Claude Julien, Marc Bergevin incredibly Pigheaded

[JLP]

The Carey Price phone is the EMERGENCY phone - at least, it used to be. Now it's the TANK COMMANDER phone

Speaking of emergencies: reminds me of this old 'shoop

While the rest of the squad suffered and the rest of the league laughed, Marc Bergevin masterminded a tremendous improvement right where it matters most, in the gars d'cheznous category: Desharnais -> Danault -> Drouin. So he's doin his job lol.

 

[Bring Bak Damphousse]

.Price is not going to improve from what you see now.....its only going to get worse

Yeah we get it, he’s done, in a single year he’s gone from a consensus top 5 goalie to little more than a fringe starter. I’ve seen this post from you almost word for word a few times. Is the contract horrible? f*** yeah, is he ever going to win another vezina? probably not, but to claim the Price were seeing now is the new price and he’s only going to get worse is premature. This year everything has gone wrong, our defence is amongst the worst assembled D squads I’ve ever seen, and I remember the Laflamme days. But Players have off years, often after signing new contracts, I’m confident that he’ll work at it over the summer and while he probably wont reach his hart season caliber again I see no reason to believe he wont come back as one of the top goalies in the nhl.

 

[Tourist]

they never will, they think the smart thing to do is tu play Galchenyuk at a position he is even less productive than at C...

I get it though, with an offense as potent as the Habs, they can clearly waste some of if for... for some reason.

Galchenyuk's offense is not wasted on the wing when he's fit and confident. Good teams do not use a player of Galchenyuk's profile (great puck skills with bad combination of skating/hockey IQ) as their top 2 center. Bad idea, especially when games start to matter more.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Let's move on from the language debate folks...

 

[Laurentide]

Everything went south...
Not hard to see why Canadian Clubs are shafted. Our People go. Players, Coaches, Brains, Scouts.
This league needs to take a long hard look at a global taxation bringing equality to all franchises across the board for all hockey personnel.
If I owned a Canadian team I would want it in the next CBA.

Agreed. If the salary cap is supposed to level the playing field then it needs to take into account how taxation rates in one jurisdiction can give teams unfair spending advantages over teams in higher taxed jurisdictions. There needs to be a formula in place which will allow teams in tax hell holes like Montreal to overspend on the cap (both on a team and individual player basis) to make up for the disparity. Otherwise you don't have a level playing field.

I recall a few years back when the Habs lost out on getting Briere even though they had offered him more money on paper. Marinaro had a tax expert on as a guest and this guy explained how Briere would be able to pocket more of his money after taxes than the so-called "higher" offer that the Habs made. Even though the Habs' offer looked better on paper, the Flyers were able to offer Briere less and Briere was still able to pocket around $1 million more than he would have had he played in Montreal. Those kind of disadvantages are too big to ignore but the NHL seems content to have equality in principle rather than equality in practice. When a player in the US can join a fancy country club to play golf and write off the cost of his high five or low six figure membership fee on his taxes as a "health expense" while players in Canada have no such loopholes it's a problem.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Galchenyuk's offense is not wasted on the wing when he's fit and confident. Good teams do not use a player of Galchenyuk's profile (great puck skills with bad combination of skating/hockey IQ) as their top 2 center. Bad idea, especially when games start to matter more.

it is when you consider he's less productive at wing then at C.

he's apparently on a good streak right now ?? meh, not as productive as his good streak with Pacioretty or with Radulov last season. That's OK though, Habs offense is good enough as it is. Scoring more goals would not help much, it's not like Habs are giving that many anyway...


when games matter more ?? sure, maybe in two or three years...

 

[Price is Wright]

Le Canadien et les médias : un mariage forcé qui pourrait être plus heureux | ICI.Radio-Canada.ca

Anybody read this? That's some hardcore stuff.

The article states that Bergevin and Therrien met with the french speaking players of the team, shortly after MB became the GM, and warned them that if they ever leaked any info to the press, they'd be traded.

Makes sense, since the leaks happened when Briere came aboard a year after that, and he was (allegedly) leaking to Eklund. That's why Eklund used to have lots of Philly info, and his Montreal info suddenly increased for the year Briere was here.

Even funnier that his leaks weren't to the French media but the smelly internet rumour monger.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I'm extremely tolerant of dissenting opinions. That's why we're here isn't it?

What isn't Bergevin's fault? The demonstrably inferior lineup? The impotent management? The failure to address the holes at centre for 6 years?

Whether or not you want to quibble about language nuances or not, if you don't admit he's at fault, you must at least agree it's his responsibility.

Julien said he wanted to play Galchenyuk at centre. Bergevin went to the press and said he's not a centre. We do know the reason. You just won't accept it.

