Player Discussion Carey Price - Why Always Me? Edition

[Chili]

I think you missed my point. I'm simply trying to point to common ground between two sides of a debate.

No, I simply express my opinion without arguement or debate.

 

[nhlfan9191]

- Rewarding past performance is not a good strategy , especially with an injury prone 30 year old who has never won anything. It is idiotic.

-Scared GMs. So? Does that make the contract justifiable? In fact it makes your case worse.

In fact I cannot tell if your are disagreeing or agreeing with me here.

-I don't have an agenda, I am debating on a hockey board. More emo crap. And bullying.

Bullying? In what way? If you read the thread back, you would know my opinion on the contract. I’m not re-typing. You keep saying “emo crap”. I called you out last year for unwarranted hate before the contract was signed. The contract is just something for you to try and use now. Keep up your hate campaign.

 

[bsl]

16 goalies have won the Conn Smythe and 16 centers have done it. Your goalie is on the ice for the entire 60 minutes and is the only guy tasked with stopping the puck. If your star center has an off night there are 20 other guys who can put the puck in the net for you. If your goalie has an off night you lose the game.

I'd say goaltending is damn important. Great teams with mediocre goalies have won the cup - that's true. But many, many, many more great teams have lost in the playoffs because they had a mediocre goalie despite being the better team.

How many times in the playoffs have you heard that a team ran into a hot goalie and couldn't win? It happens all the time.

You're right, it changes every year... with the exception of a few guys who are there every year. Carey Price has been incredibly consistent over the years. Those guys are hard to find and worth their weight in gold. It's why top goalies rarely get traded in their prime. Teams don't want to let them go.


The risks with any player are huge when you get into a contract like that. But it's not like Price is a walking injury. He missed a year but he came back and had another Vezina finish... Tons of star players have had concussions. Tavares for example has been laid out a few times and probably has a similar injury history to Price. Would that stop you from signing him?

Good point. Sure goaltending is important. But you don't pay one of 6 potential conn smythe goalies hugely more than any of the others. Or at least don't be the first one to do so with a guy who has never won anything in the PO. Price has never shown he is even near a PO Smythe winner. Not even close.

Price missed a year due to injury, to his knee. That is not good, at all. And he has had other injuries. And he is 30, and on the ice all game. He is a much bigger risk than Tavares.

I mean really, admire Price all you want, but the contract is massively idiotic and indefensible. I could not f***ing believe it when I heard about it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Good point. Sure goaltending is important. But you don't pay one of 6 potential conn smythe goalies hugely more than any of the others. Or at least don't be the first one to do so with a guy who has never won anything in the PO. Price has never shown he is even near a PO Smythe winner. Not even close.

False. He took a very bad team to the 3rd round in 2014 before getting deliberately run by the opposing team who knew we were overly dependent on him. If that doesn't happen it's entirely possible that we could've been in the final.

The fact that we were even in the playoffs (let alone 100 points) with that team though is testament to how good our goaltending was. We were dreadfully bad that year.

Price missed a year due to injury, to his knee. That is not good, at all. And he has had other injuries. And he is 30, and on the ice all game. He is a much bigger risk than Tavares.

If he'd missed a year and this was his first year back I'd agree with you. But he came back and had another Vezina quality year.

Tavares had a pretty bad concussion and was also knocked out for half a year.

I mean really, admire Price all you want, but the contract is massively idiotic and indefensible. I could not ****ing believe it when I heard about it.

It's not indefensible in the least.

 

[bsl]

Bullying? In what way? If you read the thread back, you would know my opinion on the contract. I’m not re-typing. You keep saying “emo crap”. I called you out last year for unwarranted hate before the contract was signed. The contract is just something for you to try and use now. Keep up your hate campaign.

Bolded. Yet more emo crap. I don't hate Price. I never ever said that. I don't hate anybody except maybe Hitler, Mao and Stalin. I dislike the use of this word on the net, and I don't allow my daughter to use it.

And I said that if the contract was bad, Price would get heat. And I am right. So what. Life is hard and sometimes unfair. And there are a hell of a lot of people in this world I feel more sorry for than Cary Price.

Your post is bullying and borders on slander. You are not helping Price. You are likely just embarrassing his reasonable supporters.

 

[Price is Wright]

An opinion: I like Daniel Carr
Not an opinion but a proposed fact: Daniel Carr is a better shooter than in prime Teemu Selanne

Nobody can argue what youylike or don't like, but you can't propose observations you believe to be true and say someone can't argue you on it.

 

[bsl]

False. He took a very bad team to the 3rd round in 2014 before getting deliberately run by the opposing team who knew we were overly dependent on him. If that doesn't happen it's entirely possible that we could've been in the final.

The fact that we were even in the playoffs (let alone 100 points) with that team though is testament to how good our goaltending was. We were dreadfully bad that year.

If he'd missed a year and this was his first year back I'd agree with you. But he came back and had another Vezina quality year.

Tavares had a pretty bad concussion and was also knocked out for half a year.

It's not indefensible in the least.

Good rebuttal. I will bend a bit. And promise to wait a year. But no more than that.

 

[NotProkofievian]

False. He took a very bad team to the 3rd round in 2014 before getting deliberately run by the opposing team who knew we were overly dependent on him. If that doesn't happen it's entirely possible that we could've been in the final.

No he didn't. He was there. He played very well in a few games. But he didn't ''take us there.'' FFS, he had a 919 SV% for those playoffs. That wasn't even close to his best effort. He didn't ''carry'' us past an injury depleted Tampa Bay. We slaughtered them. The idea that Carey ''carried'' us anywhere ignores key contributions of several of our players. Max Pacioretty, for instance, had 11 GWG that year: the most in the league, ahead of Alex Ovechkin's 10. P.K. Subban finished the season with 53 points, and wasn't he like...a PPG through the first two series?

There is only one year that you can argue that Price took us anywhere: that was 2014-15. Even the most ardent Price haters agree that he was incredible that year. But it was just one year, and even then the argument that nobody else in the entire league could have replicated that one performance requires absurd mental gymnastics.

 

[Masao]

I think Price maybe is just frustrated at this point. This team hasn't ever really been a contender since 1993 but a few years ago it looked like they might be on their way to get there. A few more pieces here and there and things looked pretty optimistic. But then it all got destroyed and the Habs are now one of the worst teams in the league. In a situation like that, if I was Price I'd either just stop caring and play normally to collect my millions, or waive my NTC and ask for a trade to someplace where I have the chance to win. I mean with a team as poorly built as this one what can you do?

There are a lot of bad teams with promising futures because of exciting young prospects. This is different. There's no 19 year old Crosby on the roster. Very hard to get excited for anything at this point.

 

[Pat Riot]

No he didn't. He was there. He played very well in a few games. But he didn't ''take us there.'' FFS, he had a 919 SV% for those playoffs. That wasn't even close to his best effort. He didn't ''carry'' us past an injury depleted Tampa Bay. We slaughtered them. The idea that Carey ''carried'' us anywhere ignores key contributions of several of our players. Max Pacioretty, for instance, had 11 GWG that year: the most in the league, ahead of Alex Ovechkin's 10. P.K. Subban finished the season with 53 points, and wasn't he like...a PPG through the first two series?

There is only one year that you can argue that Price took us anywhere: that was 2014-15. Even the most ardent Price haters agree that he was incredible that year. But it was just one year, and even then the argument that nobody else in the entire league could have replicated that one performance requires absurd mental gymnastics.

Excellent post. He was part of a good team with good chemistry. They were many players helping and playing well. To say Price took us there it such a big lie and propaganda. Hockey is a TEAM sport, when the team in front of the goaltender play tight and respect the game plan, the goaltenter will show great stats. This year Price play behind a bad and disorganize team and we see what kind of stats hes putting. Price is not a difference maker like Subban or Radulov were

 

[otto bond]

Price is and needs to be better. This year, the team has had no groves, no one that step up and that is Price included.
We all can agree that this defense is the worst in the league by far.......
Think about it
Petry and Weber are the only two top 4 and after that, its barely NHL 3rd pairing material.
I have full confidence that Price will rebound and so will this team but we need a better back-end group to do this.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Excellent post. He was part of a good team with good chemistry. They were many players helping and playing well. To say Price took us there it such a big lie and propaganda. Hockey is a TEAM sport, when the team in front of the goaltender play tight and respect the game plan, the goaltenter will show great stats. This year Price play behind a bad and disorganize team and we see what kind of stats hes putting. Price is not a difference maker like Subban or Radulov were

This ''Price did it all by himself'' business drives me up the wall. ''Price is the only player in the world capable of elevating the unmitigated trash that was the 2014 Montreal Canadiens to 100 pts,'' goes the argument. ''This season isn't Price's fault, because look at how bad our team is.'' Gee, isn't that convenient. When we have success, it's all because of Price. When we suck, it's not Price's fault.

He's a cleaner, simpler explanation: Price wasn't solely responsible for those 100 pt finishes, because nobody can be, so it's unsurprising that he's unable to do so now.

Here's another internally contradictory belief that many have: Bergevin single handedly ruined a glorious core of young, promising, and perhaps already elite players. But any success that Bergevin enjoyed is bullshit because it was all due to Price, because those rosters were unmitigated trash.

Again, it's not that Bergevin didn't ruin the roster. It's that the maintenance of one irrational, wide-eyed crazy belief (that Carey Price is capable of miracles) pushes one to cognitive dissonance.

 

[BLONG7]

You clearly have a hard time facing contradictory opinions to your own on this subject. It seems to really affect you. Maybe put me on ignore or something if you can't handle it. Just trying to help you.

You have it backwards..........you are the guy having a tough time with someone who has a different view, than yourself.

 

[BLONG7]

A goaltender our best player. Thats so wrong. You beein an hockey fan for so long and have such a poor understanding of the game its truly mindbuggling

If Price is not our best player............then who is?

Check your reading skills...

 

[Pat Riot]

If Price is not our best player............then who is?

Check your reading skills...

IMHO the number one center and the number one D are the cornerstones of the team. Subban before he was traded was by FAR our best player. Now that hes traded we have a very shitty team. No true number one center and no true number one defenseman. A goaltender,in the nhl today, cant be your best player. They have very similar skillset all starting goalies in the league. Its a very overated position in the lineup. Thats why Prices contract is horrible, and no you wont see other GMs commit that much term and money in the near future. The best player in the team for me is Galchenyuk. Trading him would be quite a mistak, on a different team , one with chemistry and playing together , he would produce as much as Filip Forsberg. He is very undermine and badly use in this team

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

No he didn't. He was there. He played very well in a few games. But he didn't ''take us there.'' FFS, he had a 919 SV% for those playoffs.

He had a .926 after the 2nd round. Yes he took us there. We had no business winning that Boston series. Game one the guy faced 50 shots and we won in OT.

Yes, he had a .919 overall but that's because in game one of the Ranger game he got run and stayed in when he shouldn't have.

 

[Pat Riot]

He had a .926 after the 2nd round. Yes he took us there. We had no business winning that Boston series. Game one the guy faced 50 shots and we won in OT.

Yes, he had a .919 overall but that's because in game one of the Ranger game he got run and stayed in when he shouldn't have.

Lol you really have all the excuses in the book for him

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

This ''Price did it all by himself'' business drives me up the wall. ''Price is the only player in the world capable of elevating the unmitigated trash that was the 2014 Montreal Canadiens to 100 pts,'' goes the argument. ''This season isn't Price's fault, because look at how bad our team is.'' Gee, isn't that convenient. When we have success, it's all because of Price. When we suck, it's not Price's fault.

It's been explained to you in the past but you continue to ignore it.

No player does it by himself entirely. Nobody. But some players do more than others. And yes, it's absolutely true that we had an awesome pairing in Subban/Markov. But when they were not on the ice (which was the majority of the time) we had either Cube or Murray out there. Overall that team had terrible numbers throughout the year and we still got to 100 points. That's despite us being bad defensively and offensively. It's ridiculous we even made the playoffs that year. So yeah, it's absolutely fine to say that our goalie carried us... because that's exactly what happened. Even Subban had an off year that season because our coach was forcing dump and chase down our throats.

This season the guy doesn't even have Weber sucking up 20 mins of 5 on 5 time. We've got an AHL level D to go along with Petry. So yeah, Price's numbers are going to take a hit whether he's playing well or not.

That doesn't excuse him from the horrible start he had though. That's entirely on the goalie. And we had Weber in the lineup at that time.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lol you really have all the excuses in the book for him

.926 is a fact not an excuse. Stop coming up with false arguments and I'll stop rebutting them.

 

[NotProkofievian]

He had a .926 after the 2nd round. Yes he took us there. We had no business winning that Boston series. Game one the guy faced 50 shots and we won in OT.

Yes, he had a .919 overall but that's because in game one of the Ranger game he got run and stayed in when he shouldn't have.

Just more ignoring data that doesn't fit the narrative. Here's an amazing stat: if you ignore every game in which Carey Price allowed a goal, he has a SV% of 1.000 and a GAA of 0.00. The numbers are what they are. I'll note for the conerned reader, that there were several other arguments that I made that LG left unaddressed.

Here's another silly and goal-post adjusted claim: ''we had no business beating Boston.'' I suppose he now admits that Carey Price had very little to do with our beating Tampa. To answer the claim that we ''had no business beating Boston,'' I would say that this is a very strange claim to make given that we had a regular season record of 3-1-0 against them in the season in question. Since the beginning of the 2010 season, we had a 12-7-1 record against Boston. No business indeed.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Just more ignoring data that doesn't fit the narrative. Here's an amazing stat: if you ignore every game in which Carey Price allowed a goal, he has a SV% of 1.000 and a GAA of 0.00. The numbers are what they are. I'll note for the conerned reader, that there were several other arguments that I made that LG left unaddressed.

Here's another silly and goal-post adjusted claim: ''we had no business beating Boston.'' I suppose he now admits that Carey Price had very little to do with our beating Tampa. To answer the claim that we ''had no business beating Boston,'' I would say that this is a very strange claim to make given that we had a regular season record of 3-1-0 against them in the season in question. Since the beginning of the 2010 season, we had a 12-7-1 record against Boston. No business indeed.

Don't blame me for pointing out the falsehoods in the numbers. Probably an honest mistake but a mistake nonetheless.

Secondly, that team shouldn't have been in the playoffs to begin with let alone the 3rd round.

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's been explained to you in the past but you continue to ignore it.

No player does it by himself entirely. Nobody. But some players do more than others.

Lol, if you call conceding the point ''explaining,'' sure.

And yes, it's absolutely true that we had an awesome pairing in Subban/Markov. But when they were not on the ice (which was the majority of the time) we had either Cube or Murray out there. Overall that team had terrible numbers throughout the year and we still got to 100 points. That's despite us being bad defensively and offensively. It's ridiculous we even made the playoffs that year. So yeah, it's absolutely fine to say that our goalie carried us... because that's exactly what happened. Even Subban had an off year that season because our coach was forcing dump and chase down our throats.

LMAO, where to start.

So, we had an awesome first pairing, including Subban who was having an off-year, despite a career high offensive output (somehow), and the league leading game-winning goal scorer, but nope, it was all Price because Francis Bouillon and Douglas Murray were our 6th and 9th most used defencemen.

This season the guy doesn't even have Weber sucking up 20 mins of 5 on 5 time. We've got an AHL level D to go along with Petry. So yeah, Price's numbers are going to take a hit whether he's playing well or not.

That doesn't excuse him from the horrible start he had though. That's entirely on the goalie. And we had Weber in the lineup at that time.

Hm, so you're saying that Carey Price has played behind vastly differing strengths of defence this year, yet his numbers remain relatively the same? Wow, what a compelling argument for the effect of a defence on a goaltender's numbers you've got there.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Don't blame me for pointing out the falsehoods in the numbers. Probably an honest mistake but a mistake nonetheless.

Said the cherry-picker.

How do we know which numbers are false? Well, they're the ones that show that Carey Price isn't god-made-man.

Secondly, that team shouldn't have been in the playoffs to begin with let alone the 3rd round.

Yes. That team with the 39 goal scorer, the amazing top pairing, and host of burgeoning young talent. No bidness at all to be in the playoffs.

Of course, then we met a hilariously weak Tampa team, and a Boston team that we've always done extremely well against. But this is not to be paid any attention: it was all Carey Price.

 

[BLONG7]

IMHO the number one center and the number one D are the cornerstones of the team. Subban before he was traded was by FAR our best player. Now that hes traded we have a very ****ty team. No true number one center and no true number one defenseman. A goaltender,in the nhl today, cant be your best player. They have very similar skillset all starting goalies in the league. Its a very overated position in the lineup. Thats why Prices contract is horrible, and no you wont see other GMs commit that much term and money in the near future. The best player in the team for me is Galchenyuk. Trading him would be quite a mistak, on a different team , one with chemistry and playing together , he would produce as much as Filip Forsberg. He is very undermine and badly use in this team

You make some good points, all I am saying is, unfortunately, Price is our best player.....that's on Bergevin, and so is the contract...on Bergevin. We are a terrible team 6 yrs later, because of the GM, not the goalie.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

LMAO, where to start.

So, we had an awesome first pairing, including Subban who was having an off-year, despite a career high offensive output (somehow), and the league leading game-winning goal scorer, but nope, it was all Price because Francis Bouillon and Douglas Murray were our 6th and 9th most used defencemen.

13-14 was the year 'da system' was implemented. Yes Subban put up points (he always does) but it's his worst year since 2013. Not his fault either, he got Therriened just like the rest of the team did. And he's playing less than half the game. We were consistently outplayed that year and were bottom third across the board.

We sucked defensively and offensively. Without stellar goaltending we'd have been a lottery team that year.

Hm, so you're saying that Carey Price has played behind vastly differing strengths of defence this year, yet his numbers remain relatively the same? Wow, what a compelling argument for the effect of a defence on a goaltender's numbers you've got there.

No, you'll have to re-read what I actually wrote.