OT: Coronavirus XXXVIII: Variants, the Debbie Downer to Getting to Herd Immunity?

[Little Fury]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. How many opioid deaths?

Why don't you show your work and tell me.

Never mind the fact that you cherry picked a country with minimal interventions.

So show me a different country.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Remember how the lockdowns were supposed to be more damaging than the disease because of the increase in suicides?

Turns out there were fewer deaths by suicide in the US in 2020 than in the three previous years.

So now the only reason lockdowns are more damaging is because of raw suicide numbers? Did anyone ever claim such a thing? The damaging effects of lockdowns are countless.

First, Americans were barely locked down compared to Canadians, but somehow you derive a lock down doesn't affect suicides? That's your conclusion from this data?



Of course Opioid deaths are not suicide, just accidents. Drug overdoses, accidents. Actually, strange (unexplainable) injuries (self-harm) has also increased.

'Dealing with a lot:' Suicide crisis calls mount during COVID-19 pandemic

One in 10 Canadians say they’ve contemplated suicide since the pandemic began

There is a bit of a delay as well.

Suicides up sharply on Toronto subway during pandemic

Then there is the temporary drop.

Colby Cosh: Suicides are down during COVID — and there's good reason for that | National Post

 

[Raab]

Why don't you show your work and tell me.



So show me a different country.

See here: Provisional weekly death counts: Interactive tool

 

[MaxR11]

Lies, damn lies, and statistics. How many opioid deaths? Never mind the fact that you cherry picked a country with minimal interventions.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So now the only reason lockdowns are more damaging is because of raw suicide numbers? Did anyone ever claim such a thing? The damaging effects of lockdowns are countless.

First, Americans were barely locked down compared to Canadians, but somehow you derive a lock down doesn't affect suicides? That's your conclusion from this data?



Of course Opioid deaths are not suicide, just accidents. Drug overdoses, accidents. Actually, strange (unexplainable) injuries (self-harm) has also increased.

'Dealing with a lot:' Suicide crisis calls mount during COVID-19 pandemic

One in 10 Canadians say they’ve contemplated suicide since the pandemic began

There is a bit of a delay as well.

Suicides up sharply on Toronto subway during pandemic

Then there is the temporary drop.

Colby Cosh: Suicides are down during COVID — and there's good reason for that | National Post

Opioid OD is a heavily "supply side" dynamic that is causing most of the upticks in drug overdoses. This has always been the relationship and the advent of cheaper and more powerful opioids is what has caused the massive increase in these deaths for over 10 yrs which preceded the pandemic and that led to EXPONENTIAL growth in opioid deaths.

Its the supply side that needs to be focused on and I have no trouble with the death penalty for those that are mass dealing/manufacturing these illicit drugs. These people are terrorists. They should be dealt with in the most severe means.

Address the supply side and the accidental deaths go down to normative levels. It is not a pandemic specific issue. Supply and price basically explain the data.

The opioid mortality epidemic in North America: do we understand the supply side dynamics of this unprecedented crisis? | Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy | Full Text (biomedcentral.com)

The findings of the above exhaustive review of the research is that we are spending nearly all the resource addressing demand side rather than supply side, which is not addressing the problem. Get rid of the illicit drugs and anybody involved in trafficking/manufacturing the same.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Opioid OD is a heavily "supply side" dynamic that is causing most of the upticks in drug overdoses. This has always been the relationship and the advent of cheaper and more powerful opioids is what has caused the massive increase in these deaths for over 10 yrs.

Its the supply side that needs to be focused on and I have no trouble with the death penalty for those that are mass dealing/manufacturing these illicit drugs. These people are terrorists. They should be dealt with in the most severe means.

Address the supply side and the accidental deaths go down to normative levels. It is not a pandemic specific issue. Supply and price basically explain the data.

The opioid mortality epidemic in North America: do we understand the supply side dynamics of this unprecedented crisis? | Substance Abuse Treatment, Prevention, and Policy | Full Text (biomedcentral.com)

The findings of the above exhaustive review of the research is that we are spending nearly all the resource addressing demand side rather than supply side, which is not addressing the problem. Get rid of the illicit drugs and anybody involved in trafficking/manufacturing the same.

There have always been ways to die by overdose and those drugs were always readily available to those who wanted them. Opioids are the choice of suicide by drugs right now.

To say it is a supply issue is simply not true. The supply certainly has not increased dramatically during Covid, but the numbers of deaths have in these regions.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There have always been ways to die by overdose and those drugs were always readily available to those who wanted them. Opioids are the choice of suicide by drugs right now.

To say it is a supply issue is simply not true. The supply certainly has not increased dramatically during Covid, but the numbers of deaths have in these regions.

It absolutely IS a supply side issue as the review of studies I just posted Shows, yes, as well the illicit supply of Fentanyl, Carfentanyl has of course increased over the last 10yrs and this having horrific effects in any region that is seeing the influx of the lethal illicit product.

