Rumor: Brennan Tweet (since deleted)

[Oriole]

One of the excuses I like the most is" Yes, that one trade was a dumb move, but hey this other trade was good, so its no big deal".

Its the oddest form of rebuttal because it neglects or ignores the rather obvious alternative that both trades could have been good, so the alternative would end up being really good (i.e., twice as good). This year's version is: Hey ya, that Stepan trade was bad, but we got a 2nd back for Paquette & Coburn.

On this subject, I really wonder what other teams were pursuing Tampa for Paquette & Coburn? Were division rivals interested in throwing BriseBois a lifeline & slit their own throats in the process? How about a good team that had aspirations on going on a deep run? Would they throw a lifeline to TBL? How about all of the teams with cap constraints & woes (a pretty good chunk of all of the teams this offseason)? Were they thinking that Paquette & Coburn were just what they needed to improve their team's fortunes? Same questions outlined here would also apply to Stepan.

When you add all of this up, you'd really have to wonder if precious few (if any at all) were even thinking of a trade like the one the Senators did?

Odd line of thinking here. The Sens got Paquette, Coburn and a second for Nilsson and Gaborik. Two guys who will never play in the league again. They then packaged Paquette (who didn't want to be here) along with a guy they picked up for nothing (Galchenyuk) and turned them into Dzingel. I would say they turned crap into gold in this deal.

 

[jhutter]

Karlsson and Spezza were two of the best players to ever play for this organization and I am proud to have been a fan when they were here and we were lucky to have been able to watch them play. I guarantee you that if you were a real fan, you were cheering these guys on as well as everyone else.

Quit dragging them through the mud, they are gone.

Karlsson and Spezza were undoubtedly two of the best players in a Senators uniform, but the "real fan" stuff is nonsense.

 

[swiftwin]

So it depends what you think "on track" is.

Most fans here think we'll probably be a bad team again next year, and will start competing for the playoffs in 22-23. That's probably a realistic expectation, and we're on track for that timeline.

But it doesn't seem to align with Melnyk's view, who thinks we should be competing for the Cup over the next 3 seasons.

At the end of the day, the only expectations that matter are Melnyk's. Maybe he's just being overly positive in the press and understands that we're several years away, still. But maybe not. Who knows.

We can't deny that Melnyk actually gave Dorion the green light to spend some money this summer. That points to him thinking we were on the cusp of competing. It hasn't turned out that way, so far.

We very well could be on the cusp of competing. This season, we've integrated more young players into the team than we have any any other point in the rebuild. Over the past few seasons, that was usually offset by slowly removing older core players. This season, there are no more "old core players" to remove.

Look at our list of top 7 scorers on the team right now. Connor Brown is the only one over the age of 24. Of those 7, only 3 were in the lineup on opening night last season. That's an insane amount of progression on the rebuild.

 

[swiftwin]

First, Melnyk said this wasn't the year because of the north division when diacusing having all the pieces to win it all. It was pretty clear expectations for this season were not bottom of the league. We expected to do better.

Second, the average GM tenure is 5.5 years but that number is dragged up by some of the alk time greats, the median is around 4 years.

Either way, Dorion is coming up on or has already passed what should be expected and so far only has the one successfull season (his first) to brag about when defending his work.

And we very well still could do better. We've been on the road more than any other team in the division so far this season. 11 of our next 14 games are at home. We're a .500 team at home (6-6-1).

 

[BloodRedArmy]

How?

Wish people would stop talking about Brennan, you’re just keeping him relevant.

It's interesting that someone in the MSM said that jobs were in jeopardy and then deleted it. I mean, if that's not interesting to you, not sure what you're doing on an NHL rumors message board.

 

[lancepitlick]

Who ever said this year was a year to win? I don't understand this logic. They are a rebuilding team. Half the defense will be gone next year.

I do think we will have a new GM in a year or so, but when your job was to tear it down, you aren't evaluated on your team's record.

I'm only saying that to elucidate why firing the coach would serve zero purpose.

In terms of Dorion the record is only half the story. It is his history of idiotic trades, signings, statements and overall lack of competence that makes me want to see him terminated.

