Claude Julien, Marc Bergevin incredibly Pigheaded

[Rapala]

To think the Habs were used to not only have the best hockey minds but everything was set up so that someone would take the job later on. They were grooming guys carefully at every positions. I remember reading a book about it how they would organizes things in the 50s and 60s.

Everything went south...
Not hard to see why Canadian Clubs are shafted. Our People go. Players, Coaches, Brains, Scouts.
This league needs to take a long hard look at a global taxation bringing equality to all franchises across the board for all hockey personnel.
If I owned a Canadian team I would want it in the next CBA.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

You mean, like RDS when they always found some whipping boy who didnt have a French name? Eller, Subban and so on?

A total fabrication from someone who is always quick to point the finger at anyone who speak French.

 

[Runner77]

Name 10 of the many players who have chosen not to play in Montreal for this specific reason. Provide your source.

Prove your assertions.

Exactly. There are none.

Now we're supposed to believe that this board wields so much power that it's scaring off certain players from playing here.

I'm all for posting the good with the bad. However, it's not our job to act like Hab propagandists, the Habs are already doing that themselves with a massive budget, captive reporters with a dubious sense of ethics and tentacles everywhere. We don't need to regurgitate what the Habs Comm. Dept. manufactures for mass consumption, we can exercise critical thought without insinuating that we have some kind of agenda where negativity is our modus operandi.

The forum is negative, some say? Well look at the team, management, ownership -- do any of them deserve credit for this season? Haven't we had enough of supporting a failed GM for 6 years? Now we're supposed to believe he's going to make it all go away in one summer, when he couldn't do it in 6 prior off seasons. Yeah, blame fans on this forum for being skeptical. That's the problem right there. It scares away UFAs, haven't you heard.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

A total fabrication from someone who is always quick to point the finger at anyone who speak French.

[mod]

And it's not a fabrication. I watched enough AC a few years back to know this is true. Others can chime in. I know @Runner77 has spoken about this too. Lemme guess, we're all lying or exagerating. There's no pro-Quebec slant on RDS? You deny any of this?

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Bye Bye JJD...
Will this be our groundbreaking reorganization?

Huh? JJD's been canned?

 

[Runner77]

And it's not a fabrication. I watched enough AC a few years back to know this is true. Others can chime in. I know @Runner77 has spoken about this too. Lemme guess, we're all lying or exagerating. There's no pro-Quebec slant on RDS? You deny any of this?

No one can deny that there is a ti-gars d'chez nous slant on AC. I can understand it to an extent, they need to fill air time and appeal to their core audience and showing a favorable bias to locals is good for their ratings.

Doesn't mean however that we shouldn't exercise critical thought in respect of their show content. Just like the time they had this outspoken separatist on AC as a guest chair filler from a month or two ago, who was spewing condescending ethno-phobic diarrhea, going as far as imitating English speakers with a bad Franco accent and doing so more than once and for such a prolonged time that the occupants of the other blue couches visibly uncomfortable and didn't know how to react. That AC allowed this type of individual to take over the show, when his views were widely known as an outspoken séparaciste, is an example amongst many about how there are certain POVs no matter how extreme, that are nonetheless allowed air time that they couldn't otherwise get elsewhere in prime time.

There are other examples, less extreme, of an innate bias, where they equate being a québécois to having a Franco name and being de souche, as you mentioned with the Torey Mitchell example. Of course, just cause they have PJ Stock on their panel, doesn't absolve them of anything. A guy like Gaston who is always there, has been known to dabble in politics disguised as sports and isn't at all shy to express a more than heavy favoritism when it comes to local players.

However, all too often, when all you're looking for are analysts to argue facts, they let their very personal biases get in the way and it ultimately almost always results in someone who isn't local, to become a convenient scapegoat. Just look at how long it took them to come around to issuing criticism about Drouin's efforts -- they coddled him until they couldn't anymore, while at the same time, "analysts" like Gaston swung a heavy bat on Galchenyuk's head, repeatedly, inferring that he couldn't be too intelligent.

 

[Rapala]

Huh? JJD's been canned?

My best guess as to our year end reorg.

 

[Rapala]

Name 10 of the many players who have chosen not to play in Montreal for this specific reason. Provide your source.

Prove your assertions.

I Agree.
The players who categorically stated they didn't want to come here just happened to be Francophones.
One of them did finally come when he was DONE.
But hey it's the fault if the discerning fan. Good and Great Players THRIVE here.
We just don't have many. Some people need to look elsewhere for the reasons we can't seem to attract talent.
I can't believe some people would try to pin that on HF'rs. They should Start with the Media in both languages for a clue.

 

[Kimota]

Julien BriseBois and Guy Boucher were in their organization at one point. How come they weren't able to hold on to BriseBois? Would he not have made a great Assistant GM? As for Boucher, not saying he would have been successful but he would have cost a lot less than the highwire act they performed to sign Julien to such a long term deal. Habs keep overpaying for the wrong people as they are shopping for them at a time of extreme need. This is all part of the poor planning that the Molson group has tolerated.

Really all Molson and his group were thinking was money and how to build condos.