Further, when Oxy or Fentanyl, the same products were more heavily prescribed the same patterns were seen. Jurisdictions that firmly address these supply side dynamic issues see resolution of the problem. Jurisdictions that focus on demand side programs do little but have short term effects. For one explanation of the rise in such deaths during the pandemic is that injection sites are generally less tenable during a global pandemic.

They expose everybody to contact infection risks of Covid and so that users were less willing to use them. its a known dynamic that while injection sites help reduce per use risks as long as the injection is taking place onsite, they do nothing to STOP use or prevent OD's of same users AWAY from injection sites. So that probably what occurred over the last year is a lot of people that had ongoing difficulty with OD's were successful, away from injection sites. Some users have been *saved*40-50 times with Nalaxone kits. The drug injection issue continues.

What happened during Covid is increased supply, cheaper supply, more people with time to use, and money (Cerb and other) to buy drugs with. A fairly lethal combination

In anycase the INCREASE in deaths due to accident is a very small fraction of the overall Covid deaths. Which kind of moots your point.

 

[Nostradumbass]

See here: Provisional weekly death counts: Interactive tool

View attachment 417634

Well >300 of those deaths are from COVID...

 

[McGoMcD]

It absolutely IS a supply side issue as the review of studies I just posted Shows, yes, as well the illicit supply of Fentanyl, Carfentanyl has of course increased over the last 10yrs and this having horrific effects in any region that is seeing the influx of the lethal illicit product.

Further, when Oxy or Fentanyl, the same products were more heavily prescribed the same patterns were seen. Jurisdictions that firmly address these supply side dynamic issues see resolution of the problem. Jurisdictions that focus on demand side programs do little but have short term effects. For one explanation of the rise in such deaths during the pandemic is that injection sites are generally less tenable during a global pandemic.

They expose everybody to contact infection risks of Covid and so that users were less willing to use them. its a known dynamic that while injection sites help reduce per use risks as long as the injection is taking place onsite, they do nothing to STOP use or prevent OD's of same users AWAY from injection sites. So that probably what occurred over the last year is a lot of people that had ongoing difficulty with OD's were successful, away from injection sites. Some users have been *saved*40-50 times with Nalaxone kits. The drug injection issue continues.

What happened during Covid is increased supply, cheaper supply, more people with time to use, and money (Cerb and other) to buy drugs with. A fairly lethal combination

In anycase the INCREASE in deaths due to accident is a very small fraction of the overall Covid deaths. Which kind of moots your point.

Meh, the problem with this logic is suddenly the only thing that matters is lives. The important point is not so much how many died as what it signifies. Increases in drug over doses and sucides mask the much bigger problem with is mental health. That lockdown has been a mental health nightmare. Many will be suffering the effects for a long time. Many kids will never fully recover.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

It absolutely IS a supply side issue as the review of studies I just posted Shows, yes, as well the illicit supply of Fentanyl, Carfentanyl has of course increased over the last 10yrs and this having horrific effects in any region that is seeing the influx of the lethal illicit product.

Further, when Oxy or Fentanyl, the same products were more heavily prescribed the same patterns were seen. Jurisdictions that firmly address these supply side dynamic issues see resolution of the problem. Jurisdictions that focus on demand side programs do little but have short term effects. For one explanation of the rise in such deaths during the pandemic is that injection sites are generally less tenable during a global pandemic.

They expose everybody to contact infection risks of Covid and so that users were less willing to use them. its a known dynamic that while injection sites help reduce per use risks as long as the injection is taking place onsite, they do nothing to STOP use or prevent OD's of same users AWAY from injection sites. So that probably what occurred over the last year is a lot of people that had ongoing difficulty with OD's were successful, away from injection sites. Some users have been *saved*40-50 times with Nalaxone kits. The drug injection issue continues.

What happened during Covid is increased supply, cheaper supply, more people with time to use, and money (Cerb and other) to buy drugs with. A fairly lethal combination

In anycase the INCREASE in deaths due to accident is a very small fraction of the overall Covid deaths. Which kind of moots your point.

You dance around the subject. Then you make my point while telling me it is moot.

Your ten year numbers are inconsequential. The supply has not increased since Covid. The deaths have dramatically. They are not all accidents. That was my point and you just admitted it at the end while arguing against it at the beginning. They are people intentionally taking their lives. Depression, anxieties, literally every bad emotion is emerging from lockdowns (you have links and personal accounts repeatedly in this thread) yet you decide OD is simply a supply issue?

They go to the distress lines, try to tell people, then give up and take something to end it. Opioids are the drug of choice for that now obviously. Of course according to the number crunchers, none of them are considered suicides and you accept that. Those numbers counted as they are help support the restrictions in place. See, everyone is just fine. Those deaths have nothing to do with what we are doing to society.