Before anyone says anything I think Laine can be a 40/40 guys too but I have more faith in Matthews to reach that and would be less surprised to see Matthews surpass that plateau.
Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round V (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)
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He may have more room to grow, but Matthews still has as tremendous untapped upside as well. Just because Laine has more room to grow now does not mean that his ceiling is higher.
Atomos2
Registered User
Essentially what you are saying is that because Matthews is more NHL ready, he has the lower ceiling.
goblin3
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- Mar 23, 2014
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Laine has better wrister, hands and is better at protecting the puck. Might have better top speed. Plays very physical.
He can take any kind of shot anywhere in the offensive zone and it will be dangerous.
He will be a nightmare to defend against once he gets some muscle and acceleration.
If Matthews has 40 goal potential then Laine definitely has 50 goal potential IMO.
The Leafs should and will draft the BPA with the highest ceiling - That's Matthews.
I find this to be a really interesting narrative that's sprouted up around here lately. Mainly because I haven't read a single instance of a scout or professional hockey person sharing this viewpoint.
I don't generally default to the appeal to authority, but I think it really needs to be taken into consideration that everyone I've heard within the game sees Matthews as an absolute stud. Not a steady 60 point Mikko Koivu type of 1A centre, but a guy with a real chance to be a franchise player with names like Kopitar, Toews, Sakic, Francis put out as comparables.
Has there been an instance of a scout, analyst, or GM giving him the "safe pick, might not have the extra gear" treatment that we've seen for other big centres who might be more safe than dynamic (Strome recently, for instance)?
As a fan whose only seen these guys play at the WJC and now this current Worlds, there's no doubt who I want the Leafs to take. It's not even so much about comparing the players, as it is that Matthews has just not given me a reason not to want him as the pick. He looks to be the perfect fit for our team, and appears to have as much promise as any prospect short of McDavid that we've seen over the last 10 years.
Essentially what you are saying is that because Matthews is more NHL ready, he has the lower ceiling.
I think it's more than that. Matthews seems to have the all the creativity beaten out of him. He is afraid of making mistakes and hence does not have the mentality of a star player. He will make the safe play 10 times out of 10.
Laine does not have this mentality. He is much more ambitious on the ice, confident that he can take risks due to his ability.
Stephen23
Registered User
The thing is, the Leafs don't have a guy yet. They have a choice. All of this is fans looking at both players and evaluating and determining who is a better player. Better does not make one player bad. I have been reading this thread and have no idea why some are so upset when people say that they have Matthews ranked ahead of Laine. By no means does that translate to Laine will be a terrible player. Leafs can only choose one player. If they could choose two, they would be taking Laine aswell and smiling while they do. Laine will be elite. But so will Matthews. The bottom line is that Laine is a very, very dangerous offensive player. But when you have an elite #1 center with a good frame, elite offensive abilities and shot, shows a 2 way game and wants to learn and become better. It's a slam dunk.
But Laine will be the kind of player that you instantly recognize when he is on the ice. He will draw a lot of attention and will have a constant shadow on him. If I have a minor slight on him, I think he needs to improve his skating a tad as I could see that causing potential issues. But he is also very large and strong that he can also overcome a lot of that with his body type alone. Not a criticism, just one minor thing I noticed while watching him play along the boards. Matthews could probably improve in faceoff draws which will come with experience and age.
He will be a GREAT player. But so will Matthews. Win-Win-Win for Jets, Leafs and Blue Jackets. If the Leafs surprise and select Laine, I will be happy (especially because odds were they would have drafted a lesser player at 4th). But Matthews is the best overall player available and the best fit for the Leafs long term. Laine will be a monster though. Can't wait to watch him in the NHL. Should be a fun career to watch.
But Laine will be the kind of player that you instantly recognize when he is on the ice. He will draw a lot of attention and will have a constant shadow on him. If I have a minor slight on him, I think he needs to improve his skating a tad as I could see that causing potential issues. But he is also very large and strong that he can also overcome a lot of that with his body type alone. Not a criticism, just one minor thing I noticed while watching him play along the boards. Matthews could probably improve in faceoff draws which will come with experience and age.
He will be a GREAT player. But so will Matthews. Win-Win-Win for Jets, Leafs and Blue Jackets. If the Leafs surprise and select Laine, I will be happy (especially because odds were they would have drafted a lesser player at 4th). But Matthews is the best overall player available and the best fit for the Leafs long term. Laine will be a monster though. Can't wait to watch him in the NHL. Should be a fun career to watch.
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Patmac40
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That's flat out not true at all. He has flash to his game and does show it. Won't show it every shift and is economical in the way he uses it but he has plenty of offensive creativity. I'm honestly not sure how you made up that narrative in your head.
Disagree, nope, nope, nope, aaaaaaaaaand nope.
Matthews wrister is Sakic-esque. Him and Laine both have filthy wristers, one isn't better than the other there.
Matthews hands are ridiculously filthy as well, he doesn't try to embarrass defenders (Although he can), he is much more efficient than that. Every single scout RAVES about his hands.
Both are ridiculously good at protecting the puck. Matthews is has an advantage since he is better on the boards.
Matthews' skating is elite, Laine's is sub par or average, this is well documented, even if Laine has better top end speed (Which he doesn't). Matthews is currently a better skater than Laine likely ever is, you can say Laine can improve, but so can Matthews. Just because Laine is a worse skater now does not mean he will improve his skating more than Matthews will improve his.
