Confirmed with Link: Brind'Amour named head coach

[Svechhammer]

No, I don't pay thousands of dollars a year for seats to watch subprime car loans be made.

You don't think the owners of the mortgage company didn't ask for and give guidance to the heads of sales every once and a while, especially if those people also reported to them?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Yeah, it's the fact that Rod seems to think his job is to convince the owner that the veteran, almost HoF player knows better than the guy who bought the team and wasn't convinced he'd even like hockey when he did.

And Rod apparently believes that if he convinces said owner that his ideas are dumb too many times, he'll get fired for it. Sees it as an inevitably.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

No, I don't pay thousands of dollars a year for seats to watch subprime car loans be made.

I mean maybe you don’t, but you’re a customer of a business the same way someone buying a car is.

 

[Svechhammer]

Yeah, it's the fact that Rod seems to think his job is to convince the owner that the veteran, almost HoF player knows better than the guy who bought the team and wasn't convinced he'd even like hockey when he did.

And Rod apparently believes that if he convinces said owner that his ideas are dumb too many times, he'll get fired for it. Sees it as an inevitably.

Its good that you're not reading too much into that snippet. Wouldn't want to make any broad assumptions based on a sound byte.

 

[Novacane]

I assumed "fine" meant the team is doing well. If things "aren't fine" coaches inevitably get fired. The overwhelming majority of coaches get fired, inevitably, as they aren't successful. That has nothing to do with being a yes man. At least that's how I took the quote.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Its good that you're not reading too much into that snippet. Wouldn't want to make any broad assumptions based on a sound byte.

Uh, he says it right here:

I'm just going to have to show him why [we shouldn't] do what he wants to do. He wants to put a guy in and play him here, and everyone knows it's not the best decision, I gotta show him why. I gotta let him know, and then he's fine.

It's going to be fine. I know what I gotta do. And if it isn't [fine], well, we know how the story ends with every coach anyway."

 

[Svechhammer]

I assumed "fine" meant the team is doing well. If things "aren't fine" coaches inevitably get fired. The overwhelming majority of coaches get fired, inevitably, as they aren't successful. That has nothing to do with being a yes man. At least that's how I took the quote.

That's how I took the quote as well.

 

[geehaad]

EDIT: I let this sit as a draft for too long and the conversation moved onto the owner/coach dynamic...sorry that this disjoints the discussion, but I didn't want to delete it, either.

I get that Brind'Amour's reputation for working out is probably his most talked-about trait as a player, but it doesn't mean his effect as a coach will be felt most notably in its off-ice preparation.

We've heard about him running 2-on-1s with Cole against AWard after practice. We know about players getting after-practice work with Brind'Amour on faceoffs. We've heard from Weight that Brind'Amour addressed him straight away about his role on the team, in a way that was direct and actionable. We have seen plenty of video where Brind'Amour (the player) is talking to his teammates on the bench in a very animated way, presumably instructing them how to play a particular in-game situation.

These are all things that illuminate Brind'Amour's coaching traits that largely get ignored in favor of the workout narrative. As a player, Brind'Amour was not defined by his workouts, it was simply the most talked-about aspect as a player. Similarly, while it's true that he will likely place importance on off-ice workouts, his coaching legacy certainly will not be determined by whether or not he gets his players to up their workout regimen.

And while this is possibly contrary to what's been said in the interviews, I don't think his focus will be getting them to "work harder" during games, either. I certainly don't think he'll be doling out PT based on the players that are clearly seen as having a constant on-ice motor. I think he will be pushing them to work harder at practice, both during and after...attempting to get things like finishing 2-on-1s and one-timers into muscle memory. Because he wasn't gifted with speed/quickness/etc, Brind'Amour didn't out-work his opponent during games...he out-worked them beforehand. During games, he would out-smart them by reading the situation and picking out the best place to be on the ice...predict the movement of the puck and be prepared to take advantage. But even if you get yourself into an advantageous position, if you can't execute, it's mostly worthless. Not being able to finish one-timers is a huge complaint I have had with this team...with the notable exception of Aho and TT, they seem to always have to settle the puck before directing it on-net. It's an example where working harder can show positive results, but it doesn't require harder work in games.

Too many are stopping at the easiest jump-off point in their analysis. Be best.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I understand your point, and we'll definitely have to wait and see how TD handles a "no" from Roddy.

I'm just looking at how new he is and how he seems like a "see what sticks" type of person. I don't think TD is afraid to fail if it means learning stuff along the way, but how often will he fail? And how will he respond when the blame for a decision comes back on him?

