Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round V (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[Pyromaniac]

http://www.iltalehti.fi/mmjaakiekko-2016/2016051121544757_jj.shtml

Based on this NHL-scout Laine was better than Matthews in FIN-USA game.

Post the translation. I think Laine is going to end up the better player but Matthews had the better game that day. I also think he is the better player for now but Laine is going to surpass him in the long run and become the much better player.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

http://www.iltalehti.fi/mmjaakiekko-2016/2016051121544757_jj.shtml

Based on this NHL-scout Laine was better than Matthews in FIN-USA game.

This scout was as unbiased as the one who said "Eichel can't even carry Matthews' skates to the rink".

 

[Plural]

So, one player has to fix things such as skating, strength, and two-way skills, but the guy who already is better in those skills has the lower ceiling?

Seems unfair don't you think? Unless Matthews has hit his prime at the age of 18.

I think the point is that Laine has some of the tools/aspects in his game that Matthews just simply doesn't. I'm not saying these comparisons are flawless, but one might consider Laine having better scoring touch/shot arsenal/offensive instincts/etc. and thus thinking he has the higher ceiling. It's completely reasonable. I personally see Matthews being so strong all-around that he's a sure bet. Almost no bust potential. Laine on the other hand, possess skills that are harder to translate in to the NHL ice, but if he manages to do so, he might be one of the best goal-scorers in the NHL and one can see that being higher ceiling than what Matthews has.

These two are close enough for these comparison to be warranted.

 

[eppe]

Well, their hands are pretty much tied in the sense that the best player in this draft happens to play the exact position the need and is considered more valuable.

So yeah, "their hands are pretty much tied".

Note: I do think Laine is really close to Matthews.

The greatest strenght Matthews has is truly his position. Good and mature centers are more valuable in need, as this is the case now. Imo Laine is greater game maker and his hockey IQ is something unbelievable. He passes when it's needed and usually really good ones, too. He has eyes tightly set on the game. He creates goal possibilities when he cannot score himself. That is really amazing for an 18 years old. He did some really good maturing when playing in Tappara, and I think these current games will give him even greater leaps in sense of developing. He will be a great star. And he should be the first drafted.

 

[stavs*]

I honestly think that Laine is a better passer also. But imo they are so close in that department that its a matter of opinion. Laine also have better hands than Matthews. When Patrik grows fully in to his tall body then i expect him to be better physically. He hits also pretty good when he does.

For clarification theres lots of things that AM does better, and at the moments is the better player/prospect, especially for NHL.

Edit. And I do think Laine have the higher ceiling.

Don't be fooled by Matthews' lack of dazzling defenders 1 on 1, thats not his game. Infact his entire game isn't going to electrify anyone, but watch how quickly he works the puck in corners, in areas where there is no space, in tight spaces where he's outnumbered, and come back and tell me his hands aren't as good as Laine's. What makes his hands special is not necessarily that its pretty (although it sometimes can be), but they are quick, smooth and efficient. People watch a few youtube videos and think they have these players figured out, but its not until you watch a lot of their games to understand the style of game they play and how they use their skillets at different times during a game. This is the same misconception that people seem to have about his offensive game too. People seem to think that because Laine is the flashier offensive player means he's the better offensive player. That couldn't be further from the actual truth and it's been discredited multiple times here with statistics. I'm here to tell you that his hands are just as good as Laine's too. They are not Datsyuk or Kane level hands, but then again no one has hands like them.

 

[kunekune]

Post the translation. I think Laine is going to end up the better player but Matthews had the better game that day. I also think he is the better player for now but Laine is going to surpass him in the long run and become the much better player.

Translation:

NHL-scout knocks the claims that Matthews was better in FIN-USA game.

Didn't anyone see how Laine dominated the game in 2nd period. Laine took puck away in 3rd period which led to winning goal. If Matthews had his part in one USA goal it was Laine who did his part in winning goal.

You have to remember that Laine left the ice as a winner and Matthews as a loser ( of the game).

NHL scout had his eyes on faceoffs. Did you look what Matthews did in faceoffs. He won couple in neutral zone but lost every faceoff when it counted.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Post the translation. I think Laine is going to end up the better player but Matthews had the better game that day. I also think he is the better player for now but Laine is going to surpass him in the long run and become the much better player.

There is nothing to suggest this is even remotely the case...Laine was better than Matthews in the Fin/USA game..yah not a chance. Matthews was one of the top players on the ice. The "scout" should be embarrassed.

