-He already is. Mike Biggest Penguin Hater of All Time Milbury said live in last nights game Crosby is without question a Top 5 player All Time right now if he retired today. Ive got him top 3 with Wayne and Mario.
Crosby leapfrogs Lemieux in all-time playoff points
- Thread starter Nadal On Clay
- Start date
-He already is. Mike Biggest Penguin Hater of All Time Milbury said live in last nights game Crosby is without question a Top 5 player All Time right now if he retired today. Ive got him top 3 with Wayne and Mario.
Bar Down
Bar Mexico
Gordie Howe would have a heart attack just trying to strip Crosby of the puck. Your stances are hilariously dinosaur-esque.
Sentinel
Registered User
Sentinel
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Would that be before or after he knocked Crosby out with a single blow to the head? After all, Sid was made of glass his first few years in the league.
Your stance is kindergarten lite.
harmonica
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100% agreement from a personal standpoint. I am more referencing a consensus that he is a top tiered player of all time. I don't think we are anywhere close to that, especially on these forums. However, when all is said and done, there is no doubt in my mind that he will be.
Bar Down
Bar Mexico
“Headshots = best player”
-You, just now.
I have finally found a living, breathing caveman.
-I dont care about regular season stats. And every Vezina winner came out of the East in the last 10 years. And most of them lost to the Penguins. Tom Barraso has a Vezina. He's also a hall of famer. And no sane Penguin fan would take Barraso over Murray or Fleury
harmonica
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The thing is, nobody dominates like that anymore and all indicators are that nobody ever will again. But that doesn't take away from how skilled high end players are today, it just points to how the game has evolved and that there is more parity among players. Nobody will ever score like Wayne or Mario ever again, but they don't necessarily need to in order to be considered one of the greatest ever.
Sentinel
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harmonica
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Sid's injury problems didn't start occurring until his 6th season and they haven't been an issue for the past five. You clearly seem to have this fantasy bias view of him.
Sentinel
Registered User
So if you don't care about regular season stats, (1) doesnt mean players' value is not determined by them to a large degree and (2) you better not list Crosby anywhere near the Top 10, because even with his both (weak) Conn Smythes, he did not even lead his team in points in each of the three Cup runs.
-Era Adjusted Stats. Best metric ever invented. If the rules change in 5 years, 10 years, 50 years, Ill always go back to this. I wonder how many people that post on this forum know the rink sizes were not even the same size in the olden days. The game today in comparison to the 50's or the 80's is like comparing the 1500's without planes, cars, and phones to today. Its not even the same game. Thats why I always said anything before 1990 and worldwide expansion of players is the old age Canadian NHL. Post 1990 is New Age.
Sentinel
Registered User
Alright, kiddies. I believe I wasted enough time here and made my point enough times. The stats and the awards are all there in plain sight. Good night.
Bar Down
Bar Mexico
I didn’t hear a rebuttal to your encouragement of head hunting. If that’s really your stance, you’re a disgrace.
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harmonica
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I see your only award and raise you an only award I care about "Phil-ed" with hot dogs.
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GordieHowsUrBreath
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is his name still on the cup?
i notice red wing fans especially hate seeing any praise for crosby, all their success and they still hurt from 2009
Son Goku
henlo u stinky egg
Patrick Roy, and Brodeur didn't have great teams? Lidstrom? Chelios? Niedermayer? Pronger? All had great teams.
Sounds like someone is a bit insecure here.
It's great that Howe has a good defensive rep among his peers like Wayne and Mario and other forwards in the Top Ten but "2-way" and "complete" are subjective terms and this hardly means that his defensive game is Top Ten all-time like his offensive game is.
Crosby is very good defensively, and has played more of a 2-way role than an offensive one for awhile now. He certainly can be considered the most complete player among the top 5 offensive forwards in the league.
As far as I am concerned, their offensive #'s should be the primary metric to compare.
To clarify, I said Crosby is starting to put together a resume that could put him closer to the Big 4 than any other player. Him staying in the conversation for best player is an absolute must in order to do so and/or a playoff resume that is closer to Wayne's than any other player. Both of these things are not off the table for Crosby.
I think that:
- In order for Sid to lock the #5 all time requires:
One dominant reg season still, i.e. at least one major award Hart/Art/Lindsay
PPG until he is 35ish, and then consistent seasons until he finishes.
1-2 cup runs, but that is not a necessity, as he qualifies as one of the best playoff performers ever with 4 Smyther worthy runs, 4 finals, 2 Smythes+3cups and will take a top5 place in all time playoff scoring eventually.
Thats basically it.
- In order for Sid to have a chance to beat Howe, Orr or Mario:
2-3 dominant reg seasons, Hart+Art+Lindsay combo.
PPG until he retires, and needs to play until he is 40ish.
Playoffs, see above.
He is not beating Wayne in any scenario.
- In order for Sid to lock the #5 all time requires:
One dominant reg season still, i.e. at least one major award Hart/Art/Lindsay
PPG until he is 35ish, and then consistent seasons until he finishes.
1-2 cup runs, but that is not a necessity, as he qualifies as one of the best playoff performers ever with 4 Smyther worthy runs, 4 finals, 2 Smythes+3cups and will take a top5 place in all time playoff scoring eventually.
Thats basically it.
- In order for Sid to have a chance to beat Howe, Orr or Mario:
2-3 dominant reg seasons, Hart+Art+Lindsay combo.
PPG until he retires, and needs to play until he is 40ish.
Playoffs, see above.
He is not beating Wayne in any scenario.
madinsomniac
Registered User
Orr is absolutely worthy of being rated above Crosby. There is no question Mario, Gretzky and Orr are the three best of all time.
Im a fan of Howe. I think he is on par with those three... I also understand all the arguments against him being in that tier but being the best of the second tier... I lean more to him being the clear #4 of all time with a dropoff to the next level...
Crosby is the best of his era... he is definitely below the big 3 maybe on par with Howe... he is better than the second tier super super stars like Jagr and Yzerman though
It doesn't help Crosby that the most physically talented player in Crosby's prime played on the team with him, and the chief rival for dominance in this era was a winger who played on a team that chronically choked in the playoffs...
Im a fan of Howe. I think he is on par with those three... I also understand all the arguments against him being in that tier but being the best of the second tier... I lean more to him being the clear #4 of all time with a dropoff to the next level...
Crosby is the best of his era... he is definitely below the big 3 maybe on par with Howe... he is better than the second tier super super stars like Jagr and Yzerman though
It doesn't help Crosby that the most physically talented player in Crosby's prime played on the team with him, and the chief rival for dominance in this era was a winger who played on a team that chronically choked in the playoffs...
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Of course it is, the last time he won the cup was with the Devils in 2000.
Edit: I don't care about the Dead Things fans at all but if they still really are, it's just funny to me.
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UnderratedBrooks44
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Love Sid here, but you're living too much in the moment off of a record it took him about 45 games longer than Lemieux to accomplish. Sid is great. I think he's the greatest player of the last 20 years at worst, and somewhere among the best players of all time. That's nothing to sneeze at. However, to get any more specific than that is incredibly difficult, especially if you're arguing with someone (not me) who saw Bobby Orr, etc. play.
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