Confirmed Trade: [CBJ/VAN] Vanek for Jussi Jokinen, Tyler Motte

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,567
2,648
While I understand feeling that the return is underwhelming but Motte is functionally a 3rd/4th round pick.

He's reasonably young, an established bottom-6 guy who while smaller can skate and should contribute secondary offense. Has upside. I'd take him over the likely bust that a late 3rd round pick presents.

1. An established bottom-6 guy? Huh? He spent most of last season in the AHL and has spent about 1/3 of the season so far in the AHL, while accumulating a grand total of 5 points in 31 games with the Blue Jackets this season. He isn't an established NHL player.

2. Upside? It is possible, but imo most forwards are showing by the age of 22 and almost 23 what sort of peak they may have. He hasn't shown an NHL scoring touch at all nor has he shown an ability to be a playmaker at the NHL level. His possession stats are dreadful, his scoring production next to nil. Sure, it's possible he'll blossom, but he hasn't been showing signs of it at all.

3. "I'd take him over the likely bust that a late 3rd round pick presents."

Ok, you'll take him over a likely bust. Will you also take him over the chance to get Johnny Gaudreau or Viktor Arvidsson?

The vast majority of players selected in the 3rd round and later will not become more than marginal NHL players (who have next to no value) and many will have no value at all. However, on some occasions the player will turn out to be a very useful player. It is the chance of getting a Johnny Gaudreau or Viktor Arvidsson (or at least a Josh Anderson or Danton Heinen) that gives a 4th round pick its value, not all those players that don't work out.

If you always give up your 4th round picks for 4th liners, you'll have lots of marginal depth but will miss out on those good players who do make a difference.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: brokenhole

Chris R

Registered User
Feb 26, 2018
5
0
lmao. Why couldn't Benning get a 1st out of him? Vanek > Nash.

#FireBenning #HireHolland
Why then did Nash garner more attention, that is from as many as 10 teams(as per SN)? No GM offered a first for Vanek this year, not even a decent draft pick. It was better to get a prospect and a another player. Vancouver didn’t want to part with the assests that could return a first rounder. Hence, the reason why they need to build throughout the draft.
 

Sergei Shirokov

Registered User
Jul 27, 2012
15,998
6,753
British Columbia
Just like LA had too much depth for Vey

Please don't remind me of that. They don't qualify Schroeder (basically the same player, atleast similar) and then trade a 2nd for Vey. A pick that could have gotten us Montour/Dvorak/Point/Donato/exc. The rebuild has been botched from the beginning, no stop-gap opportunity has been passed on.
 

Mal Reynolds

never goes smooth, how come it never goes smooth?
Sep 28, 2008
1,687
611
I find it hard to believe that GM's are thinking this way at the deadline. In most cases, there are multiple teams in on an available trade asset. If there's not, and a GM knows it, sure, they can lowball. BUT, if that was the case here, what was Benning to do? Hang on to Vanek and have him contribute down the stretch and lessen their lottery chances??? No, he took what he could get. It's as if some people think he's intentionally not taking the best deal???

Not what I'm saying at all. What I am trying to say is that ol Jimbo could be better about trying to drive up a player's value. I'm probably picking the wrong time to speak up about it as Vanek doesn't have much trade value but I think Benning has consistently bungled trades (ie overpaying for guys he fixates on getting, bleeding value in deals, etc etc)

Not in every instance mind you but certainly often enough to form a pattern that concerns me.
 

RandV

It's a wolf v2.0
Jul 29, 2003
26,868
4,973
Vancouver
Visit site
If it was literally the only trade offer they received, then I'm fine with it. Motte is at least a decent Comet next season.

I was in the car and listening to the radio leading up to it, they were saying that after the Kane trade there were still 4 teams interested in Vanek.
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
26,020
11,093
It's a sucky return, but i mean...it's Thomas Vanek. He's quite literally a Deadline Day joke, for the way he shows up there annually and everybody and their mother knows he's an offensively talented flake on the best of days, who pulls a masterful disappearing act come playoff time. The deadline return on this guy goes down every year. TSN's national broadcast was blatantly making fun of Vanek's annual appearance on their "trade bait" list. People (even slow-to-learn, less smart than the average HFboarder, NHL GMs) eventually get wise to that kind of "bargain".

It'd be sweet to get something worthwhile for an unwanted player like that (who was unsigned until how late into the UFA period?). But it doesn't work that way.
 

FameFlame069

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
2,992
546
I guess my offer of Poirer and Lazar would have been an overpay for Vanek, well good luck Nucks, Motte looks excellent and Jussi is a beast, great pickups for you guys ;):sarcasm::laugh:
 
Last edited:

spintheblackcircle

incoming!!!
Mar 1, 2002
66,339
12,260
It's a sucky return, but i mean...it's Thomas Vanek. He's quite literally a Deadline Day joke, for the way he shows up there annually and everybody and their mother knows he's an offensively talented flake on the best of days, who pulls a masterful disappearing act come playoff time. The deadline return on this guy goes down every year. TSN's national broadcast was blatantly making fun of Vanek's annual appearance on their "trade bait" list. People (even slow-to-learn, less smart than the average HFboarder, NHL GMs) eventually get wise to that kind of "bargain"..