 

[stavs*]

The greatest strenght Matthews has is truly his position. Good and mature centers are more valuable in need, as this is the case now. Imo Laine is greater game maker and his hockey IQ is something unbelievable. He passes when it's needed and usually really good ones, too. He has eyes tightly set on the game. He creates goal possibilities when he cannot score himself. That is really amazing for an 18 years old. He did some really good maturing when playing in Tappara, and I think these current games will give him even greater leaps in sense of developing. He will be a great star. And he should be the first drafted.

Sounds like you don't know Matthews' at all. He has ALOT of things that Laine does not have that makes him a consensus #1 right now. His defensive game alone makes him that much more valuable because no only will he get you goals like Laine, he will also help prevent goals which Laine has limited abilities in right now. When you can score and prevent goals, you're going to be one of the most important cogs in a championship team.

 

[stavs*]

Translation:

NHL-scout knocks the claims that Matthews was better in FIN-USA game.

Didn't anyone see how Laine dominated the game in 2nd period. Laine took puck away in 3rd period which led to winning goal. If Matthews had his part in one USA goal it was Laine who did his part in winning goal.

You have to remember that Laine left the ice as a winner and Matthews as a loser ( of the game).

NHL scout had his eyes on faceoffs. Did you look what Matthews did in faceoffs. He won couple in neutral zone but lost every faceoff when it counted.

[mod]

Also one game means nothing in face-offs, he went 7-2 in the dot against a better Canadian team.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

The greatest strenght Matthews has is truly his position. Good and mature centers are more valuable in need, as this is the case now. Imo Laine is greater game maker and his hockey IQ is something unbelievable. He passes when it's needed and usually really good ones, too. He has eyes tightly set on the game. He creates goal possibilities when he cannot score himself. That is really amazing for an 18 years old. He did some really good maturing when playing in Tappara, and I think these current games will give him even greater leaps in sense of developing. He will be a great star. And he should be the first drafted.

Matthews possesses all these same attributes. What separates them is Matthews 2 way game, Matthews skating and Laine one timer/slap shot. This notion that Matthews doesn't have through the roof offensive ability is just pure nonsense. He's been wildly productive at every level....

 

[JetsFan815]

You do realize relative Corsi isn't solely to see if he's good defensively right !?
Player can have an elite Relative Corsi for, but has a downright terrible relative corsi against. When it's all said and down, he'll have a positive relative corsi.

In Laine's case, he's elite of the elite offensively (which is what I said) and that reflects in his relative corsi. My bad though, you're right. My choice of words 'atrocious' isn't accurate. But his d-game isn't on the same level remotely as Pulj and Matthews.

You made me dig into the numbers to calculate Relative Corsi Against and Relative Corsi For, for players on Laine's team and you are still wrong (even more that I expected)

-|CF/60|CA/60|CF/60 RelTeam|CA/60 RelTeam
Patrik Laine|40.17|35.19|1.41|-6.29
Team | 38.75 | 41.47 | - | -

CF/60=higher is better. CA/60=lower is better.

So much for the "Laine sucks defensively" narrative. As you can see Laine has amazing shot suppression numbers. There's one other player on his team with > 15 games that allows fewer corsi events against/60 than Laine does. This should show you to not blindly believe or spew a narrative.

All numbers derived from data that's available here http://liiga.fi/tilastot/2015-2016/...player_stats=enhanced&sort=Nimi#stats-wrapper

 

[Mahonkinen]

Don't be fooled by Matthews' lack of dazzling defenders 1 on 1, thats not his game. Infact his entire game isn't going to electrify anyone, but watch how quickly he works the puck in corners, in areas where there is no space, in tight spaces where he's outnumbered, and come back and tell me his hands aren't as good as Laine's. What makes his hands special is not necessarily that its pretty (although it sometimes can be), but they are quick, smooth and efficient. People watch a few youtube videos and think they have these players figured out, but its not until you watch a lot of their games to understand the style of game they play and how they use their skillets at different times during a game. This is the same misconception that people seem to have about his offensive game too. People seem to think that because Laine is the flashier offensive player means he's the better offensive player. That couldn't be further from the actual truth and it's been discredited multiple times here with statistics. I'm here to tell you that his hands are just as good as Laine's too. They are not Datsyuk or Kane level hands, but then again no one has hands like them.

I dont watch youtube highlights on players i try to at least in theory give an unbiased opinion.

AM also seems to out muscle other players in boards. Laine also has good hands in tight space, dont let youtube highlight dazzle you to think that all he does is toe drags.

 

[Plural]

Yeah, watching Matthews play you would never believe he's only 18. The maturity his game has is marvelous. He's going to jump in and have an impact immediately. He seems like a perfect image of modern day NHL #1 center. Great player on both ends of the rink, drives the net, has a nose for the net and great playmaking abilities. His skating is top-notch and his hands in tight seem great. On top of that, he already is a 100% professional. Acts and talks like a full NHL pro. Not much more you can ask from your #1 C.

Laine on the other hand is completely different. His offensive instincts are at least on par. His offensive creativity is a step ahead of Matthews. He protects the puck better than any prospect I've ever seen. He can take a shot off from any point in the offensive zone and it will be dangerous. When in the OZ, Laine is basically dangerous every single second no matter where he is. If he gets the puck, his ability to get off a dangerous shot is uncanny. His hands are great and his 1-on-1 abilities are world class. His acceleration needs to get better, or he won't be able to force those 1-on-1 situations often enough. If Laine manages to improve his acceleration, I see him having potential for one of the best offensive players in the world.

Both guys awesome prospects with vastly different styles. Both project to be great 1st line players. Matthews being ahead of development, but Laine is riding a curve like I've never seen.

 

[stavs*]

I dont watch youtube highlights on players i try to at least in theory give an unbiased opinion.

AM also seems to out muscle other players in boards. Laine also has good hands in tight space, dont let youtube highlight dazzle you to think that all he does is toe drags.

Clearly it is not unbiased but uneducated because it seems clear you don't know that aspect of Matthews'. When people talk about Matthews' one of the things that always gets brought up is his hands and puck handling skills. It's probably one of his top assets next to his vision, IQ and skating

 

[Mahonkinen]

Clearly it is not unbiased but uneducated because it seems clear you don't know that aspect of Matthews'. When people talk about Matthews' one of the things that always gets brought up is his hands and puck handling skills. It's probably one of his top assets next to his vision, IQ and skating

For some reason you think that I dont think that AM has great hands. Thats not the case, I just think Laine has better.

 

[stavs*]

For some reason you think that I dont think that AM has great hands. Thats not the case, I just think Laine has better.

and I'm telling you that you need to watch more AM.

 

[teravaineSAROS]

I'm officially retiring from this thread.

Most of the people being all loud in this thread have only seen one of them more than 10 times.

 

[Mahonkinen]

and I'm telling you that you need to watch more AM.

Thats true. But I think that conserns pretty much every1 on these boards, now would you agree?

Include Laine in to it also.

 

[Plural]

and I'm telling you that you need to watch more AM.

Why? He already said he's seen Matthews and he still thinks Laine has better hands. You sound like a broken record.

 

[ConnorTO]

auston is an absolute complete full player...

he plays a complete game

but similar to mc david he has the eyes on the ice
and can read plays like a mofo aka the IQ

he has an extreme defensive game
that is an amazing trait for such a young kid...

like cut me a break
this guy is the next...

ovechkin made love to sundin

 

[stavs*]

Thats true. But I think that conserns pretty much every1 on these boards, now would you agree?

Include Laine in to it also.

I ask questions in most prospects threads because I don't watch any of them play, I only really watch the top 5-10. I leave it for other posters to fill me in with information.

But going back to his hands, they are both have different elements that make their hands unique. Laine has a super good reach, and really smooth, almost a flawless motion with the puck. His hands are comparable but obviously not as good as Datsyuk. His 1 on 1 skills are superb and I've noticed his hands compensate for his lack of skating which speaks volumes about how good they are.

When I see Matthews' hands, I see some elements of Kane's hands with his quick stick handling, like he's one move ahead of the defender, not as flashy but extremely efficient. His main asset for his hands is quickness and smoothness. The puck looks glued to his stick sometimes. It just works and gets the job done but you appreciate it more as you see him come out corners, battles and scrums with the puck.

 

[ConnorTO]

you can actually make the comparison with crosby and ovi

crosby is the overall better player with more tools of the trade
while ovi is pretty much just known for his goal scoring
but i assume he can set up plays as well

matthews the next one

 

[stavs*]

Why? He already said he's seen Matthews and he still thinks Laine has better hands. You sound like a broken record.

read my post above

 

[Plural]

read my post above

I agree with your assertion. Though I think Kane has visually amazing hands too. It's almost impossible to say with certainty which is better. Both guys having their strengths.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

you can actually make the comparison with crosby and ovi

crosby is the overall better player with more tools of the trade
while ovi is pretty much just known for his goal scoring
but i assume he can set up plays as well

matthews the next one

I like Ovi. A lot.

I have a soft spot for Crosby as he seems to be a bit of Rodney Dangerfield type of player were he is constantly criticised for "not showing up" even though he manages to get it done time and time again.

Is there a player who gets more threads about "Is Crosby Finished"?

A perfect example was the 2014 Olympics where Crosby appeared to take on a different role due to Canada icing enough goal scorers.

The thing with Crosby isn't so much his "wider skill sets" its that he completely understands the team game and understands his role will adapt from time to time.