OT: Coronavirus XXXVIII: Variants, the Debbie Downer to Getting to Herd Immunity?

[Bryanbryoil]

Some talk that newer variants may result in lower efficacy from vaccines and that early infections by the oldest strains may not provide immunity.

Click to read more...

 

[HabsAddict]

Keep your eyes in the South African varient. It may make us wish for the good old days of 2020.

 

[LaGu]

I think most of have, for a while now. AZ may not work very well on it, but they are already in the process of developing a booster shot which will (which was already posted in the previous thread). Pfizer/Biotech has already said that they are not worried at all since 1) their vaccine seems to work against the SA variant (although more study needed) and 2) they can modify it in a very short time (15 days). Moderna said the same. J&J was tested against the SA variant with good results and as we speak they are shipping in doses to South Africa.

 

[bellagiobob]

Make up your bloody mind already.

 

[Paperbagofglory]

Conspiracy lovers have come to the conclusion that the lockdowns wont end till late 2022 until everyone has been coerced into taking a shot. At this point its hard to figure out whos crazier, them or the people in charge. It used to be a 80/20 split as far as trust in the system. Now leadership incompetence and corruption are converting a lot more people. The altetnative news sources arent the biggest culprit. Our elected officials are.

 

[LaGu]

Conspiracy lovers have come to the conclusion that the lockdowns wont end till late 2022 until everyone has been coerced into taking a shot. At this point its hard to figure out whos crazier, them or the people in charge. It used to be a 80/20 split as far as trust in the system. Now leadership incompetence and corruption are converting a lot more people. The altetnative news sources arent the biggest culprit. Our elected officials are.

I think people are taking the "we are going to have to live with this for the coming years" too literally.
We are going to live with this, but in the same way as we live with many other deceases which are not erdicated. I doubt the everyday person in Canada, Sweden or Italy will see restrictions that affect their lives in any way. You are probably going to see the occasional cluster/outbreak in our countries as well, but it will mostly be noise and won't have society wide effects. More likely is that people travelling from certain places around the world where this is still going on may need to bring proof of vaccination. More or less how it works today with the Yellow Fever.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Make up your bloody mind already.

One wonders if this is really anything but subterfuge about the AZ vaccine being a lower cost rollout. Seems strange. No information at all, but NY times headlines.

In anycase, if this is a valid concern how helpful is it for the officials releasing this *information* and concern after 100M doses have been administered over multiple months?

I share the frustration over how much uncertainty is propagated.

In anycase this, also recent.

AstraZeneca: US data shows vaccine effective for all adults (apnews.com)

Its my tendency to look at on the ground results. The AZ vaccine rollout in UK is pronounced and the pandemic is currently very limited there. Rate of new infections far less than Canada.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I think most of have, for a while now. AZ may not work very well on it, but they are already in the process of developing a booster shot which will (which was already posted in the previous thread). Pfizer/Biotech has already said that they are not worried at all since 1) their vaccine seems to work against the SA variant (although more study needed) and 2) they can modify it in a very short time (15 days). Moderna said the same. J&J was tested against the SA variant with good results and as we speak they are shipping in doses to South Africa.

Again unfortunate information is so delayed. They were studying the AZ effects on South African variant in 2020. We're seeing results months later after some less detailed information prior.

We had known that AZ was effective against Wild covid and Uk Variant, which are the dominant strains. I banked on that, and that we have essentially around a handful of active SA Variants in the whole province and those numbers don't seem to be increasing at all. I mean for the longest time Edmonton had 2 cases of SA and now we have 3. One wonders if the first 2 are already resolved. If the SA variant is just as contagious how come in vast majority of countries numbers of this variant are still so low?

Anyway consumers shouldn't be faced with all this conflicting information every day. I mean this is not brand preference and choosing Coke or Pepsi on taste. its about saving lives.

Nobody should be put into a position where you're wondering whether you made the wrong decision based on how poor the rollout of information is. Even at the Vaccine clinic they don't have a stitch of info not seen online. health authorities tend to look at Vaccines as one brand (even though they monitor which one you get)

I would have picked Johnsons if it was available. Oh well, One shot Vaccine in arm, we'll see what unfolds.

 

[LaGu]

Make up your bloody mind already.

I understand that the company will never give up, but at some point the US needs to cut their losses and send AZ on their way.

Considering this last piece of controversy I don't see any reason why the US could not simply "loan" all of their stockpiled AZ doses to Canada, Mexico and other nations. Already in February there was an opinion piece basically asking why to bother seeing as they have already shored up more than enough of Pfizer, Moderna and J&J to vaccinate all of their citizens before summer. The introduction of AZ on the market will not make that much of a difference, but it can make a difference in other places.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I understand that the company will never give up, but at some point the US needs to cut their losses and send AZ on their way.

Considering this last piece of controversy I don't see any reason why the US could not simply "loan" all of their stockpiled AZ doses to Canada, Mexico and other nations. Already in February there was an opinion piece basically asking why to bother seeing as they have already shored up more than enough of Pfizer, Moderna and J&J to vaccinate all of their citizens before summer. The introduction of AZ on the market will not make that much of a difference, but it can make a difference in other places.

The vaccines might be close to expiry dates in anycase. Might be a moot point. Agreed that in the US the introduction of AZ won't make much difference but it has around the world. US is in the fairly unique position of having access to a large amount of vaccines. Canadians don't get this pipeline either..

Over here its take what you can get. Or pound sand and wait for months.

But the US like any jurisdiction would have some interest in AZ vaccine because of appreciably lower costs and ease of administration. (normal refrigeration). Theres a lot of places in the US where the AZ would be easier to roll out.

