Boucher's usage of rookies

[WadeRedden]

Once Brown is returned to junior, this team will be left with 11 forwards & 7 defencemen & could play with that until a 12th forward is brought in. The other option obviously is to call someone up from Belleville & it wouldn't surprise me if it was McCormick who received a two yr contract this off season & next yr he will be on a one way contract. It would probably make sense that if you are going to have him on the roster full time next season that he get some experience this yr as a 12th forward & practice time in Ottawa throughout the yr.

I would prefer Paul but I'm not sure where he is at with this management team any longer & whether they will trade him or not. I assume they would want White playing big minutes in all situations in Belleville this yr.

Meh, I've seen enough of McCormick by now to know what he is. He's in his fourth year of pro-hockey and already has 27 games of NHL experience under his belt. Personally, I don't think he's even close to being an NHL'er. I admire the tenacity he plays with but he's not big or talented enough to translate his effort into production. He just sort of runs around trying to hit guys but he's not big enough to lay guys out like Neiler could. Kind of sucks that he's on a one way next year which was totally avoidable since I'm pretty sure he would have still been an RFA but we know how Dorion feels about players like him, so what can ya do?

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Agree to disagree I guess. Why have a placeholder if he's playing 7 mins. Boucher doesn't trust him and it puts the whole team behind the eight ball if he doesn't play his share of the mins. His usage is potentially costing us pts in the standings. We have Chabot, Harpur, and Boro who Boucher seems to trust as much or more than him. He serves little purpose right now imo, and his value at the deadline certainly won't improve if he keeps playing such limited mins.

As for whether Chabot is or isn't ready, he's already better offensively than Wideman, and Boucher seems to trust him as much defensively. I'd much rather have Chabot myself. I'm hoping he'll play his way into our lineup as early as this weeked; 3 games in 3 nights to prove himself.

I understand that there is a large segment of the Ottawa fanbase that see Chabot as their shiny new toy, and they can't wait to see him inserted into the Ottawa lineup ASAP............... but I defer to the Sens Management and the Coaching staff .............. they've be tracking Chabot for a while now, and they know if he's ready for full-time NHL duty or not. The Senator's season is not hanging on whether or not Chabot is in the line up or not.

When there's a trade to open up a spot for him, or he's called up as the eighth D man (not an injury call up) then, and only then will we know he's seen as ready for the NHL............... so right now he's in the best place possible at this point in his career to be on track to make the NHL............. playing 20-25 minutes a game rather than being spotted in a game here and there in the NHL, and watching mostly from the press box is not what he needs right now to play himself into the lineup one way or another.

 

[Tuna99]

Chabot can play in the NHL but we’d lose more games because of it. The hype around him was insane but if you watched him in Junior you knew he needed time to deal with NHL size and agrresivity.

Is Logan Brown NHL ready - not in my eyes. The talent is there but he’s not fast, he coasts a lot and his intensity isn’t anywhere close to be ‘brining it every shift’ yet.

Everyone relax about this rookie minutes played. This is a stupid label the media has put on Boucher to generate talk.

If a rookie player is ready in Ottawa - Colin White - he will play a regular shift. It’s not a Boucher versus all Senator rookies, this is case by case and Chabot is very close but not closer then Oduya and Brown isn’t NHL ready yet. He couldn’t even make his WJC team.

 

[JD1]

Chabot can play in the NHL but we’d lose more games because of it. The hype around him was insane but if you watched him in Junior you knew he needed time to deal with NHL size and agrresivity.

Is Logan Brown NHL ready - not in my eyes. The talent is there but he’s not fast, he coasts a lot and his intensity isn’t anywhere close to be ‘brining it every shift’ yet.

Everyone relax about this rookie minutes played. This is a stupid label the media has put on Boucher to generate talk.