Another thing Dundon's been pretty clear about is that he's VERY willing to be wrong. The goal is to get to the right solution and succeed, not to look like the smartest guy in the room while failing to achieve anything.

Brind'Amour did not say that Dundon will be overruling anyone on hockey decisions. The idea of him doing that is just absurd. What we can expect, based on everything he has said and done so far, is that he's going to challenge the hockey-ops team to demonstrate the "why" of their strategies and decisions. And if they can't explain the "why", including addressing counterpoints and objections, then they aren't going to last long here. That's the culture he's been super explicit about establishing since Day 1.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Dundon placed Roddy there himself. Maybe the only guy in the entire org with enough built-in respect that most would side with him over Dundon in a hockey argument.

Even if Dundon wants to be a heavy meddler, it seems like he is checking-and-balancing himself well. He didn't have to. That jives with the procedural approach he has been promoting.

Which is itself, a hockey decision.

Dundon is going to do what Dundon wants to do, it's his team and he has a right to. Roddy has come right out and said he's going to be down in the coaches office daily and making suggestions on what to do and who to play. It can't get any more straightforward than that for me. People can say he's just trying to learn, it's collaborative, it's the procedural approach, it's like a CEO just checking in with a VP, etc... but whatever you call it, it's very clear he wants to be and is going to be very involved in hockey decisions. He (Dundon) even said he would be in the Gulliti interview so again, not sure why people have been trying to say he won't be or put it in a different light. He said he would be, he is acting like it, and his new coach says he will be.

I'm not saying that's a bad thing or a good thing, just that it is a thing. I'm not complaining about it and am keeping an open mind on it because ultimately, it will only be results that count.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Yeah, it's the fact that Rod seems to think his job is to convince the owner that the veteran, almost HoF player knows better than the guy who bought the team and wasn't convinced he'd even like hockey when he did.

And Rod apparently believes that if he convinces said owner that his ideas are dumb too many times, he'll get fired for it. Sees it as an inevitably.

No, he sees it as an inevitability that he'll get fired for one reason or another.

Probably because it's inevitable that he'll get fired for one reason or another.

He seems to be saying that if he gets fired for disagreeing with the owner, so be it. That's exactly the right attitude to have, I believe.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

A funny story when I picked up my son the other day. He doesn't really follow the Canes avidly anymore like he did when he was younger.

Me: Hey, you hear Brindy is the new coach for the Canes?
Him: Really, he doesn't seem that bright to me.
Me: Why do you say that?
Him: Remember back in 2006/2007 season when we were standing in that line outside the RecZone to get autographs, and Rod came out and just stood there and then finally said: "What do you want me to do?" and then I asked him to sign my jersey.
Me: Why does that make you think he's not bright?
Him: Well, I'm a little kid, standing in a line of people waiting to get an autograph, holding up a black sharpie and wearing a Canes jersey that has a bunch of autographs on it. How could he now know what I wanted him to do?

 

[geehaad]

On the Dundon/Brind'Amour dynamic: it's good that Rod is, at the outset at least, willing to involve Dundon. But that shit is gonna get old quick. If Dundon isn't a quick study and slows Brind'Amour down too much/often, that relationship will go sideways in a big hurry. Even the most patient among us don't have great amounts of tolerance for being second-guessed, so hopefully Dundon has already come to understand that.

 

[tarheelhockey]

No, he sees it as an inevitability that he'll get fired for one reason or another.

Probably because it's inevitable that he'll get fired for one reason or another.

He seems to be saying that if he gets fired for disagreeing with the owner, so be it. That's exactly the right attitude to have, I believe.

He's coached under Maurice, Muller, and Peters. Prior to that he played in Philly where Paul Holmgren, Bill Dineen, Terry Simpson, Terry Murray, Wayne Cashman, and Roger Neilson all coached the team in a span of 9 years; and then for the Canes where we went Maurice, Laviolette, Maurice.

This guy has seen a lot of coach firings up close. I'm sure he's got a pretty realistic take on how long his lifespan will be around here if we don't start winning.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

This guy has seen a lot of coach firings up close. I'm sure he's got a pretty realistic take on how long his lifespan will be around here if we don't start winning.

An NHL coach who has never been fired has gotta be rare.

Anyone who takes an NHL coaching jobs knows that at some point, he's going to be fired. Even if he's wildly successful early on, there will be a time when teams don't meet expectations.