Julien did not say he wanted to play Galchenyuk at center. He said the option is on the table but it’s up to how Galchenyuk can prove he can be a responsibile center

None us know what’s going on behind the scenes so you can create speculation that may or may not be correct. Others can create other speculations as well.

I think most of us agree it’s strange that we have not tried Galchenyuk at center since the season was lost a long time ago. Who’s fault? I don’t know

 

[nhlfan9191]

Julien did not say he wanted to play Galchenyuk at center. He said the option is on the table but it’s up to how Galchenyuk can prove he can be a responsibile center

None us know what’s going on behind the scenes so you can create speculation that may or may not be correct. Others can create other speculations as well.

I think most of us agree it’s strange that we have not tried Galchenyuk at center since the season was lost a long time ago. Who’s fault? I don’t know

You are aware it’s the fans like you that Bergevin and his team prey on with secrecy, right? They think they can fool the mass majority by just keeping everything quiet and close to them but what they don’t understand is they’re incredibly sloppy when doing so and leave enough evidence around to paint an excellent picture of what’s going on. Not shady at all to you that Julien made those comments and Bergevin later contradicts them with his own and what do you know, Julien mysteriously wont play Galchenyuk over a player like DeLaRose in nothing games? Your argument is “well you can’t prove anything because it never came directly out of his mouth!” and that’s exactly the way they want the fans to think. Unfortunately for them, a large chunk of the fanbase isn’t buying it anymore.

 

[groovejuice]

Julien did not say he wanted to play Galchenyuk at center. He said the option is on the table but it’s up to how Galchenyuk can prove he can be a responsibile center

None us know what’s going on behind the scenes so you can create speculation that may or may not be correct. Others can create other speculations as well.

I think most of us agree it’s strange that we have not tried Galchenyuk at center since the season was lost a long time ago. Who’s fault? I don’t know

Julien clearly implied it to the media. It's not really in doubt considering the historical failure to the beginning of the season. Even the usually pro-Bergevin media has come out clearly saying he is a control freak of epic proportions and intrudes into the coach's realm regularly.

Sometimes common sense is required in cases of overwhelming evidence.

 

[Runner77]

Julien clearly implied it to the media. It's not really in doubt considering the historical failure to the beginning of the season. Even the usually pro-Bergevin media has come out clearly saying he is a control freak of epic proportions and intrudes into the coach's realm regularly.

Sometimes common sense is required in cases of overwhelming evidence.

Reality is we're never going to know exactly what goes on behind the scenes. To use that as a reason not to connect obvious dots, is a red herring. Where there are enough data points to allow for the existence of a trendline, refuting the trendline is not the best or most logical course of action.

 

[nyhabsfan]

You trade our pathetic captain for a #2 center and a A prospect. You sign a UFA center like Stastny for 2 years and ACTUALLY start developing real top 6 centers like Poeling and hopefully Evans. Then you take at least 2 of our 4 second round picks to draft BY POSITION which is CENTER.

 

[Miller Time]

80

51

18

11

113

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

80

28

39

13

69

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The GM of one of those teams valued PK over Weber...

Pigheaded seems like too much of an insult to pigs when applied to bergeBer

 

[Tourist]

it is when you consider he's less productive at wing then at C.

he's apparently on a good streak right now ?? meh, not as productive as his good streak with Pacioretty or with Radulov last season. That's OK though, Habs offense is good enough as it is. Scoring more goals would not help much, it's not like Habs are giving that many anyway...


when games matter more ?? sure, maybe in two or three years...

When I look at Galchenyuk's strenghts: shooting, puck handling and passing, I see nothing that makes me believe he can use these tools better at center than wing (or vice versa for that matter). Many east/west type wingers use these tools to create chances from anywhere once they cross the blue line. The last few games show this. If he can play like this over a full season he'll get excellent point totals.

As for stats, since two years ago when he fined tuned his shot (his greatest strength now), I bet there's not much difference when you somehow factor in health, quality of teammates, usage etc. For example, playing heavily sheltered minutes with Pacioretty and Radulov is not the same as playing less sheltered minutes with De La Rose and Lehkonen.

There is more to the game then point totals. Peak Desharnais had some excellent point streaks, yet we all know it was a bad idea to use him as a top 2 center, especially in the playoffs, due to his own massive flaws.

When I look at good teams around the league for the past few years, I don't see any that use a player with poor skating/hockey IQ as their top 2 center. The reason is simple. Centers need to cover more surface area and the surface area they cover is more critical. To cover adequately more surface area it's better if you're a good skater and/or if you are good at reading the play; the objective being to be in the right position. Galchenyuk scores poorly in those facets of the game, unfortunately. I wish he didn't because it would solve a big problem with the team but he is what he is.

