Around the NHL, 2016-2017 Part II

[Winger98]

When's the last time a Stamkos made it to free agency or was traded? Every team in the league is signing a 27 year old former 60 goal scorer. Letting Stamkos 'go' and signing a kid who (perhaps rightfully) went against the organization's orders isn't something that happens.

I definitely agree with the Filppula and Callahan stuff, both are weak and needless players, but you keep Stamkos given the opportunity. Plenty of players have had major injuries and still had great careers. No reason to get too spooked about it. Though I do remember people saying we should get rid of Z during his back issues.

Suter/Parise? If we're just talking highend guys, I guess Weber/Subban? Again, though, just because it doesn't happen very often doesn't mean it wasn't the wrong move. Yeah, Stamkos lit the lamp a lot. So does Ovechkin. I don't think either pushes a team to a championship the way Yzerman/Feds did for us, or Sakic/Forsberg. Or even a Kane/Toews. I think they are more like Brett Hull or Marian Hossa, Great, great players...but they are guys you add if you can.

And I don't see Flip/Callahan as something that can be held separate of Stamkos. If Yzerman doesn't hand out those deals, or at least doesn't toss in the NMC/NTCs so willingly he could have manufactured more breathing room to sign Stamkos, keep the rest of the team together, and still look at his blueline.

Instead, because of the Flip/Callahan deals, and then re-signing Stamkos rather than dealing him for whatever (it would have been a decent return, but I really don't feel like getting that far into the weeds on this thing), Yzerman has now had to deal Flip, flip Drouin for some inexpensive hope on the blueline, and still look to lose quality depth in the expansion draft for the sake of Callahan.

Given their cap situation, re-signing Stamkos was a mistake, regardless of how often it happens that a guy like that is moved.

He was playing amazing to start the year and had 20 points in 17 games. They won 11 of those 17.

His only issue is he can't stay healthy, otherwise he'd be worth the money. Stevie's made some bad moves, but hard for me to bag on this when every single GM would have done the same.

See above with my comps to Hull and Ovi (and Hossa, if I'm being honest). Stamkos could put up the numbers to justify his deal...and still not be worth it to the team that signed him.

I get that you're saying other GMs would have signed him and what not, but that doesn't make it the right move and I was for Stevie moving the guy then, as from our talks here. I'm not a Stamkos fan at all, though, and admit I'm probably a bit biased from it.

 

[Heaton]

Yeah, Stamkos lit the lamp a lot. So does Ovechkin. I don't think either pushes a team to a championship the way Yzerman/Feds did for us, or Sakic/Forsberg. Or even a Kane/Toews. I think they are more like Brett Hull or Marian Hossa, Great, great players...but they are guys you add if you can.

And people said the same things and worse about Yzerman until he was well into his 30's. Stamkos and the Lightning have gone further than Ovechkin ever has while Stamkos was a major reason why they got there.

I still don't see enough of a reason why signing Stamkos was a bad move. Drouin looks like he'll be a really good player, but they need defense.

 

[Winger98]

And people said the same things and worse about Yzerman until he was well into his 30's. Stamkos and the Lightning have gone further than Ovechkin ever has while Stamkos was a major reason why they got there.

I still don't see enough of a reason why signing Stamkos was a bad move. Drouin looks like he'll be a really good player, but they need defense.

A bigger reason for TB going on their run was Johnson, Kucherov, and Killorn. Hossa put up some serious points when he went to the finals with Pitt, and with Chicago, but he was never the driver of those buses.

And part of the reason Yzerman will have a hard time upgrading that D is because of the Stamkos contract. You keep focusing on Drouin, but the contract given to Stamkos has been the one that's caused the biggest ripples throughout their lineup.

 

[Heaton]

A bigger reason for TB going on their run was Johnson, Kucherov, and Killorn. Hossa put up some serious points when he went to the finals with Pitt, and with Chicago, but he was never the driver of those buses.

And part of the reason Yzerman will have a hard time upgrading that D is because of the Stamkos contract. You keep focusing on Drouin, but the contract given to Stamkos has been the one that's caused the biggest ripples throughout their lineup.

Disagree, changes were going to happen regardless. Tampa isn't far off, they had a bad year but they have an elite #1 defensemen, an elite winger in Kucherov and Stamkos will be back. They also have Stralman and now they picked up a young blue chip defenseman. Find a way to get rid of Callahan and a few other pieces and they'll be in the mix for winning the division.

I'm not going to bash Yzerman too much for their current situation considering what they actually have. I like to try to treat him like I would treat Holland, I think Holland has done terrible with the cap and hasn't done enough to keep the right pieces in place, I think Yzerman is doing a much better job. I don't feel like it would be fair to bash Yzerman and give Holland a pass at the same time.

 

[Wingsfan 4 life]

Meh, hockey wise I can understand the argument on why TB re-signing Stamkos hurt them. Business wise, though, I think moving on from Stamkos absolutely hurts the owners bottom line.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

You don't let a player like Stamkos walk. Any GM that did that would be fired immediately and rightfully so.