 

[tarheelhockey]

An NHL coach who has never been fired has gotta be rare.

Anyone who takes an NHL coaching jobs knows that at some point, he's going to be fired. Even if he's wildly successful early on, there will be a time when teams don't meet expectations.

I think Al Arbour made it through his whole career without being fired? Started in St. Louis and went willingly to coach NYI where he retired on his own terms.

Scotty Bowman comes close on technicalities (he walked out of a couple of organizations) but he did get fired in Buffalo.

I'm sure there are a few from the old days of manager-coaches, but Arbour's the only one I know of from modern hockey.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think Al Arbour made it through his whole career without being fired? Started in St. Louis and went willingly to coach NYI where he retired on his own terms.

Scotty Bowman comes close on technicalities (he walked out of a couple of organizations) but he did get fired in Buffalo.

I'm sure there are a few from the old days of manager-coaches, but Arbour's the only one I know of from modern hockey.

Well, Bill Peters has never been fired from an NHL head coaching job.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Well, Bill Peters has never been fired from an NHL head coaching job.

 

[The Faulker 27]

This is being overhyped at this point. Anything short of a Stanley Cup and they should shit can his ass.

 

[Lempo]

I assumed "fine" meant the team is doing well. If things "aren't fine" coaches inevitably get fired. The overwhelming majority of coaches get fired, inevitably, as they aren't successful. That has nothing to do with being a yes man. At least that's how I took the quote.

I don't even think the team success per se is the deciding factor, because there can be some things outside of your control hampering it it being Metro and all, but rather Rod's continued employment depends on if the setup planned here seems to generally be working in the office between the participants.

The decisions won't necessarily amount to success, but if the decisions were "correct" decisions at the time it's hard to blame them on the coach or any other person. They get Tavares, but his performance drops off the cliff , that sort of thing.

 

[AeroFishOne]

End of playoffs, Draft day, free agency, training camp, exhibition games, regular season.

Can we atleast get to the last item on that list and maybe until Thanksgiving before we start cursing at the sky saying it’s a failure and Dundon is Satan. Maybe.....

 

[Canes]

I've finally warmed up to Brindy as coach. I probably focused too much on why Brindy might not work out while mostly ignoring reasons why he could work out, as numerous people have provided in this thread. It's certainly going to be interesting because we really have very little idea of what we're going to get with Brindy over an established guy like say, Dave Tippett.

Now I'm just going to worry about the draft and Dundon.

 

[Negan4Coach]

A funny story when I picked up my son the other day. He doesn't really follow the Canes avidly anymore like he did when he was younger.

Me: Hey, you hear Brindy is the new coach for the Canes?
Him: Really, he doesn't seem that bright to me.
Me: Why do you say that?
Him: Remember back in 2006/2007 season when we were standing in that line outside the RecZone to get autographs, and Rod came out and just stood there and then finally said: "What do you want me to do?" and then I asked him to sign my jersey.
Me: Why does that make you think he's not bright?
Him: Well, I'm a little kid, standing in a line of people waiting to get an autograph, holding up a black sharpie and wearing a Canes jersey that has a bunch of autographs on it. How could he now know what I wanted him to do?

Yeah, during the interview I was like "Holy crap this guy sounds as spaced out and punchy as Muller did"

Sigh. Welcome to "EA Sports NHL 18 GM mode- real world edition" (Screw this- we're going to 1-4 neutral zone trap boys!)

I hope Dundon is as good at coaching/GM as he was at ripping people off with predatory car loans.

 

[bluedevil58]

Yeah, during the interview I was like "Holy crap this guy sounds as spaced out and punchy as Muller did"

Sigh. Welcome to "EA Sports NHL 18 GM mode- real world edition" (Screw this- we're going to 1-4 neutral zone trap boys!)

I hope Dundon is as good at coaching/GM as he was at ripping people off with predatory car loans.

Now you have me triggered.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Yeah, during the interview I was like "Holy crap this guy sounds as spaced out and punchy as Muller did"

Sigh. Welcome to "EA Sports NHL 18 GM mode- real world edition" (Screw this- we're going to 1-4 neutral zone trap boys!)

I hope Dundon is as good at coaching/GM as he was at ripping people off with predatory car loans.

In fairness, I'm relatively sure that Rod just wanted the kids to not be timid and speak up. He was going through an autograph line, so it's clear what the scoop was (unlike Eric Staal and Brett Hedican who snuck out the back door to avoid the kids seeking autographs).

I just thought it was a funny story for what my college age son thought of Brindy.