If a rookie player is ready in Ottawa - Colin White - he will play a regular shift. It’s not a Boucher versus all Senator rookies, this is case by case and Chabot is very close but not closer then Oduya and Brown isn’t NHL ready yet. He couldn’t even make his WJC team.

are you judging his nhl readiness on not being on the WJC team last year?

or are you saying he won't make it this year?

 

[chipsens]

9 is the number. Brown should go down <9

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Chabot can play in the NHL but we’d lose more games because of it. The hype around him was insane but if you watched him in Junior you knew he needed time to deal with NHL size and agrresivity.

Is Logan Brown NHL ready - not in my eyes. The talent is there but he’s not fast, he coasts a lot and his intensity isn’t anywhere close to be ‘brining it every shift’ yet.

Everyone relax about this rookie minutes played. This is a stupid label the media has put on Boucher to generate talk.

If a rookie player is ready in Ottawa - Colin White - he will play a regular shift. It’s not a Boucher versus all Senator rookies, this is case by case and Chabot is very close but not closer then Oduya and Brown isn’t NHL ready yet. He couldn’t even make his WJC team.

Agree with most of what you're saying....except for minutes played. Kids do need a reasonable amount of icetime to get into a groove and learn how to play their game at the NHL level (as do all players). If a kid isn't ready, you're not really helping him that much by sitting on the bench, and getting 3-4 shifts a game. Yes, practicing with NHLers and 1-on-1 time with the trainers is great....but eventually the kids need to play. If not in Ottawa, then in Belleville or their junior clubs.

Hopefully Brown will be back in Windsor by the end of the month, so he can get a good run going before the WJC.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Warren has a piece on this http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...wn-realizes-he-must-earn-coach-bouchers-trust

"Under Senators coach Guy Boucher, the leash for kids to make mistakes is nowhere near as long as the rope for veterans."

“You want to say you’re not hesitating, but you are,” said Dzingel, who endured his share of tough love under Boucher in 2016-17. “You don’t want to cost anything for your team, especially if you’re a rookie, because you’re not going to play.”

 

[Tuna99]

Warren has a piece on this http://ottawacitizen.com/sports/hoc...wn-realizes-he-must-earn-coach-bouchers-trust

"Under Senators coach Guy Boucher, the leash for kids to make mistakes is nowhere near as long as the rope for veterans."

“You want to say you’re not hesitating, but you are,” said Dzingel, who endured his share of tough love under Boucher in 2016-17. “You don’t want to cost anything for your team, especially if you’re a rookie, because you’re not going to play.”

This is interesting because you can see this as rookies having to deal with the pressures of playing pro hockey and Dzingel handled the pressure last year extremely well. He played 81 games last season, so to say you 'won't play' is just a joke. Boucher praised Dzingel from day 1 of training camp last year and used him all over the lineup.. Dzingel was the 'surprise' player to many last year.

Boucher as a coach praised Chabot last year, all through camp and while he was benched in Ottawa. So is this about 'minutes played' or development? . I think Chabot played a total of 10 pro minutes of hockey last year but his development was incredible, he's the top prospect in hockey.

So if people want to whine about was it 5 or 11 minutes, go ahead and waste your time. If you want to talk about development of a players game that's what Boucher is about. And Chabot, Harpur, White, Brown, Formenton are all developing better under Boucher/Dorion then anything we had under Murray.

Lazar had lots of minutes, so did Cowen, Weircoche - didn't do them any good. What we talk about now is their 'development' wasn't handled properly, not their in game minutes.

Boucher is a hockey genius, so anyone on TSN1200 or anyone named Pierre that wants to take a run at him and say they know Logan Browns game better then Boucher and knows what's better for the long term future of the Ottawa Senators then the greatest scout in Hockey in Dorion and the best coach in hockey in Boucher hasn't had their morning coffee yet

 

[NyQuil]

Boucher is a hockey genius, so anyone on TSN1200 or anyone named Pierre that wants to take a run at him and say they know Logan Browns game better then Boucher and knows what's better for the long term future of the Ottawa Senators then the greatest scout in Hockey in Dorion and the best coach in hockey in Boucher hasn't had their morning coffee yet

I thought you wanted our local media to take controversial positions and question team management.