Vanek-20 goals in 62 playoff games (2 pressbox forwards)
Brassard-22 goals in 78 playoff games (1st, 3rd and a prospect)
Nash-15 goals in 77 playoff games (1st rounder, top 9 forward and a prospect)

Brilliant deal for Columbus, they gave up nothing for something that isn't much worse than what others gave up multiple useful assets.
 

FameFlame069

Registered User
Oct 2, 2017
2,992
546
Vanek-20 goals in 62 playoff games (2 pressbox forwards)
Brassard-22 goals in 78 playoff games (1st, 3rd and a prospect)
Nash-15 goals in 77 playoff games (1st rounder, top 9 forward and a prospect)

Brilliant deal for Columbus, they gave up nothing for something that isn't much worse than what others gave up multiple useful assets.


You're also looking at strictly goals in the postseason, Nash has a huge edge defensively over Brass and Vanek, but honestly as a Flames fan I would have given up two young players for Vanek, the last two trades Cgy and Van did together, Van won imo and Imo Lazar + Poirer would of been a better return over Jussi and Motte, he would have excelled on our 3rd line.
 

spintheblackcircle

incoming!!!
Mar 1, 2002
66,339
12,260
Vanek has been dealt twice before at the deadline:

Montreal-18 games after the trade 8g-7a-15pts +8 10pts in 17 playoff games. I would call that a good addition by Montreal.

Florida-20 games after the trade 2g-8a-10pts -7. I would call that a poor addition by Florida. (though they gave up little)

So, it's been 50/50 so far. One deadline trade was good, one was bad. Let's see what happens in Columbus.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Canadian Canuck

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,567
2,648
If it was literally the only trade offer they received, then I'm fine with it. Motte is at least a decent Comet next season.

I agree with this.

Otoh, though, if it is true that the Canucks received no offer including a pick, why is that? It seems especially strange in view of Chiarelli, in Edmonton, wanting players that might help immediately but settling mostly for picks.

“We went into this deadline to try and get returns that would assist our organization immediately. ... It was a tough market out there. ... We’ll try to use those picks in the summer to try and acquire a player in the summer.” The Trade Deadline passes, Chiarelli speaks

Ok, this is the opposite of Benning, who is saying no picks were available and that he'd have preferred picks.

When a gm who wants players is mostly offered picks and another gm is only offered players or prospects, it bears some examination. Could it be that a scenario has arisen in which teams offer the Canucks the cheapest thing they think the Canucks will value-failing prospects?

A few days ago Benning was speaking of making a hockey trade. Ok, so from the perspective of another gm, what can they offer him that they don't want themselves?

Obviously the cheapest thing for them is a prospect or player that isn't doing well in their organization, someone they're ready to give up on.

Further, Benning has shown to value some of those failing prospects. He'd previously given up picks as full or partial compensation in the trades for Linden Vey, Andrey Pedan, Sven Baertschi, Emerson Etem, Philip Larsen and Derrick Pouliot. He's also given up recently drafted players for older prospects in the trades for Markus Granlund and Adam Clendening.

There's reason to question whether Benning values picks very highly. By my count he's made 10 trades in which the Canucks came out of the deal with fewer or lower picks vs 6 trades in which he's come out with more or higher picks. I'm not saying in this post that those were good or bad trades, merely that he was more often giving picks than getting them. When you're regularly giving picks more than getting them, it suggests that picks aren't as highly valued by you as the team you're trading with.

So if you're a GM from, say, Columbus or Las Vegas, dealing with a GM who values young struggling prospects, doesn't value draft picks as highly as others do and speaks of making a hockey trade and specifically a trade for a player who is tough to play against, what do you offer him? It seems pretty clear to me that the thing to do is scour your roster and reserve list for struggling prospects or players that he might value but who you're close to giving up on and keep your picks which he won't value anyway.


More or higher picks:
Hansen for Goldobin and a 4th
Bieksa for a 2nd
McNally for a 7th
Lack for a 3rd and a 7th
the Kesler deal
Garrison, Costello and a 7th for a 2nd

Lower or fewer picks:
Dorsett for a 3rd
Vey for a 2nd
Pedan for Mallet and a 3rd
Baertschi for a 2nd
Prust for Kassian and a 5th
Sutter and a conditional 3rd for Bonino,Clendening and a 2nd
Etem for Jensen and a 6th
Larsen for a 5th
Gudbranson and a 5th for McCann, a 2nd and a 4th
Pouliot for Pedan and a 4th
 
Last edited:

M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
Sponsor
May 25, 2014
45,959
31,398
Canucks are the worst run franchise by a country mile.
I think for both countries hes just such an idiot and has made fans who hate the Canucks feel pity for us. How can a team sink any lower? I couldnt even watch the game last night Im really not sure how much more i can watch til hes fired
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad