Post-Game Talk: Caps @ Nets, 7pm

[Holtbyisms]

New official music

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

Exactly, and we need to use that against them. Have a team like the Islanders with a crappy system overpay for him and end up totally screwed.

The team we faced tonight would kill to have a lot of things, such as Not Andrew Ladd making 5.5 million until eternity. Holy **** did Snow ruin them

But that would make us a worse team at the same time. What makes you think that Grubi is ready to handle being a starter for 60-70 games like Holtby? It's one thing to have great stats as a backup with a light workload. If Grubi could do the same job as Holtby, don't you think Korn would've advised the Caps to trade Holtby already?

 

[txpd]

He won a playoff game when called on. Tho he did have a bad 1st period but very hard starting on the road with no notice

The game he started was game 2 at home. He allowed 3 goals in 21 shots. The Caps won by scoring 4 goals. Was not Holtby sick in game 1 and played?

This season, Grubbie has played against Buffalo twice, Vancouver, Carolina and maybe Columbus.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

But that would make us a worse team at the same time. What makes you think that Grubi is ready to handle being a starter for 60-70 games like Holtby? It's one thing to have great stats as a backup with a light workload. If Grubi could do the same job as Holtby, don't you think Korn would've advised the Caps to trade Holtby already?

The only way it happens is if the WAR (wins above replacement) is more of a upgrade . I believe the WAR of Holtby and Grubby is not that much. If a trade could turn a 6th defenseman or 3rd center into a all star level player it makes us a better hockey team.

Noovy looked like a Vezina vs us. Varly has had Vezina level seasons, Halak has had those stretches. Do you think the caps fall that much with any of them. No

 

[Holtbyisms]

I don't mean to slight Grubaeur but the system has really created the opportunities for him to play well this year.

 

[sycamore]

Vrana's speed really might give us the edge we need.

 

[hockeyfan88]

We lost Semin and Green for nothing. Under Leonsis, trading players like Ovie, Backstrom and Holtby will NEVER happen, period.

They probably go for a stupid trade like getting rid of Samsonov or Bowey for another aging shutdown defenseman...

 

[Carlzner]

Bob McKenzie warned us. Why didn't we listen

 

[g00n]

Gdtoty

 

[Holtbyisms]

Gdtoty

agreed, I'm saying this avatar is a hands down playoff theme winner.

 

[twabby]

You can make the argument that you can find better bang for the buck than Holtby. I don't happen to agree that it's really feasible at this point, but it's at least a discussion worth having because it helps people understand roster inefficiencies elsewhere.

What I can't really even understand is how anyone can think Holtby is to blame for the team failing to get out of the second round. The Capitals are 25th of 27 teams in postseason goals/60 since Holtby played the 2011-12 postseason. They are 1st in terms of goals against/60!

The postseason failures are almost squarely on the shoulders of the team not scoring enough goals, and frankly it's kind of impressive that the Capitals have won 3 out of 7 series since 2012 considering how poorly they have played offensively.

 

[Revelation]

But that would make us a worse team at the same time. What makes you think that Grubi is ready to handle being a starter for 60-70 games like Holtby? It's one thing to have great stats as a backup with a light workload. If Grubi could do the same job as Holtby, don't you think Korn would've advised the Caps to trade Holtby already?

You don't know if a goalie can be a starter until he has a chance to play a substantial amount of games. For me, beyond the stats Grubi also passes the eye test well. He looked better under Oates than Holtby (ie in a system free environment). No real weaknesses in his game just like Holtby in Holtby's and he seems mentally tough as well. They'd need to get a very good backup for him and be ready for a 1A/1B type scenario though. There's always risk involved picking unproven

For me, I'd let Grubauer get ~30 games this season, then if his play doesn't fall off roll the dice that he's good enough as a starter. They rode Holtby to the brim last year and it got them nowhere.

Keeping Holtby is safer in the whole proven vs unproven way but the team is looking at taking a step back next season unless they roll the dice in a big way. Just resigning Alzner Kuz and Oshie isn't going to cut it and right now it seems we'd be lucky to get even that.

 

[Revelation]

You can make the argument that you can find better bang for the buck than Holtby. I don't happen to agree that it's really feasible at this point, but it's at least a discussion worth having because it helps people understand roster inefficiencies elsewhere.

What I can't really even understand is how anyone can think Holtby is to blame for the team failing to get out of the second round. The Capitals are 25th of 27 teams in postseason goals/60 since Holtby played the 2011-12 postseason. They are 1st in terms of goals against/60!

The postseason failures are almost squarely on the shoulders of the team not scoring enough goals, and frankly it's kind of impressive that the Capitals have won 3 out of 7 series since 2012 considering how poorly they have played offensively.

He's not to blame but he didn't steal any of those series, hence he's not irreplaceable. Were the Rangers skaters that much better than the caps skaters that we lost to them 3 times in a row and no goalie could have stopped that? No, Lundqvist was plainly the difference.

If they don't advance this year (which doesn't seem likely) and don't find a way to add more high end players next season WHILE keeping the ones we have they might as well full on rebuild.

 

[twabby]

You don't know if a goalie can be a starter until he has a chance to play a substantial amount of games. For me, beyond the stats Grubi also passes the eye test well. He looked better under Oates than Holtby (ie in a system free environment). No real weaknesses in his game just like Holtby in Holtby's and he seems mentally tough as well. They'd need to get a very good backup for him and be ready for a 1A/1B type scenario though. There's always risk involved picking unproven

For me, I'd let Grubauer get ~30 games this season, then if his play doesn't fall off roll the dice that he's good enough as a starter. They rode Holtby to the brim last year and it got them nowhere.

Keeping Holtby is safer in the whole proven vs unproven way but the team is looking at taking a step back next season unless they roll the dice in a big way. Just resigning Alzner Kuz and Oshie isn't going to cut it and right now it seems we'd be lucky to get even that.

I have an idea: don't re-sign Alzner. He's not worth it.

 

[Revelation]

I have an idea: don't re-sign Alzner. He's not worth it.

So what does your defense look like then? Losing Alzner exposes every other defenseman to harder defensive minutes. Even if we replace him with an ideal replacement like a Vlasic or a Hedman we'd still ideally want another top 4 LD unless Orlov takes a big next step.

Alzner isn't a #1 but the caps defense so far has folded like a cheap tent in the playoffs without him

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I have an idea: don't re-sign Alzner. He's not worth it.

I think we are worst minus Alzner and keeping Holtby

Alzner and grubby we don't miss a step

 

[bur and 666 others]

People love Holtby so the idea that he isn't irreplaceable and having Grubauer take over after this season while using return/Cap savings to improve the team elsewhere (as Alzner/Kuznetsov/Oshie will all need raises) is seen as a personal insult and needs to be savaged accordingly.

I see your point of view, but IMO having a good goalie is more crucial. You need a good goalie to make playoffs and it won't be easy as the division is tough. I'm not even going to talk about playoffs. Grubauer might work, but I rather not to explore this as I remember when we were in constant search for our starting goalie and loosing playoffs series with rookie goalies (though we won against the rags haha, maybe we can put samsonov against them next time lol). Before Hotlby, it was painful and i rather not to be there again.

 

[twabby]

So what does your defense look like then? Losing Alzner exposes every other defenseman to harder defensive minutes. Even if we replace him with an ideal replacement like a Vlasic or a Hedman we'd still ideally want another top 4 LD unless Orlov takes a big next step

Cheap UFA D like Hainsey to replace Alzner on the second pairing and roll the dice on Orlov/Schmidt alongside Niskanen (who I think has absolutely carried Alzner since he has arrived in Washington) is the easiest solution.

Honestly I'd take a run at a true #1 this offseason when there is bound to be a lot of activity in the trade market due to the looming expansion draft.

Basically I'm not comfortable with giving Alzner anything expensive or long-term when he has been a passenger at even strength his entire career and doesn't even have the elite defensive ability that players like Hjalmarsson, Tanev, and Niskanen do.

 

[Alexander the Gr8]

The only way it happens is if the WAR (wins above replacement) is more of a upgrade . I believe the WAR of Holtby and Grubby is not that much. If a trade could turn a 6th defenseman or 3rd center into a all star level player it makes us a better hockey team.

Noovy looked like a Vezina vs us. Varly has had Vezina level seasons, Halak has had those stretches. Do you think the caps fall that much with any of them. No

Yes they would. In the Ovechkin era, we changed goalies many times because they were unreliable and let us down all the time. Before we got Holtby, goaltending was one of the Capitals' biggest weaknesses and now it's one of our strengths. How many different goalies did we try before Holtby full time? We had Kolzig, Huet, Theodore, Varlamov, Neuvirth, Vokoun and Halak.

None of these guys worked, which is why we quickly got rid of them. Varly's Vezina quality seasons came in Colorado. He's never played more than 27 games here considering he was in a #1A/#1B situation for most of his Capitals tenure. Neuvy had 2-3 great games, that's a very small sample size.

