Boucher's usage of rookies

[aragorn]

Once Brown is returned to junior, this team will be left with 11 forwards & 7 defencemen & could play with that until a 12th forward is brought in. The other option obviously is to call someone up from Belleville & it wouldn't surprise me if it was McCormick who received a two yr contract this off season & next yr he will be on a one way contract. It would probably make sense that if you are going to have him on the roster full time next season that he get some experience this yr as a 12th forward & practice time in Ottawa throughout the yr.

I would prefer Paul but I'm not sure where he is at with this management team any longer & whether they will trade him or not. I assume they would want White playing big minutes in all situations in Belleville this yr.

 

[Agent Zub]

Our 2nd best d-man isn't on the roster.

 

[BatherSeason]

Our 2nd best d-man isn't on the roster.

This is the biggest issue. Imagine having the luxury of EK and Chabot in OT . Too bad Boucher would still give start and give half of the icetime to Ceci anyways,

 

[Micklebot]

Belleville hasn't played since the 14th and now plays three games in three nights. With Smith and Boro currently hurt, and Phaneuf apparently nursing something, I wonder if we call up somebody.

I'd send Brown down because he simply hasn't got Boucher's trust, and on top of that, the roster spots available aren't the type to make use of his talents. White should be back soon I would think. Maybe he goes down to Bingo and we call someone else up until he settles in.

All that said, I'm not sure Boucher's ice management is a rookie thing; look at Wideman for evidence. To me, he puts you in if he thinks you can play the system and make the right reads regardless of how old you are.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Steller Keller with 2 goals last night. Now has 5 so far. I wonder if he would get any ice time here.

 

[Mingus Dew]

Belleville hasn't played since the 14th and now plays three games in three nights. With Smith and Boro currently hurt, and Phaneuf apparently nursing something, I wonder if we call up somebody.

I'd send Brown down because he simply hasn't got Boucher's trust, and on top of that, the roster spots available aren't the type to make use of his talents. White should be back soon I would think. Maybe he goes down to Bingo and we call someone else up until he settles in.

All that said, I'm not sure Boucher's ice management is a rookie thing; look at Wideman for evidence. To me, he puts you in if he thinks you can play the system and make the right reads regardless of how old you are.

Yeah I’m not a fan of Brown just riding the pine indefinitely. If the dude isn’t good/responsible enough for NHL hockey right now then send him down and call up someone who can play realistic minutes.

We can’t play 10-11 forwards every night - it’s not sustainable.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah I’m not a fan of Brown just riding the pine indefinitely. If the dude isn’t good/responsible enough for NHL hockey right now then send him down and call up someone who can play realistic minutes.

We can’t play 10-11 forwards every night - it’s not sustainable.

I don't mind going 11-7, but 12-6 with a forward getting 5 mins and a D getting 7 isn't going to work when your healthy little lone on nights you lose another guy halfway in.

If it were me, I'd call-up Chabot, send down Brown and go with something like this:

Hoffman-Turris-Dzingel
Ryan-Brassard-Stone
Smith-Pageau-Pyatt
Burrows-Thompson-double shifted forward

Claesson-Karlsson
Oduya-Ceci
Phaneuf-Chabot
Boro (or ideally Harpur, whom I prefer)

Trade Wideman for picks, or in a package to upgrade somewhere else. Boucher doesn't trust him, and we have two better PP options in Karlsson and Chabot.

 

[Mingus Dew]

I don't mind going 11-7, but 12-6 with a forward getting 5 mins and a D getting 7 isn't going to work when your healthy little lone on nights you lose another guy halfway in.

If it were me, I'd call-up Chabot, send down Brown and go with something like this:

Hoffman-Turris-Dzingel
Ryan-Brassard-Stone
Smith-Pageau-Pyatt
Burrows-Thompson-double shifted forward

Claesson-Karlsson
Oduya-Ceci
Phaneuf-Chabot
Boro (or ideally Harpur, whom I prefer)

Trade Wideman for picks, or in a package to upgrade somewhere else. Boucher doesn't trust him, and we have two better PP options in Karlsson and Chabot.

I’m hoping things will get better once White and Paul are available. Both should be safe/responsible enough to merit more ice time than an offensive player like Brown.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m hoping things will get better once White and Paul are available. Both should be safe/responsible enough to merit more ice time than an offensive player like Brown.

They'd both be better fits for the role our 4th line plays tbh. Brown needs to be in a top 6 role the way this team is built atm or we need to change how/who our 3rd line plays.