 

[Perrah]

Why would the organization, want to get into a war of words or start a pissing contest with a former alumni? Especially now? It happened, and now it's over. It's a non issue at this point.

No one said to do it now that is just your assumption. I never even said to make a deal of it at all. What I said was if Bergevin was going to take one for Galchenyuk why would it be for your shitty alternate theory and not for something that would show he actually has his players backs? Why would Bergevin take one for Galchenyuk about him not wanting to play center? Who would care if Galchenyuk came out and said “I want to play wing” or “I like to play wing”?

 

[yianik]

I Agree.
The players who categorically stated they didn't want to come here just happened to be Francophones.
One of them did finally come when he was DONE.
But hey it's the fault if the discerning fan. Good and Great Players THRIVE here.
We just don't have many. Some people need to look elsewhere for the reasons we can't seem to attract talent.
I can't believe some people would try to pin that on HF'rs. They should Start with the Media in both languages for a clue.

Well another good step would be to keep the good players we have who want to stay here. PK and Markov of course come to mind.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Bye Bye JJD...
Will this be our groundbreaking reorganization?

It will be a start. He's someone who has direct contact with the players and his coachig has a direct impact on the game. So it will be a good start by canning him.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Anyone else heard or read what Martin Leclerc revealed yesterday? I read it online but he said that when MB first arrived, he and MT sat in a room with all the Quebec players and told them that if they ever release any inside info to the journalists, they'd be traded without warning. Leclerc apparently got this info from someone in the room (I imagine a player who no longer is in the org). He said the players were very confused by this because they weren't the only ones who had a relationship with the reporters and aren't the only ones who can give them inside info.

I don't know how much truth there is to this, but Leclerc isn't someone to just come out and say anything for shock value. He's one of the good ones. It doesn't mean he's got the right info. But he doesn't get careless with the info he puts out.

 

[isthatso]

Le Canadien et les médias : un mariage forcé qui pourrait être plus heureux | ICI.Radio-Canada.ca

Anybody read this? That's some hardcore stuff.

The article states that Bergevin and Therrien met with the french speaking players of the team, shortly after MB became the GM, and warned them that if they ever leaked any info to the press, they'd be traded.

« S’il y en a un qui sort quelque chose aux journalistes, on vous "trade"! Si j’en pogne un à donner une information privilégiée aux journalistes, il n’y aura même pas d’avertissement. On va vous sacrer dehors! On va vous échanger » (Marc Bergevin)

Roughly translated: ''If somebody leaks something to the press, we will trade you! If I catch one of you leaking sensible information to the journalists, there will be no warnings. We will fire your ass! We will trade you.''

« C’était spécial, se souvient un des témoins de cette rencontre. C’était d’autant plus spécial que cet avertissement ne s’adressait qu’aux francophones de l’équipe. Comme si nous étions les seuls gars du club à discuter avec les journalistes... » (Someone present at the meeting)

Roughly translated: ''It was special, said someone present at the meeting. It was even more special since this warning was made only to the french speaking players of the team. Like we were the only guys having discussions with the journalists.''

 

[WeThreeKings]

Le Canadien et les médias : un mariage forcé qui pourrait être plus heureux | ICI.Radio-Canada.ca

Anybody read this? That's some really hardcore stuff.

Can you provide English cliff notes? It's been a long time since Grade 9 French Immersion

 

[isthatso]

Can you provide English cliff notes? It's been a long time since Grade 9 French Immersion

Just did.

 

[Tighthead]

I could see it.

MB is like that new boss we’ve all had. Comes in, friendly. Says his door is always open and he wants to support us in every way possible. Acts like one of the team.

By the end of the second week he has issued memos about the coffee maker, copier and refrigerator.

 

[Laurentide]

Anyone else heard or read what Martin Leclerc revealed yesterday? I read it online but he said that when MB first arrived, he and MT sat in a room with all the Quebec players and told them that if they ever release any inside info to the journalists, they'd be traded without warning. Leclerc apparently got this info from someone in the room (I imagine a player who no longer is in the org). He said the players were very confused by this because they weren't the only ones who had a relationship with the reporters and aren't the only ones who can give them inside info.

I don't know how much truth there is to this, but Leclerc isn't someone to just come out and say anything for shock value. He's one of the good ones. It doesn't mean he's got the right info. But he doesn't get careless with the info he puts out.

So MB threatened to trade anyone who leaked info to the media and we found out because someone leaked info to the media. Looks like MB's plan worked perfectly, like all his others.

 

[Laurentide]

« C’était spécial, se souvient un des témoins de cette rencontre. C’était d’autant plus spécial que cet avertissement ne s’adressait qu’aux francophones de l’équipe. Comme si nous étions les seuls gars du club à discuter avec les journalistes... » (Someone present at the meeting)

Roughly translated: ''It was special, said someone present at the meeting. It was even more special since this warning was made only to the french speaking players of the team. Like we were the only guys having discussions with the journalists.''