Finally, yes, the Habs offense is not good as it is and clearly needs an upgrade.

 

[Kimota]

Anyone else heard or read what Martin Leclerc revealed yesterday? I read it online but he said that when MB first arrived, he and MT sat in a room with all the Quebec players and told them that if they ever release any inside info to the journalists, they'd be traded without warning. Leclerc apparently got this info from someone in the room (I imagine a player who no longer is in the org). He said the players were very confused by this because they weren't the only ones who had a relationship with the reporters and aren't the only ones who can give them inside info.

I don't know how much truth there is to this, but Leclerc isn't someone to just come out and say anything for shock value. He's one of the good ones. It doesn't mean he's got the right info. But he doesn't get careless with the info he puts out.

A great to make your hometown players feel like home. Good God.

 

[ECWHSWI]

When I look at Galchenyuk's strenghts: shooting, puck handling and passing, I see nothing that makes me believe he can use these tools better at center than wing (or vice versa for that matter). Many east/west type wingers use these tools to create chances from anywhere once they cross the blue line. The last few games show this. If he can play like this over a full season he'll get excellent point totals.

As for stats, since two years ago when he fined tuned his shot (his greatest strength now), I bet there's not much difference when you somehow factor in health, quality of teammates, usage etc. For example, playing heavily sheltered minutes with Pacioretty and Radulov is not the same as playing less sheltered minutes with De La Rose and Lehkonen.

There is more to the game then point totals. Peak Desharnais had some excellent point streaks, yet we all know it was a bad idea to use him as a top 2 center, especially in the playoffs, due to his own massive flaws.

When I look at good teams around the league for the past few years, I don't see any that use a player with poor skating/hockey IQ as their top 2 center. The reason is simple. Centers need to cover more surface area and the surface area they cover is more critical. To cover adequately more surface area it's better if you're a good skater and/or if you are good at reading the play; the objective being to be in the right position. Galchenyuk scores poorly in those facets of the game, unfortunately. I wish he didn't because it would solve a big problem with the team but he is what he is.

Finally, yes, the Habs offense is not good as it is and clearly needs an upgrade.

tried at wings with DD, meh
tried at wings with Plekanec, meh
playing wings with Drouin, meh
and now playing wings with the fabulous DLR...

but yeah, he doesnt fit with the preconceived notion of how a C should play, so better keep him where he's less productive.

Have are even better playing 20 pts forward Arturi Lehkonen just as much if not more than AG...

 

[Tourist]

tried at wings with DD, meh
tried at wings with Plekanec, meh
playing wings with Drouin, meh
and now playing wings with the fabulous DLR...

but yeah, he doesnt fit with the preconceived notion of how a C should play, so better keep him where he's less productive.

Have are even better playing 20 pts forward Arturi Lehkonen just as much if not more than AG...

How Galchenyuk performed before he massively improved his shot means little now. He's a much more polished offensive player now compared to how he was when playing with Plekanec as his center years ago.

I don't think Galchenyuk's more effective offensively playing center and I've clearly explained why. I think with his specific skillset he can score points just as much from either wing or center, when fit and confident.

I also explained why I think it's important for a top C to have a good combination of skating/hockey IQ. It's not just some pre conceived notion. It just makes sense to me that is all.

He is a better player overall than Lehkonen so I would definitely try to give him more even strength/PP icetime.

 

[ECWHSWI]

How Galchenyuk performed before he massively improved his shot means little now. He's a much more polished offensive player now compared to how he was when playing with Plekanec as his center years ago.

I don't think Galchenyuk's more effective offensively playing center and I've clearly explained why. I think with his specific skillset he can score points just as much from either wing or center, when fit and confident.

I also explained why I think it's important for a top C to have a good combination of skating/hockey IQ. It's not just some pre conceived notion. It just makes sense to me that is all.

He is a better player overall than Lehkonen so I would definitely try to give him more even strength/PP icetime.

except, no one thing AG will be as good as Crosby or McDavid...

as long as he's better than DLR, or Byron who was used at C too in case you forgot), Shaw when healthy, Danault (Not as good defensively, but better offensively)...

I mean, Jacob delaRose, Paul Byron... what reason is there to use them at C over AG ?? come on now...

the reason is in the thread title.

 

[Tourist]

except, no one thing AG will be as good as Crosby or McDavid...

as long as he's better than DLR, or Byron who was used at C too in case you forgot), Shaw when healthy, Danault (Not as good defensively, but better offensively)...