Paul I think is ready anytime, he's played 3 games in Belleville, and baring a callup or injury will play 3 more over the next 3 nights. White must be close now. I kind of hope they send White down for some conditioning though, wouldn't be fair to throw him right in.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

I don't mind going 11-7, but 12-6 with a forward getting 5 mins and a D getting 7 isn't going to work when your healthy little lone on nights you lose another guy halfway in.

If it were me, I'd call-up Chabot, send down Brown and go with something like this:

Hoffman-Turris-Dzingel
Ryan-Brassard-Stone
Smith-Pageau-Pyatt
Burrows-Thompson-double shifted forward

Claesson-Karlsson
Oduya-Ceci
Phaneuf-Chabot
Boro (or ideally Harpur, whom I prefer)

Trade Wideman for picks, or in a package to upgrade somewhere else. Boucher doesn't trust him, and we have two better PP options in Karlsson and Chabot.

Wideman is one of 7 Dmen on the Roster with one way contracts .......... no point in sitting him, and playing a "call up"....... his spot on the roster is Chabot's for the taking, and until then, I see Wideman as a place holder, on a extremely team and cap friendly contract, who will be a UFA at the end of the season and or could fetch something much more at the trade deadline, than anything they could get today, to simply open up a spot for Chabot ........... who is not ready for full-time NHL duty just yet ...... and management will act when he is.

So it is my belief that Wideman is more valuable to the Sens, in his "placeholder" role than anything he may fetch in trade to another team.

 

[BondraTime]

Brown needs to go back to the OHL.

Chabot needs to be in the NHL, though the trick is getting him here. Not as simple.

As to Keller getting playing time here, I highly doubt it, even though it's obvious he should.

 

[Micklebot]

Wideman is one of 7 Dmen on the Roster with one way contracts .......... no point in sitting him, and playing a "call up"....... his spot on the roster is Chabot's for the taking, and until then, I see Wideman as a place holder, on a extremely team and cap friendly contract, who will be a UFA at the end of the season and or could fetch something much more at the trade deadline, than anything they could get today, to simply open up a spot for Chabot ........... who is not ready for full-time NHL duty just yet ...... and management will act when he is.

So it is my belief that Wideman is more valuable to the Sens, in his "placeholder" role than anything he may fetch in trade to another team.

Agree to disagree I guess. Why have a placeholder if he's playing 7 mins. Boucher doesn't trust him and it puts the whole team behind the eight ball if he doesn't play his share of the mins. His usage is potentially costing us pts in the standings. We have Chabot, Harpur, and Boro who Boucher seems to trust as much or more than him. He serves little purpose right now imo, and his value at the deadline certainly won't improve if he keeps playing such limited mins.

As for whether Chabot is or isn't ready, he's already better offensively than Wideman, and Boucher seems to trust him as much defensively. I'd much rather have Chabot myself. I'm hoping he'll play his way into our lineup as early as this weeked; 3 games in 3 nights to prove himself.

 

[Tuna99]

Colin White is going to get healthy and this discussion will be totally muted.

White will play important minutes and Everyone complaining about rookie play will switch to asking why a rookie was on the ice late in a game when we have such a veteran lineup.

Remember when the great franchises, Detroit, New Jersey, Montreal kept their rookies in the A until they were ready for pro hockey. How quickly we all forget what winning franchises look like. Ottawa and Boucher are doing this right.

Relax everybody, Relax

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Definitely possible that White returning might change things a lot, as high as I am on him I totally forgot about him.

Also interesting to see that Boucher defintely upped the ice time on rookies last year so I have to assume that Brown and Chabot will see plenty of ice in the near future/once it is established that they are staying

 

[SensHulk]

Pierre Mcguire really laid into Boucher and his handling of rookies after only playing Logan Brown less than 6 mins last night. Mentioned that it's demoralizing for a player to keep proving themselves again and again, mentioned it was a travesty what happened with colin white last year in detroit

 

[Do Make Say Think]

I don'T remember Pierre being that harsh about Boucher regarding White.

It was do-or-die whenever White was here: securing home ice and Game 7 against the Penguins. Disappointing but it made sense.

Last night did not.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

Pierre Mcguire really laid into Boucher and his handling of rookies after only playing Logan Brown less than 6 mins last night. Mentioned that it's demoralizing for a player to keep proving themselves again and again, mentioned it was a travesty what happened with colin white last year in detroit

what the hell? How would that have been a travesty? Colin White was a brand new player late in the season not knowing anything about our system.

 

[SensHulk]

I was paraphrasing. Travesty wasn't the exact word but he did call it 'unacceptable'. Take a listen:

http://proxy.autopod.ca/download/podcasts/chum/22/57549/PM 102017.mp3

9 min mark is where he discusses White

 

[ToastrStutzle]

Colin White is going to get healthy and this discussion will be totally muted.