As explained above by other posters, this is a buyer's market right now. We wouldn't fetch fair value if we tried to trade Holtby. We'll probably lose Grubi in the expansion draft, and we'll have to call up Vanecek next year or find another backup on the market.

Bob McKenzie warned us. Why didn't we listen

Warned us about what?

You don't know if a goalie can be a starter until he has a chance to play a substantial amount of games. For me, beyond the stats Grubi also passes the eye test well. He looked better under Oates than Holtby (ie in a system free environment). No real weaknesses in his game just like Holtby in Holtby's and he seems mentally tough as well. They'd need to get a very good backup for him and be ready for a 1A/1B type scenario though. There's always risk involved picking unproven

For me, I'd let Grubauer get ~30 games this season, then if his play doesn't fall off roll the dice that he's good enough as a starter. They rode Holtby to the brim last year and it got them nowhere.

Keeping Holtby is safer in the whole proven vs unproven way but the team is looking at taking a step back next season unless they roll the dice in a big way. Just resigning Alzner Kuz and Oshie isn't going to cut it and right now it seems we'd be lucky to get even that.

The sole purpose of trading Holtby would be to free up cap space. There are far safer ways to get that cap space. You could trade Orpik in the summer and get the same results. He's a far less vital component to this Caps team.

 

[txpd]

He's not to blame but he didn't steal any of those series.

Boston. He stole that one

 

[Revelation]

Boston. He stole that one

Yeah I've said that many times, he stole that one but none since. By 1st round I mean the Rangers one under Oates, which wasn't his fault (nothing under Oates really is) but still he didn't steal it.

 

[bur and 666 others]

Yes they would. In the Ovechkin era, we changed goalies many times because they were unreliable and let us down all the time. Before we got Holtby, goaltending was one of the Capitals' biggest weaknesses and now it's one of our strengths. How many different goalies did we try before Holtby full time? We had Kolzig, Huet, Theodore, Varlamov, Neuvirth, Vokoun and Halak.

None of these guys worked, which is why we quickly got rid of them. Varly's Vezina quality seasons came in Colorado. He's never played more than 27 games here considering he was in a #1A/#1B situation for most of his Capitals tenure. Neuvy had 2-3 great games, that's a very small sample size.

As explained above by other posters, this is a buyer's market right now. We wouldn't fetch fair value if we tried to trade Holtby. We'll probably lose Grubi in the expansion draft, and we'll have to call up Vanecek next year or find another backup on the market.



Warned us about what?



The sole purpose of trading Holtby would be to free up cap space. There are far safer ways to get that cap space. You could trade Orpik in the summer and get the same results. He's a far less vital component to this Caps team.

I think it's about Alzner fetching more than 6mil

yeah, after this season it'll be interesting. ideally would be loose orpik, winnik, eller and keep alzner and oshie.

 

[Ovechkins Wodka]

I think it's about Alzner fetching more than 6mil

yeah, after this season it'll be interesting. ideally would be loose orpik, winnik, eller and keep alzner and oshie.

Leaf fans already have Alzner on their roster next year we can't keep them all

 

[Revelation]

Cheap UFA D like Hainsey to replace Alzner on the second pairing and roll the dice on Orlov/Schmidt alongside Niskanen (who I think has absolutely carried Alzner since he has arrived in Washington) is the easiest solution.

Honestly I'd take a run at a true #1 this offseason when there is bound to be a lot of activity in the trade market due to the looming expansion draft.

Basically I'm not comfortable with giving Alzner anything expensive or long-term when he has been a passenger at even strength his entire career and doesn't even have the elite defensive ability that players like Hjalmarsson, Tanev, and Niskanen do.

Alzner is no worse defensively than Niskanen. Niskanen is able to move and possess the puck more on that pairing because Alzner covers him and retrieves it for him/gets it to him exceptionally well. He also almost never gets burned which is huge and lets his partner play with more freedom.

Might as well call John Erskine out of retirement if you're going for Hainsey.

 

[Revelation]

Leaf fans already have Alzner on their roster next year we can't keep them all

Calgary has the best chance out of all Canadian teams. He's from around there and they're dying for a defensive top 4 LD to put with Hamilton or Brodie. They're also on the upswing kinda.

But I think optimistically we can get Alzner for 5 million or even ~4.5 if we give him the full 8 years. He's firmly settled in here and has always taken outrageous discounts for us.

Leafs will have to settle for Carlson a year later