I'll give MB credit for this at least: he correctly identified the root of the leaking problem. The Anglophone media in Montreal hasn't had any decent scoops since Red Fisher found out about Guy Lafleur's decision to retire in 1984 and they are a lot more strict when it comes to not engaging in idle rumor-mongering. The Francophone side is more competitive so it's a wild west show. They'll print anything to sell a few papers or get a few clicks. There is no English equivalent to a rumor site like Dans les Coulisses.

 

[nhlfan9191]

So MB threatened to trade anyone who leaked info to the media and we found out because someone leaked info to the media. Looks like MB's plan worked perfectly, like all his others.

It shows you his level of intelligence. Tries to gag players by threatening them, likely rubbing them the wrong way. Player gets traded or moves on, first thing they do is leak info to a reporter.

 

[isthatso]

I'll give MB credit for this at least: he correctly identified the root of the leaking problem. The Anglophone media in Montreal hasn't had any decent scoops since Red Fisher found out about Guy Lafleur's decision to retire in 1984 and they are a lot more strict when it comes to not engaging in idle rumor-mongering. The Francophone side is more competitive so it's a wild west show. They'll print anything to sell a few papers or get a few clicks. There is no English equivalent to a rumor site like Dans les Coulisses.

There is a way to discuss that kind of issues though, and singling out a part of the restroom was not necessary even if what you say hold some truth. Threatening players that they would be traded, without warning, is poor management and shows an extreme lack of people skills.

That is just not a way to deal with people that you work with. I sign NDAs regularly and never was once threaten to any extent, nor bullied into signing them. It's always done professionally and all parties understand that it is in the best of interest of all.

Marc Bergevin is clearly unfit to hold any managerial position.

 

[habsgirl5000]

if part of MB's plan is to simply hope and pray that Price majically transforms into his vezina year form, then next season is going to be just as bad as this one was.....Price is not going to improve from what you see now.....its only going to get worse

 

[Laurentide]

if part of MB's plan is to simply hope and pray that Price majically transforms into his vezina year form, then next season is going to be just as bad as this one was.....Price is not going to improve from what you see now.....its only going to get worse

It's not about "transforming" from something he is into something he isn't; it's about reverting to the mean. Price's "normal" is all he needs to transform into and we'll be fine between the pipes. I would prefer, however, that he not need to be super-human just to win games against middle of the pack teams.

At any rate, singling out goaltending as an issue on this team is like having a house with a crumbling foundation and deciding that the real problem is that you need new wallpaper. Price standing on his head for 60 games this season would not have changed the outcome for this team. At best all it would have accomplished is to get them a slightly lower draft pick.

 

[Laurentide]

There is a way to discuss that kind of issues though, and singling out a part of the restroom was not necessary even if what you say hold some truth. Threatening players that they would be traded, without warning, is poor management and shows an extreme lack of people skills.

That is just not a way to deal with people that you work with. I sign NDAs regularly and never was once threaten to any extent, nor bullied into signing them. It's always done professionally and all parties understand that it is in the best of interest of all.

Marc Bergevin is clearly unfit to hold any managerial position.

I agree that if Bergevin wanted to read the riot act (and it's debatable as to whether that's even a course of action one would want to take - most 21st Century GM's wouldn't but our Chief Executive Dinosaur didn't get that memo) he should have read it to the entire team, not just a select group of players chosen because of their last names.

Half the problems with the management of this team stem from their pathological need to keep everything a secret from the people who ultimately pay their salaries: the fans. One has to ask, if management was doing things properly would they still have this need for secrecy? People who have nothing to hide generally don't. The ones who do are those who know damn well that what they're doing is wrong while they're doing it but they want to do it anyway and not have to answer for it. A manager who is so thin-skinned when it comes to dealing with criticism really isn't the right person for the job, especially in a market like Montreal. It shows immaturity and reveals that decisions are being made out of paranoia about the optics of a decision rather than for sound, logical reasons.

There really shouldn't be so much palace intrigue around the running of a hockey team and there doesn't need to be. Just hire actual mature adults and let them do their jobs. All successful teams are similar in that they have a minimum of drama. All dumpster fire teams are pretty much defined by drama.

 

[Vlad The Impaler]

[mod]

And it's not a fabrication. I watched enough AC a few years back to know this is true. Others can chime in. I know @Runner77 has spoken about this too. Lemme guess, we're all lying or exagerating.

All? Lol. You're a just handful of guys harping on the same thing again and again without even noticing how prejudiced you are. You are interpreting anything francophones say through a prism of bigotry and fear, and then regurgitating what you made up here for the few cynical and prejudiced individuals to enjoy. You think everyone on HF is like you? Hell no. At worst, we can say that the silence of the majority and the mods is a form of uneasy complicity but make no mistake: most people here are smart enough not to make every problem this team have be a language issue.

RDS isn't a problem. You are.

[mod]

And it's not a fabrication. I watched enough AC a few years back to know this is true. Others can chime in. I know @Runner77 has spoken about this too. Lemme guess, we're all lying or exagerating. There's no pro-Quebec slant on RDS? You deny any of this?

[mod]

And it's not a fabrication. I watched enough AC a few years back to know this is true. Others can chime in. I know @Runner77 has spoken about this too. Lemme guess, we're all lying or exagerating. There's no pro-Quebec slant on RDS? You deny any of this?