Trading picks for guys that can't play when rebuilding.
Not resigning vets that can play when you don't need to trade anything.
Spending big on a goalie that isn't a surefire stud (analytics says: don't do this!).
Embarrassing statements (trading Mark Stone is my finest hour, calling a sports talk show like a regular guy, saying you get stars late in the draft so don't need picks which makes no sense etc.).
Duchesne debacle.
Poor returns for nearly every trade save the Karlsson miracle and minor deals like Dzingle.
Z-bad for Brossard. SMH. And a pick. SMH x 2.

I don't expect the team to be a playoff team or contender at this stage of a rebuild, but I would hope for competent management. It doesn't look like that's what the team is getting.

Any idiot can come dead last and draft good players in the top 5. A GM is needed to trade, identify pro talent, make good signings, form a team, hire good people to coach, juggle the cap astutely, draft well, manage assets etc.

Of all of that Dorion has proven himself decent at one element: drafting. To me that means he's a lot better as an amateur scout than as a GM. I expect him to be fired, though with Eugene being a nut job you never know. After being fired I expect he'll resurface as a scout/player personnel guy on some other team, which is where he should be.

 

[DaveMatthew]

We very well could be on the cusp of competing.

No, we're not. There's been some very nice progression from a group of players this year, but we are not on the cusp of competing, unless we make some dramatic moves this offseason to bring in 2-3 established, top-end NHLers. That's the only way we'd be able to compete with the likes of Toronto, Tampa, Boston, Carolina, Washington, etc next year. And I'm talking a couple of major splashes like Jack Eichel, Sasha Barkov, Dougie Hamilton, etc.

If we don't do that? That's fine - we can certainly wait for Sanderson, our top 5 pick from this year, and our other prospects like Pinto, JBD and Formenton to establish themselves. That would be a reasonable approach. But it means we wouldn't be competing next year, and probably not the year after either.

So the question is what Melnyk's expectations are. My guess is that he doesn't want to wait another 2-3 years, but I have no idea, and neither do you.

Either way, there's no reason to believe Dorion has a ton of job security. He's going into the last year of his deal, and just like any other GM, that puts him on the hot seat.

 

[Micklebot]

And we very well still could do better. We've been on the road more than any other team in the division so far this season. 11 of our next 14 games are at home. We're a .500 team at home (6-6-1).

Sure. But if the tweet was right, someones job was reliant on doing better, and lucky for them the team did, that wasn't really the point though.

DJ might be on the hot seat based on his performance, but there is no denying that Dorion will be expected to show results soon too is historical trends continue. How patient is Melnyk? Was he expecting more progress to date? Does he still think Dorion is the guy to get him to the promissed land after seeing a 2nd round pick and 25 mil dollar contract handed over for a .880 sv%?

 

[lancepitlick]

Did they? I thought Melnyk already admitted on Toronto radio earlier that this year would be very very difficult because of the North division situation.

Also, coaches get fired all the time. GMs don't get fired over it. The average NHL coach lasts 2.4 seasons. Smith is only the 2nd hire by Dorion. Boucher lasted almost 3 seasons.

The deals they made along with those comments indicate that they thought they would be a whole lot more competitive than they are. I think they legit thought that Stepan, Gubrandson, Dadynov, Reilly, Watson, Coburn, Murray etc...were going to take them from terrible to a fringe playoff team.

That's a brutal evaluation of your current team and terrible pro scouting.

 

[supsens]

Karlsson and Spezza were two of the best players to ever play for this organization and I am proud to have been a fan when they were here and we were lucky to have been able to watch them play. I guarantee you that if you were a real fan, you were cheering these guys on as well as everyone else.

Quit dragging them through the mud, they are gone.

Spezza gets coach fired for not playing him when he wouldn't play responsible winning hockey spends the next ten years playing blind pass pond hockey and ultimately is exposed when it was time to win. Karlsson and Spezza get the coach fired for trying to get them to play responsible hockey Karlsson spends the next ten years throwing away the puck.._
Both these guys had all the skill in the world and both suffered long term from being spoiled brats that needed 'points' more than wins.

real fan? You mean blind fan boy.