 

[LaGu]

Again unfortunate information is so delayed. They were studying the AZ effects on South African variant in 2020. We're seeing results months later after some less detailed information prior.

We had known that AZ was effective against Wild covid and Uk Variant, which are the dominant strains. I banked on that, and that we have essentially around a handful of active SA Variants in the whole province and those numbers don't seem to be increasing at all. I mean for the longest time Edmonton had 2 cases of SA and now we have 3. One wonders if the first 2 are already resolved. If the SA variant is just as contagious how come in vast majority of countries numbers of this variant are still so low?

Anyway consumers shouldn't be faced with all this conflicting information every day. I mean this is not brand preference and choosing Coke or Pepsi on taste. its about saving lives.

Nobody should be put into a position where you're wondering whether you made the wrong decision based on how poor the rollout of information is. Even at the Vaccine clinic they don't have a stitch of info not seen online. health authorities tend to look at Vaccines as one brand (even though they monitor which one you get)

I would have picked Johnsons if it was available. Oh well, One shot Vaccine in arm, we'll see what unfolds.

I don't really know anymore, over here we have the UK, Brazil and South Africa variants by now, but it is the UK one that is clearly taking over. It was at 55% of all cases the other week, I am guessing a bit more now. It is the same for many countries in Europe right now. I know in Sweden they have had cluster outbreaks with the South African variant, but I guess it is too soon to see if it will start spreading widely. For now it has been limited to a few towns/places. In general in Sweden as well it is the UK variant that is pushing this wave.

I would definitely go with J&J, but to be frank with you that is mainly based on it being a 1 shot instead of 2
We won't be able to chose though, at least not when booking. Once there we are allowed to refuse the dose if we don't want that specific brand, then they will put you back in line with a delay of a month or so if I have understood correctly.

 

[Fourier]

The vaccines might be close to expiry dates in anycase. Might be a moot point. Agreed that in the US the introduction of AZ won't make much difference but it has around the world. US is in the fairly unique position of having access to a large amount of vaccines. Canadians don't get this pipeline either..

Over here its take what you can get. Or pound sand and wait for months.

But the US like any jurisdiction would have some interest in AZ vaccine because of appreciably lower costs and ease of administration. (normal refrigeration). Theres a lot of places in the US where the AZ would be easier to roll out.

The US has basically poisoned the AZ vaccine to its population. There is enough hesitancy there already that introducing the AZ vaccine now would be counter productive. They would be far better off releasing their supply to other countries. You are correct that there are places where it woudl be easier to role out. But it would be politically risky to look like you were choosing groups to get "the bad vaccine".

 

[fuswald]

Once the vaccines are less in demand i would think the corporate propaganda would kick in (if it hasn't already) where they smear the competition or leak stuff to media. This is big money and likely the big boys are good at it.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Keep your eyes in the South African varient. It may make us wish for the good old days of 2020.

This is why I am leaning towards the J&J vaccine.

 

[doulos]

I'd take AZ in a heartbeat. I have zero concerns after looking at the evidence.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I'd take AZ in a heartbeat. I have zero concerns after looking at the evidence.

Was it AZ that only had a 25% efficacy against the SA strain or was that a different vaccine?

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[doulos]

Was it AZ that only had a 25% efficacy against the SA strain or was that a different vaccine?

I believe that was for mild to moderate symptoms, but the results were inconclusive (when last I checked) regarding serious symptoms. I don't believe the study was even peer reviewed last I checked, and used some interesting data sets for the patients.

When balancing risks, I would certainly take the AZ shot with no hesitation.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Was it AZ that only had a 25% efficacy against the SA strain or was that a different vaccine?

A lot of variables are involved but yes, AZ results are poor against SA strain as far as not catching it. But of the trials conducted no vaccinated became seriously ill. So its still possible that AZ is mitigating effects of SA. It certainly does with Wild or UK variant.

I would take AZ vaccine without hesitation, oh wait, we did..

Still liking bananas a whole lot today. Not sure whats up with that..

 

[Dorian2]

I'd personally be very cautious of this one due to past experience when they came out with the ones for flu. Wife ended up in hospital with pneumonia.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

From March 11th. People predicted at the time how numbers would rise in Alberta. Got a sniffle? Test! Thought you were just sick? Get to the Hospital. It's really Covid.


COVID-19: Nearly a million rapid testing kits headed to seniors facilities, businesses, schools as part of Alberta's expanded effort | Edmonton Journal

 

[HabsAddict]

I asked my doctor, who is highly informed on it, he said that he hasn't found a conclusive study either way if the AZ prevents severe cases from the SA varient.

Also note that he said.....if you don't have a choice, take the AZ.

So unless we know when and how many of the Johnson are coming in, it may be a better option to take the AZ now then get picked off by the UK varient which is more infective.

If you work with people or high exposure, do you want to wait? It may be months away.

Just my opinion....

EDIT....you're a fool if you ease up on safety protocals even after the vaccine. The SA varient is here and hoping stupid people do stupid things for it to live on.

 

[bellagiobob]

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Trial looking at mixing-and-matching different COVID vaccines could be game-changer

"...new study in the U.K., there is no placebo. It's not a question of whether they've had a shot, but which one — or rather, which two."

 

[ThePhoenixx]

25 blood clots out of 22 million shots is the UK findings. I gather those 25 had major issues.

I'm no get-out-and-get-that-thing, and I was the first here to post links on AstraZeneca concerns, but it only has a 0.00000113636% chance of harming you.