They both have high goal scoring potential. Laine's one timer/slapshot does not outweigh Matthews' greasy goal ability, significantly better skating, and better hockey IQ. These factors will balance out and they will likely score goals at a similar rate. Matthews' is a natural goal scorer. He will lead all NHL rookies in Shots on goal next season. Laine will lead in powerplay goals.
Laine is better offensively on the Powerplay (Although Matthews is dangerous there too) and Matthews is better offensively 5v5 (Although Laine is dangerous there too).
- May 3, 2016
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I want Matthews big time but even I can see that Laine has the potential to be a beast!!.
If he fills out, adapts to less time/space, learns a 2 way game and uses his size he has Jagr level upside.
Thing is Matthews is way safer to hit his 80+ point 2 way franchiser C upside than Laine does JAgr.
Then even if they both hit their full potential it then comes down to preference, the 50 goal 100 point winger or the 80 point do it all center.
See, no. That's what people don't get. Laine doesn't have higher offensive upside than Matthews. At the very least not 20 points more.
Laine doesn't have 50 goal 100 point upside. That's just wild.
As a Jet's fan, im just so incredibly excited to have the opportunity to get one of these guys at the draft. I agree with the Crosby and Ovi comparisons regarding the differences in their style of game (not saying that they will be Crosby and Ovi). im 90% certain that we will be taking Laine with the 2nd pick and couldn't be happier.
I think with two very highly touted prospects, you take the C every time, unless the winger is clearly above (the Fins vs PLD as an example). Both players are outstanding and will be bringing a much needed breath of fresh air to the organizations they go to. As Matthews is more well rounded at this time and considering his C position, along with the Leafs need for a #1C (franchise potential nonetheless), he will be the #1 pick this draft. He also the majority consensus as well. However it is noted that some scouts have Laine #1 and some teams have admitted this as well (Per Bob Mack). This doesn't make them wrong either. If his skating was on par or better than Matthews, would he be considered the better prospect to most of you? Everyone will have varying opinions and the back and forth in this thread tearing apart the other prospect to justify their own opinion is a joke. They most likely will have long successful careers in the NHL and who will have the more successful career is yet to be seen, despite anyone's opinion or projections.
I think with two very highly touted prospects, you take the C every time, unless the winger is clearly above (the Fins vs PLD as an example). Both players are outstanding and will be bringing a much needed breath of fresh air to the organizations they go to. As Matthews is more well rounded at this time and considering his C position, along with the Leafs need for a #1C (franchise potential nonetheless), he will be the #1 pick this draft. He also the majority consensus as well. However it is noted that some scouts have Laine #1 and some teams have admitted this as well (Per Bob Mack). This doesn't make them wrong either. If his skating was on par or better than Matthews, would he be considered the better prospect to most of you? Everyone will have varying opinions and the back and forth in this thread tearing apart the other prospect to justify their own opinion is a joke. They most likely will have long successful careers in the NHL and who will have the more successful career is yet to be seen, despite anyone's opinion or projections.
Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? Because Laine isn't as good now means he can be that much better, really?
I believe he means that Laine is the more raw talent who has the much steeper development curve.
Essentially what you are saying is that because Matthews is more NHL ready, he has the lower ceiling.
Did you not know that players stop developing once they are out of their teens? It is proven fact. Logically since Matthews is slightly older than Laine, Laine has more time to develop before he hits 20. This will give Laine time to catch and surpass Matthews in all of the many facets of his game where Matthews is currently better
Honestly, I like Laine, a lot. I would love to add someone with his skillset to my team. Most years I would be thinking that Laine would be a number one choice in the NHL draft but with a guy like Matthews, whose overall game is more complete and has just as high a ceiling offensively, there is no way I would be taking Laine first overall. This is not meant as an insult to Laine who has been nothing short of brilliant this year and has shown himself to be a very special talent, but the same holds true for Matthews whose game is more rounded. Laine will score the big goal for you, as will Matthews, but will he kill the important penalties or be on the ice in the dying moments of a tight game to hold the lead as Matthews will be? In my eyes the better player is the player who does everything well, not merely score goals.
It would be close if Laine's skating were as good as Matthews, but that is a massive advantage that Matthews holds on Laine and should continue to hold throughout their careers.
goblin3
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- Mar 23, 2014
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Well, that's just your opinion.
Now let's see what a scout has to say:
http://www.mckeenshockey.com/prospects-blog/mckeens-2016-top-30-nhl-draft-rankings-apr-2016/
Lonny Bohonos
Registered User
Essentially what you are saying is that because Matthews is more NHL ready, he has the lower ceiling.
Its laughable really.
Laine fanbois are like:
"Laine is better than Pulju because even though Pulju hasmore raw potential Laine is already proving it."
"Laine is better than Matthews because even though Matthews is already proving it Laine has more raw potential."
Plus seemingly all of Laines weaknesses which he has few of are easily fixable.
So really he will be the best player ever. Better than his apparent comparable Lemieux.
I like Laine but the over hyping has made it near impossible to not argue back.
FFS.
Lonny Bohonos
Registered User
It just sounded that way, especially when you're straight up calling my opinion wrong, claiming that I'm unable to be objective because I'm a leafs fan.
Both players are great, If I thought Laine was better I'd come out and say it. But IMO I don't think he is. Right now I think they're close obviously, but I like Matthews game better, especially for the leafs.
Gsus
MVP
Based on what should Matthews' 'massive advantage' in skating to Laine continue throughout their careers? Like this is something that Laine wouldn't have the potential to develop a lot and the advantage would still be massive for AM?
Lonny Bohonos
Registered User
Nobody compares Matthews to Crosby.
That only happens because Laine fanbois think Laine is the next Ovi.
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