 

[swiftwin]

No, we're not. There's been some very nice progression from a group of players this year, but we are not on the cusp of competing, unless we make some dramatic moves this offseason to bring in 2-3 established, top-end NHLers. That's the only way we'd be able to compete with the likes of Toronto, Tampa, Boston, Carolina, Washington, etc next year. And I'm talking a couple of major splashes like Jack Eichel, Sasha Barkov, Dougie Hamilton, etc.

If we don't do that? That's fine - we can certainly wait for Sanderson, our top 5 pick from this year, and our other prospects like Pinto, JBD and Formenton to establish themselves. That would be a reasonable approach. But it means we wouldn't be competing next year, and probably not the year after either.

So the question is what Melnyk's expectations are. My guess is that he doesn't want to wait another 2-3 years, but I have no idea, and neither do you.

Either way, there's no reason to believe Dorion has a ton of job security. He's going into the last year of his deal, and just like any other GM, that puts him on the hot seat.

I agree with you that Dorion doesn't have a ton of job security next season.

I'd argue that the main thing this season is that were seeing progression with the kids taking on more prominent roles, with a secondary objective of being more competitive. The first part is a success, the second part is still to be determined.

Next season we need to see clear progression in the results, otherwise, I agree, Dorion will absolutely be on the hot seat.

 

[Big Muddy]

Odd line of thinking here. The Sens got Paquette, Coburn and a second for Nilsson and Gaborik. Two guys who will never play in the league again. They then packaged Paquette (who didn't want to be here) along with a guy they picked up for nothing (Galchenyuk) and turned them into Dzingel. I would say they turned crap into gold in this deal.

I am well aware of the details of this specific trade. However, a review of the post (reading + comprehension) would reveal that wasn't what I was talking about at all.

 

[SensHulk]

First, Melnyk said this wasn't the year because of the north division when diacusing having all the pieces to win it all. It was pretty clear expectations for this season were not bottom of the league. We expected to do better.

Second, the average GM tenure is 5.5 years but that number is dragged up by some of the alk time greats, the median is around 4 years.

Either way, Dorion is coming up on or has already passed what should be expected and so far only has the one successfull season (his first) to brag about when defending his work.

i think Dorion officially has become the 2nd longest tenured GM for the sens after Bryan Murray. Crazy to think that. I know Muckler completed 5 full years but he also had an entire season wiped out due to the lockout.

 

[SensHulk]

How many GMs that start rebuilds are around the team when the transition to contender status? I can’t think of one myself, just the way it is in the NHL. I think past this draft, there’s literally no reason to keep Dorion around and it’s a perfect time for a new regime

 

[ksens]

Any idiot can come dead last and draft good players in the top 5. A GM is needed to trade, identify pro talent, make good signings, form a team, hire good people to coach, juggle the cap astutely, draft well, manage assets etc.

Of all of that Dorion has proven himself decent at one element: drafting. To me that means he's a lot better as an amateur scout than as a GM. I expect him to be fired, though with Eugene being a nut job you never know. After being fired I expect he'll resurface as a scout/player personnel guy on some other team, which is where he should be.

Dorion isn't just any idiot, he's our idiot. If he ever gets a job in the NHL again after he is fired here it will be in amateur scouting. Even that might depend a bit on how some of his picks turn out; I suspect that taking Sanderson over Drysdale for example may turn out to be a bad look in 5 years.

Dorion should be fired along with our pro scouting tomorrow and replaced with a larger and more competent team. But that relies on Melnyk staying out of hockey decisions and opening his bank account to pay for actual front office talent. Given the loss of revenue from COVID and one more year left on Dorion's deal I can't see that happening. I sincerely doubt he was going to get fired last night if they lost.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Yes. Definitely. Which is why perhaps it wasn’t a coach who was about to be fired.