 

[Bench]

You don't let a player like Stamkos walk. Any GM that did that would be fired immediately and rightfully so.

It's a strange narrative where keeping Stamkos at age 27 is somehow being shined in a negative light. Before his injury this year he had 9 goals in 17 games, so it was looking pretty good for another 40 goal season. Oh the burden they carry having to pay him a fair salary.

Don't they know you could get both Abdelkader and Ericsson for that price? #value

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It's a strange narrative where keeping Stamkos at age 27 is somehow being shined in a negative light. Before his injury this year he had 9 goals in 17 games, so it was looking pretty good for another 40 goal season. Oh the burden they carry having to pay him a fair salary.

Don't they know you could get both Abdelkader and Ericsson for that price? #value

Okay but the Wings actually cleared payroll for just the hope of getting in the room. We have some bad contracts, but don't act like the Wings weren't willing to move stuff to take a shot at that particular player.

For the record I believe Yzerman has a Stanley Cup already in Tampa if he does the wise thing and picks Seth Jones over the player he just traded.

 

[Heaton]

Okay but the Wings actually cleared payroll for just the hope of getting in the room. We have some bad contracts, but don't act like the Wings weren't willing to move stuff to take a shot at that particular player.

For the record I believe Yzerman has a Stanley Cup already in Tampa if he does the wise thing and picks Seth Jones over the player he just traded.

They cleared a dead contract that Holland was going to clear regardless of Stamkos potentially being available or not.

 

[Bench]

Okay but the Wings actually cleared payroll for just the hope of getting in the room. We have some bad contracts, but don't act like the Wings weren't willing to move stuff to take a shot at that particular player.

OK. And I was all in favor of getting Stamkos on the Wings. I don't understand your point. I'm responding to the people who seem to think keeping Stamkos was a poor move for the team. It would have been a good move for the Wings as it was for Tampa.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

OK. And I was all in favor of getting Stamkos on the Wings. I don't understand your point. I'm responding to the people who seem to think keeping Stamkos was a poor move for the team. It would have been a good move for the Wings as it was for Tampa.

I don't understand the value comment. The Wings clearly were very interested in Stamkos. Stammer didn't feel the same.

Matt Carle, Ryan Callahan, Filppula, looks like Garrison and Coburn are about to be added to that list...

The Wings have worse ones, but hate to break it to some people and he still has a couple more kicks at it Yzerman has had a couple shots really to make a true Title team and he has handed out some bad contracts, drafted some bad choices... We will see, but again I just want an honest assessment of Yzerman around here since we thump Holland seemingly at every turn. I don't think it is happening. I don't disagree with what some are saying, but the difficult move would have been cutting bait from Stamkos, the against the grain non-conservative move that we constantly credit him with.... I am curious how Stamkos bounces back, he was slow to return to form his big injury before the latest injury.

 

[Winger98]

Disagree, changes were going to happen regardless. Tampa isn't far off, they had a bad year but they have an elite #1 defensemen, an elite winger in Kucherov and Stamkos will be back. They also have Stralman and now they picked up a young blue chip defenseman. Find a way to get rid of Callahan and a few other pieces and they'll be in the mix for winning the division.

I'm not going to bash Yzerman too much for their current situation considering what they actually have. I like to try to treat him like I would treat Holland, I think Holland has done terrible with the cap and hasn't done enough to keep the right pieces in place, I think Yzerman is doing a much better job. I don't feel like it would be fair to bash Yzerman and give Holland a pass at the same time.

Find a way to get get rid of Callahan, lose Paquette in the expansion draft, and their forward depth takes an even greater hit. Changes were clearly going to happen, it's the nature of guys like Stamkos, Kucherov, and Johnson hitting new deals. Because of Yzerman's choice to re-sign Stamkos while already having anchors like Callahan, Flip, Garrison, and Coburn on their roster, he's had to bleed depth and sacrifice the ability to upgrade the blueline.

With how Yzerman set-up TB's cap structure, with their other depth at forward, with their needs on the blueline, moving Stamkos rather than re-signing him would have set them up best for the future.

And I have no idea what Holland has to do with any of this.

It's a strange narrative where keeping Stamkos at age 27 is somehow being shined in a negative light. Before his injury this year he had 9 goals in 17 games, so it was looking pretty good for another 40 goal season. Oh the burden they carry having to pay him a fair salary.

Don't they know you could get both Abdelkader and Ericsson for that price? #value

Don't they know they could have kept Drouin, Flip, and re-signed Johnson for that price?

This has nothing to do with Stamkos' salary being fair. It has everything to do with Stamkos' deal not fitting on a team that already had commitments to Flip and Callahan up front with guys like Kucherov and Johnson coming up for new deals of their own. Maybe the cap will surge up higher than expected, I read something yesterday saying the NHLPA could push it as far as $77m, and maybe that will give TB the space they need to replenish depth lost and upgrade the blueline. Free agent shopping gets expensive, though.