I mean, Jacob delaRose, Paul Byron... what reason is there to use them at C over AG ?? come on now...

the reason is in the thread title.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Galchenyuk isn't a better center than Byron or Shaw or whatever. I also realize you don't need your top center to be Crosby/McDavid good to be competitive. I'm just saying that any team that seriously wants to compete should not use Galchenyuk as their top 2 center. Might as well stop bouncing him around and use him on the wings for good since this is where he will likely play the day he plays for a seriously competitive team.

Galchenyuk on the wing is not a problem. I really like his puck handling skills and think he can absolutely be part of a contending team. The problem clearly is the Habs lack 1, some would argue 2 top 2 centers. That is obviously on the GM.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Just to be clear, I'm not saying Galchenyuk isn't a better center than Byron or Shaw or whatever. I also realize you don't need your top center to be Crosby/McDavid good to be competitive. I'm just saying that any team that seriously wants to compete should not use Galchenyuk as their top 2 center. Might as well stop bouncing him around and him on the wings for good since this is where he will likely play the day he plays for a seriously competitive team
Galchenyuk on the wing is not a problem. I really like his puck handling skills and think he can absolutely be part of a contending team. The problem clearly is the Habs lack 1, some would argue 2 top 2 centers. That is obviously on the GM.

it is OK cause you convinced yourself Habs are better off with DLR or Byron at C than a more produtive Galchenyuk because of playstyle

in 16 games McCaron already has more faceoff taken than AG

It is also on the coach who decides to havw lesser players at C

 

[Tourist]

it is OK cause you convinced yourself Habs are better off with DLR or Byron at C than a more produtive Galchenyuk because of playstyle

in 16 games McCaron already has more faceoff taken than AG

It is also on the coach who decides to havw lesser players at C

I did not say the Habs are better off with DLR or Byron at C than Galchenyuk. You made that up. And why would I convince myself of that anyway? What a strange unfounded comment.

The qualities I value most for a top center are offensive production and skating/hockey sense. Of course other attributes matter but I believe those are the most important.

Galchenyuk is productive but has poor skating/hockey IQ. He is therefore a mediocre option for a top center role.

DLR for example has good skating/hockey sense but his production is poor, as of now at least. He is also a mediocre option for that role.

And that's the issue, all the options the coach has for the top center role (top 2 centers for that matter) right now are mediocre. That's the GM's fault.

 

[sheed36]

Rod Francis just said on TSN690 with Ray Ferraro that the Habs have used 17 players down the middle this season. Is that even accurate? They're talking about Galchenyuk not being used at center and Ferraro doesn't understand the pigheadedness and stubbornness from the Habs to not even give him another legit shot at center.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I did not say the Habs are better off with DLR or Byron at C than Galchenyuk. You made that up. And why would I convince myself of that anyway? What a strange unfounded comment.

The qualities I value most for a top center are offensive production and skating/hockey sense. Of course other attributes matter but I believe those are the most important.

Galchenyuk is productive but has poor skating/hockey IQ. He is therefore a mediocre option for a top center role.

DLR for example has good skating/hockey sense but his production is poor, as of now at least. He is also a mediocre option for that role.

And that's the issue, all the options the coach has for the top center role (top 2 centers for that matter) right now are mediocre. That's the GM's fault.

Yet when I bring that up for AG, you dismiss it by talking "skills"... when I tell you he's more productive at C, it's "yeah but he's a shooter" or something.

YOUR definition of hockey IQ please...

wrong, the coach, on his own, decided to use a player that is not even top 6 calibre to center AG, because HE decided that Galchenyuk will not be a C. NO ONE forces him to use a 4th liner in DLR there...

 

[Andrei79]

Rod Francis just said on TSN690 with Ray Ferraro that the Habs have used 17 players down the middle this season. Is that even accurate? They're talking about Galchenyuk not being used at center and Ferraro doesn't understand the pigheadedness and stubbornness from the Habs to not even give him another legit shot at center.

It's ego and spite at this point.

 

[Tourist]

Yet when I bring that up for AG, you dismiss it by talking "skills"... when I tell you he's more productive at C, it's "yeah but he's a shooter" or something.

YOUR definition of hockey IQ please...

wrong, the coach, on his own, decided to use a player that is not even top 6 calibre to center AG, because HE decided that Galchenyuk will not be a C. NO ONE forces him to use a 4th liner in DLR there...

I told you I don't believe he's more productive at C vs W when you consider the context in which he accumulated stats at either position. Moreover, I believe he should be equally productive at all 3 forward position because of the nature of his skillset.

Hockey IQ is to me is the natural ability to read plays develop, be sound positionally and quick to react.

In my mind Galchenyuk is best suited at wing so I have no problem with the coach using him at wing. DLR is best suited at center so I'm ok with the coach using him at center. DLR is obviously not a top 2 center but then again no one truly is on this team.