My apologies, I misunderstood.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

How many GMs that start rebuilds are around the team when the transition to contender status? I can’t think of one myself, just the way it is in the NHL. I think past this draft, there’s literally no reason to keep Dorion around and it’s a perfect time for a new regime

Poile, Yzerman, are a few

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Dorion isn't just any idiot, he's our idiot. If he ever gets a job in the NHL again after he is fired here it will be in amateur scouting. Even that might depend a bit on how some of his picks turn out; I suspect that taking Sanderson over Drysdale for example may turn out to be a bad look in 5 years.

Dorion should be fired along with our pro scouting tomorrow and replaced with a larger and more competent team. But that relies on Melnyk staying out of hockey decisions and opening his bank account to pay for actual front office talent. Given the loss of revenue from COVID and one more year left on Dorion's deal I can't see that happening. I sincerely doubt he was going to get fired last night if they lost.

He would instantly get a job in scouting if he wants it. Probably a director position as well

 

[JD1]

The deals they made along with those comments indicate that they thought they would be a whole lot more competitive than they are. I think they legit thought that Stepan, Gubrandson, Dadynov, Reilly, Watson, Coburn, Murray etc...were going to take them from terrible to a fringe playoff team.

That's a brutal evaluation of your current team and terrible pro scouting.

Did you see the graphic last night about goals saved below average?

We're 31st by a country mile. Negative 31 which is actually a pretty remarkable achievement when you consider we haven't played 31 games.

Our goaltending has been bad. It's hard to beat your own goaltending

I sure hope Murray can figure it out, otherwise that was an awfully expensive mistake

And with average goaltending our situation would look a lot different

 

[SpezDispenser]

Lol, like he knows anything

 

[Oriole]

I am well aware of the details of this specific trade. However, a review of the post (reading + comprehension) would reveal that wasn't what I was talking about at all.

Apparently you aren't aware at all.You actually said this... This year's version is: Hey ya, that Stepan trade was bad, but we got a 2nd back for Paquette & Coburn.

Which is not true at all. Go back and look what we got for Paquette (we still have Coburn) Maybe you should try to be more accurate with your thoughts if you want people to have an idea about what you're trying to say. My comprehension is just fine. You should work on being less dickish with you reply's.

 

[lancepitlick]

Apparently you aren't aware at all.You actually said this... This year's version is: Hey ya, that Stepan trade was bad, but we got a 2nd back for Paquette & Coburn.

Which is not true at all. Go back and look what we got for Paquette (we still have Coburn) Maybe you should try to be more accurate with your thoughts if you want people to have an idea about what you're trying to say. My comprehension is just fine. You should work on being less dickish with you reply's.

Also one idiotic trade and one good trade coming back to neutral is not what you want. You want as many GREAT trades as possible. Great teams are great because they constantly win and take the competitive advantage.

Getting Stutzle from the Karlsson deal doesn't balance out the Duchesne 1st round pick exiting. You'd be better off with Stutzle and Bowen Byram (or whoever else you could have chosen at #4).

That's great that they picked up a 2nd from Tampa, it doesn't mean you also have to send out a 2nd for a guy that can't play. I'd rather have two 2nds.

You can't win them all, but you also don't have to alternate between terrible and good.

 

[SensHulk]

Poile, Yzerman, are a few

David Poile is clearly an exception, the dude had a much longer leash as the only GM in their history. Yzerman on Tampa is a good one, but I hate to pull the HOFer card but....he clearly got some leeway too

 

[OmniSens]

Y'all think he's bad here, you should see Brennan at the gym

He's been posting a whole bunch of nonsense recently. Complete tool.

 

[Oriole]

Also one idiotic trade and one good trade coming back to neutral is not what you want. You want as many GREAT trades as possible. Great teams are great because they constantly win and take the competitive advantage.

Getting Stutzle from the Karlsson deal doesn't balance out the Duchesne 1st round pick exiting. You'd be better off with Stutzle and Bowen Byram (or whoever else you could have chosen at #4).

That's great that they picked up a 2nd from Tampa, it doesn't mean you also have to send out a 2nd for a guy that can't play. I'd rather have two 2nds.

You can't win them all, but you also don't have to alternate between terrible and good.

Completely agree. It would have been easier to just stand pat this year and let the young guys develop further and hoard all those picks. Safer for the GM for sure.