Unless I'm missing a large dose of sarcasm.

 

[thinkwild]

Often it seems like the infamous Detroit model, or habs model as i call it, of waiting until rookies are over-ripened is held up as some great ideal. And then we decry the fact that coaches wont play rookies enough. And it hardly seems like a Boucher thing to me, more of an NHL coach thing.

Chabot looks really close and also looks like he could benefit from a bit of development in the A to get some rookie thinking out of his game. Brown, didnt really look like he had won a spot yet, he seems to need more time. But definitely it seems that very soon, we are going to have a horde of great rookies beating down the door. I can patiently wait for them to be ready.

 

[Tuna99]

I thought you wanted our local media to take controversial positions and question team management.

Unless I'm missing a large dose of sarcasm.

Wheres the controversy in saying one week 'Formenton doesn't look ready' and the next week saying 'Coach doesn't play rookies'

I literally heard them say 'Brown wasn't noticeable last game but Boucher should play him more and let him make mistakes (in a game we were trailing and then needed to close out) - there's no controversy there, it's just straight up. 'Bud, we need you to talk into this radio machine for 4 hours today so talk about the rookies now because they are all getting sent back to Junior next week and we gotta milk this baby for every minute while we still can. Next week we're doing goalie controversy.'

 

[NyQuil]

Wheres the controversy in saying one week 'Formenton doesn't look ready' and the next week saying 'Coach doesn't play rookies'

I literally heard them say 'Brown wasn't noticeable last game but Boucher should play him more and let him make mistakes (in a game we were trailing and then needed to close out) - there's no controversy there, it's just straight up. 'Bud, we need you to talk into this radio machine for 4 hours today so talk about the rookies now because they are all getting sent back to Junior next week and we gotta milk this baby for every minute while we still can. Next week we're doing goalie controversy.'

I don't understand.

You don't agree with their positions but they are disagreeing with team management, I thought that's what you wanted.

For the record, I don't care about Logan Brown's deployment all that much. He's a kid, he's learning as much from the practices and hanging around the team about the system and how to be a pro, as he is in game action. I trust Boucher for the most part.

But I also don't see what's wrong with them asking questions about rookie deployment.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Boucher is a hockey genius, so anyone on TSN1200 or anyone named Pierre that wants to take a run at him and say they know Logan Browns game better then Boucher and knows what's better for the long term future of the Ottawa Senators then the greatest scout in Hockey in Dorion and the best coach in hockey in Boucher hasn't had their morning coffee yet

....please tell me you were paid to type that.

It's nice to be optimistic, but holy hell....

 

[Tuna99]

....please tell me you were paid to type that.

It's nice to be optimistic, but holy hell....

I'll be paid in being proven right

 

[Micklebot]

I understand that there is a large segment of the Ottawa fanbase that see Chabot as their shiny new toy, and they can't wait to see him inserted into the Ottawa lineup ASAP............... but I defer to the Sens Management and the Coaching staff .............. they've be tracking Chabot for a while now, and they know if he's ready for full-time NHL duty or not. The Senator's season is not hanging on whether or not Chabot is in the line up or not.

When there's a trade to open up a spot for him, or he's called up as the eighth D man (not an injury call up) then, and only then will we know he's seen as ready for the NHL............... so right now he's in the best place possible at this point in his career to be on track to make the NHL............. playing 20-25 minutes a game rather than being spotted in a game here and there in the NHL, and watching mostly from the press box is not what he needs right now to play himself into the lineup one way or another.