White will play important minutes and Everyone complaining about rookie play will switch to asking why a rookie was on the ice late in a game when we have such a veteran lineup.

Remember when the great franchises, Detroit, New Jersey, Montreal kept their rookies in the A until they were ready for pro hockey. How quickly we all forget what winning franchises look like. Ottawa and Boucher are doing this right.

Relax everybody, Relax

What makes you think Boucher will do this? White barely saw the ice anytime he was dressed last year.

 

[HSF]

brown is still a teenager who has a lot of development left

If he was a 22-23 year old guy breaking into the league he would probably be on the roster


White just went pro so again its a bit premature even he barely has placed in the AHL

 

[DaveMatthew]

brown is still a teenager who has a lot of development left

If he was a 22-23 year old guy breaking into the league he would probably be on the roster


White just went pro so again its a bit premature even he barely has placed in the AHL

It's a different league today. In the late 90's/early 2000's, players needed more time to develop physically to handle the grind of being an everyday player in a clutch and grab league. The rules are enforced much differently now, and players with speed and skill can thrive, even those who aren't as physically "ready".

Let's all give Boucher some more time, since last year, I don't think there were any players close enough to expect them to make a jump. But this year, if Chabot and White aren't contributors to this team by February, it'll be very disappointing.

At some point you have to accept the risk that a young player makes some mistakes because of their potential to makeup for it with big plays. Will Boucher? Who knows. He seems to like to defer to guys like Pyatt, Burrows, Thompson, etc. Sure, they're "safe" and "responsible", but they also won't make any game changing plays.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's a different league today. In the late 90's/early 2000's, players needed more time to develop physically to handle the grind of being an everyday player in a clutch and grab league. The rules are enforced much differently now, and players with speed and skill can thrive, even those who aren't as physically "ready".

Let's all give Boucher some more time, since last year, I don't think there were any players close enough to expect them to make a jump. But this year, if Chabot and White aren't contributors to this team by February, it'll be very disappointing.

At some point you have to accept the risk that a young player makes some mistakes because of their potential to makeup for it with big plays. Will Boucher? Who knows. He seems to like to defer to guys like Pyatt, Burrows, Thompson, etc. Sure, they're "safe" and "responsible", but they also won't make any game changing plays.

Its also an investment in the young player and the AHL will teach young players some lessons, but not all the lessons they need to be in the NHL for. I have no issues with the young guys spending some time in the AHL to get used to systems and the pro game and to work on specific aspects of their game. We have some promising prospects ...the organization will soon be in a position to make some roster moves both upgrade some of the players we have now and make room for the some of the kids to play... Several not far off ; Chabot, Brown, White, Chlapik, Jaros, Lajoie, Paul more coming ; Bowers, Formenton, Batherson, Wolanin, Nurmi, Perron... There has to be a plan, and maybe an adjustment in some of the current thinking. (yes I realize not all will pan out to be NHL players but the future looks good for many of these guys)

 

[BondraTime]

It's disheartening seeing guys like Boeser/Keller/Bratt/Hischier/Girard/Dunn/Sergachev/McAvoy etc. get actual ice time and opportunity, and show their worth.

Obviously different teams different opportunities, that I know, but teams are giving them a chance to succeed in conjunction with their skillset, none of this Brown getting 5 minutes with the 4th line.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

It's disheartening seeing guys like Boeser/Keller/Bratt/Hischier/Girard/Dunn/Sergachev/McAvoy etc. get actual ice time and opportunity, and show their worth.

Obviously different teams different opportunities, that I know, but teams are giving them a chance to succeed in conjunction with their skillset, none of this Brown getting 5 minutes with the 4th line.

I feel ya. Add Mete to that list as well. I do not see the point in dressing a junior aged player to have them sit on the bench just because the game is close... Let him watch if you want to keep him up or send him back to play. Hopefully its just that we are at a crossroads but there is a mindset that Dorion should help develop that we can get young players in the lineup and get them icetime...Brown, Formenton, Jaros and Chabot all showed some good things in their limited opportunities

 

[Boud]

What makes you think Boucher will do this? White barely saw the ice anytime he was dressed last year.

At training camp Boucher used White against top lines and talked about how dependable White was and how responsible defensively that he was for his age - which is true and fairly rare for a player his age.

After acknowledging that, I have no doubt that White will be part of this team when coming back. He's our best bet to stick with the big club and to gain Boucher's trust because he is the type of player coaches rave about.

Colin White was used by team USA as the main shutdown C against the best players in the world of his age group. Boucher wants that on his team.