 

[Heaton]

With how Yzerman set-up TB's cap structure, with their other depth at forward, with their needs on the blueline, moving Stamkos rather than re-signing him would have set them up best for the future

You don't get rid of your stars to keep your depth, that's how you lose your edge. Stamkos is a star, much like Hossa was a star while on the Wings. The Wings chose to get rid of Hossa in favor of depth, getting rid of Stamkos in favor of depth would have been the wrong move. I don't think they really need to upgrade their defense with another huge contract and honestly I don't see how their depth has taken such a hit.

And I have no idea what Holland has to do with any of this.

I think there can be more consistency when critiquing GMs is all.

 

[Heaton]

I just want an honest assessment of Yzerman around here since we thump Holland seemingly at every turn. I don't think it is happening.

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you. The 'thumping' of Holland when we had elite pieces was drowned out by support. I was one of the biggest Holland supporters for years and the evidence is my tens of thousands of posts.

I think whether it's sports, politics, entertainment or whatever we all have the tendency to overcompensate one way or the other. Since Holland gets bashed on this board, and Yzerman's name gets brought up as a possible replacement at some point, it's only natural for the people who tend to defend Holland more to bash Yzerman more to try and even it out.

I think an honest assessment is exactly what you've laid out and I've agreed as much. He's probably done a bit more better than worse, some bad drafts, some bad contracts (like every GM in the league), but he also has some elite pieces (Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov). So it's easier to believe they'll turn it around and be a top team again.

I wouldn't be saying the same if they traded Stamkos and kept Drouin.

 

[Winger98]

You don't get rid of your stars to keep your depth, that's how you lose your edge. Stamkos is a star, much like Hossa was a star while on the Wings. The Wings chose to get rid of Hossa in favor of depth, getting rid of Stamkos in favor of depth would have been the wrong move. I don't think they really need to upgrade their defense with another huge contract and honestly I don't see how their depth has taken such a hit.

I think there can be more consistency when critiquing GMs is all.

We let Hossa go and lost our depth when Samuelsson bolted for Vancouver and Hudler went to Russia. We also won our Cup with that depth, and not with Hossa. Same with Pitt, oddly enough.

And we've had multiple threads about Holland. No one thinks he's done a good job.

 

[Heaton]

We let Hossa go and lost our depth when Samuelsson bolted for Vancouver and Hudler went to Russia. We also won our Cup with that depth, and not with Hossa. Same with Pitt, oddly enough.

That was later and wasn't the decision at the time, but we're not going through that again.

And we've had multiple threads about Holland. No one thinks he's done a good job.

Eh, most people don't, some do.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

The Wings should have traded Cleary to make room for the Hoss.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Yeah, I'm going to disagree with you. The 'thumping' of Holland when we had elite pieces was drowned out by support. I was one of the biggest Holland supporters for years and the evidence is my tens of thousands of posts.

I think whether it's sports, politics, entertainment or whatever we all have the tendency to overcompensate one way or the other. Since Holland gets bashed on this board, and Yzerman's name gets brought up as a possible replacement at some point, it's only natural for the people who tend to defend Holland more to bash Yzerman more to try and even it out.

I think an honest assessment is exactly what you've laid out and I've agreed as much. He's probably done a bit more better than worse, some bad drafts, some bad contracts (like every GM in the league), but he also has some elite pieces (Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov). So it's easier to believe they'll turn it around and be a top team again.

I wouldn't be saying the same if they traded Stamkos and kept Drouin.

So great two of his three building blocks are players that were there before him and fairly obvious extension player.

We will see where it goes, but he wasn't the director of scouting or anything when those players were taken. Hedman and Stamkos are the same building blocks that were in place when he took the job.

If they want Stevie back I hope the Wings go for it. But I am far from certain the guy has the midas touch and I don't think the world is drastically different if Holland had moved upstairs when asked for Yzerman. Given the frequency he misses the playoffs with higher profile talents it might be worse in all honesty.

 

[Heaton]

For the record, I don't want Yzerman to come back and be GM and I don't think he'd want to come back either.

 

[chances14]

haha what a joke. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-marian-hossa-might-played-final-nhl-game/

more like hossa is allergic to playing hockey for $1m a year for the next 4 years

 

[WingedWheel1987]

haha what a joke. http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-marian-hossa-might-played-final-nhl-game/

more like hossa is allergic to playing hockey for $1m a year for the next 4 years

That's hilarious.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Im sure the hawks aren't doing something shady

 

[SoupNazi]

Yeah. That sounds legit all right.

Guess the Hawks haven't won enough lately for Bettman's liking.

 

[Ingvar]

I guess it's the time of the year to rant about jersey colour variety.

Atlantic division is awful - 4 variants of red jerseys, 3 variants of blue jerseys and boring black. I understand that you can't change O6 teams, but do Florida and Ottawa really need red as a base colour? Why does Tampa use nearly the same shade of blue as Toronto?

Metropolitan isn't much better and there is 3 more reds and 3 more blues.

Meanwhile Central has a perfect spectre of colours and Pacific confidently places second. Total Western dominance.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Yeah. That sounds legit all right.

Guess the Hawks haven't won enough lately for Bettman's liking.

Well now that the pens have back to back he looks like a fool for calling them a dynasty