Sens management has claimed lots of our AHL Dmen are NHL ready, Chabot I believe included. Boucher played him more than Wideman when called up, so apparently Boucher might think he's ready too. They may feel it's better for his development to play 20+ mins in the NHL, or they may be waiting until they can deal somebody on a 1 way contract to make room financially (he makes under 100k in the AHL vs over 1 mil in the NHL), we simply do not actually know. We have what they've told the public, but what's publicly available is seldom the whole truth, there is more to it than that.

So while you claim people see him as a shiny new toy, I see people who simply have differing opinions on his current level of play. Deferring to the teams choice to keep him down is nice and all, but it isn't in itself proof that he isn't NHL ready, it's a choice made by the team but with none of the reasons or rationale they used known as to why they made it.

I do agree that watching from the press box is not what he needs, but I see a lot of other teams that are having success letting their young players learn in the NHL; Butcher, Keller, Bratt, Sergachev, McAvoy, Bpeser this year, Aho, Werenski, Point, Skjei, Nylander, Marner, Provorov, ect last year. There's nothing wrong with letting young players play through some growing pains.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Especially when you lose Smith and saw a two goal lead evaporate in the third.

Generally speaking I am fine with how Boucher has handled rookies but that last game was a perfect time to buck the trend.

 

[aragorn]

Meh, I've seen enough of McCormick by now to know what he is. He's in his fourth year of pro-hockey and already has 27 games of NHL experience under his belt. Personally, I don't think he's even close to being an NHL'er. I admire the tenacity he plays with but he's not big or talented enough to translate his effort into production. He just sort of runs around trying to hit guys but he's not big enough to lay guys out like Neiler could. Kind of sucks that he's on a one way next year which was totally avoidable since I'm pretty sure he would have still been an RFA but we know how Dorion feels about players like him, so what can ya do?

Regardless of what people think about him the Sens seem to think differently, he has a one way contract for next yr which I expect means he will be on the roster.

Sens management has claimed lots of our AHL Dmen are NHL ready, Chabot I believe included. Boucher played him more than Wideman when called up, so apparently Boucher might think he's ready too. They may feel it's better for his development to play 20+ mins in the NHL, or they may be waiting until they can deal somebody on a 1 way contract to make room financially (he makes under 100k in the AHL vs over 1 mil in the NHL), we simply do not actually know. We have what they've told the public, but what's publicly available is seldom the whole truth, there is more to it than that.

So while you claim people see him as a shiny new toy, I see people who simply have differing opinions on his current level of play. Deferring to the teams choice to keep him down is nice and all, but it isn't in itself proof that he isn't NHL ready, it's a choice made by the team but with none of the reasons or rationale they used known as to why they made it.

I do agree that watching from the press box is not what he needs, but I see a lot of other teams that are having success letting their young players learn in the NHL; Butcher, Keller, Bratt, Sergachev, McAvoy, Bpeser this year, Aho, Werenski, Point, Skjei, Nylander, Marner, Provorov, ect last year. There's nothing wrong with letting young players play through some growing pains.

I bet Harpur plays in Ottawa more this yr than Chabot.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Sens management has claimed lots of our AHL Dmen are NHL ready, Chabot I believe included. Boucher played him more than Wideman when called up, so apparently Boucher might think he's ready too. They may feel it's better for his development to play 20+ mins in the NHL, or they may be waiting until they can deal somebody on a 1 way contract to make room financially (he makes under 100k in the AHL vs over 1 mil in the NHL), we simply do not actually know. We have what they've told the public, but what's publicly available is seldom the whole truth, there is more to it than that.

So while you claim people see him as a shiny new toy, I see people who simply have differing opinions on his current level of play. Deferring to the teams choice to keep him down is nice and all, but it isn't in itself proof that he isn't NHL ready, it's a choice made by the team but with none of the reasons or rationale they used known as to why they made it.

I do agree that watching from the press box is not what he needs, but I see a lot of other teams that are having success letting their young players learn in the NHL; Butcher, Keller, Bratt, Sergachev, McAvoy, Bpeser this year, Aho, Werenski, Point, Skjei, Nylander, Marner, Provorov, ect last year. There's nothing wrong with letting young players play through some growing pains.

You list a number of rookies that are playing in the NHL, over Chabot .......... perhaps Ottawa's defensive depth chart is stronger than those other teams in regards to those players, and that is why they're not in the AHL.

I see it as a luxury right now, to have the depth to allow Chabot to develop in the AHL, until he moves himself up the depth chart, higher than third pairing at the NHL level.

As for his contract http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/ottawa-senators/thomas-chabot-18267/

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I bet Harpur plays in Ottawa more this yr than Chabot.

I also believe that Harpur is higher on the Depth chart than Chabot .......... only in the sense that he's shown he can play as high as second pairing at the NHL level... and was already called up before Chabot ................. the longer Chabot develops, in a development league. aka the AHL, the better for him and the team ............... I don't want him "Lazared" as we've all seen happen before

 

[Micklebot]

You list a number of rookies that are playing in the NHL, over Chabot .......... perhaps Ottawa's defensive depth chart is stronger than those other teams in regards to those players, and that is why they're not in the AHL.

I see it as a luxury right now, to have the depth to allow Chabot to develop in the AHL, until he moves himself up the depth chart, higher than third pairing at the NHL level.

As for his contract http://www.spotrac.com/nhl/ottawa-senators/thomas-chabot-18267/

I listed guys playing big roles, so depth isn't the issue. Ottawa has Wideman and Boro playing over Chabot while the guys I listed are playing in the top 4, so unless you also think Wideman and Boro would be top 4 players on those teams, it's not an issue.

As for his contract, you should probably go to a source that actually lists the AHL portion of his contract, he got his sigining bonus in July, but is making 70k in the AHL right now instead of 835.5k in Ottawa.

https://www.capfriendly.com/players/thomas-chabot

I also believe that Harpur is higher on the Depth chart than Chabot .......... only in the sense that he's shown he can play as high as second pairing at the NHL level... and was already called up before Chabot ................. the longer Chabot develops, in a development league. aka the AHL, the better for him and the team ............... I don't want him "Lazared" as we've all seen happen before

Bringing up Lazar is such a red herring and a lazy narrative at that; the two situations couldn't be any more different, we won't stunt Chabot's offense by playing him in the NHL (if you even are willing to believe that's what happened to Lazar, imo, he never really showed he had what it takes to be an offensive producer), Chabot's already shown he's elite, not to mention he's shown more in 3 games than Lazar has his entire career. A more apt comparison would probably be Karlsson; Chabot will be dynamic offensively, but have growing pains defensively. So many players have made the transition at Chabot's age and been fine, fear mongering that we'll ruin Chabot by rushing him by comparing him to drastically inferior prospects in guys like Lazar or Cowen only makes it seem like you can't see the difference between the quality of prospects we're dealing with.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

as much as I want to see Chabot here, and think he will be a star in the NHL.....the kid does need work on the defensive side of the puck. Kid s such a stud, that I don't want to do anything to mess him up (if it's even possible). There's no harm in spending a few months in Belleville polishing up his game and gaining confidence. Last thing I want to see is Chabot playing a "safe" game in the NHL because he's afraid of making a mistake or blowing a defensive assignment, or thinking too much.

I do think Paul is just about ready to show us what he can do. With the injuries, he seems to be the logical choice to at least try for a good 5+ games or so.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

We hear a lot about Lazar and how the Sens mismanaged him .... and stifled his development. People say this like its a fact and true without question and by extension his playing in the CHL and AHL would have seen him flourish. Try to remember this is an opinion not a fact.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

lol, damn. There really is a picture for everything.

 

[Agent Zub]

Does Max f***ing McCormick really have a one way contract with the club?

That's absolutely stupid. He's an AHL player and we're a budget team. No way he has a one way. There must be a typo.