Around the NHL, 2016-2017 Part II

[njx9]

I'm surprised that people think Drouin was worth much more than a top tier D prospect. I love his potential, but he's still basically a 60 point winger. Unless he transitions to C, starts to play a far more even game, or elevates his play by 20 points, I really don't see how the Lightning didn't come out ahead. I guess I can see it if you think Sergachev is a mediocre prospect, but I don't see a lot of support for that opinion.

 

[Frk It]

To me it would be another young established player of similar value. I don't know, Trouba maybe? Or at least a D prospect that's further along and closer to stepping in as an impact player, such as Chabot. This just feels like it carries too much risk for Tampa.

Yeah, this is definitely quite a bit of risk. 0 AHL and 4 NHL games played for Sergachev. I like him a lot as a prospect, but no clue if he is ready to make an impact yet.

 

[Winger98]

To me it would be another young established player of similar value. I don't know, Trouba maybe? Or at least a D prospect that's further along and closer to stepping in as an impact player, such as Chabot. This just feels like it carries too much risk for Tampa.

Taylor Hall had a much better track record when he was dealt and was/is regarded as a top5 wing in the game and all he brought back was Adam Larsson - a guy who was 4th in IT on Edmonton's blueline this year.

If you're looking at Trouba, I think you're looking at dealing a guy like Johansen (sp?) as Columbus did to get Jones.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Taylor Hall had a much better track record when he was dealt and was/is regarded as a top5 wing in the game and all he brought back was Adam Larsson - a guy who was 4th in IT on Edmonton's blueline this year.

If you're looking at Trouba, I think you're looking at dealing a guy like Johansen (sp?) as Columbus did to get Jones.

You're always overpaying a bit when trading for D, but Larsson was at least an established young D-man on a great contract. A #4 at worst, with #1-2 potential. It made a lot more sense to me than Tampa's trade here.

 

[Reddwit]

This move wasn't made in a vacuum. Tampa was going to lose a good forward if they didn't move someone. And the ideal target was probably a cheap, skilled defenseman. They're probably conceiving of this deal as Sergachev + Killorn for Drouin.

 

[Heaton]

This move wasn't made in a vacuum. Tampa was going to lose a good forward if they didn't move someone. And the ideal target was probably a cheap, skilled defenseman. They're probably conceiving of this deal as Sergachev + Killorn for Drouin.

Agreed, considering the landscape, getting that much value is awesome for Drouin. I was equally impressed when he got so much for MSL after MSL announced he would only get traded to one team.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I don't know about that. Wasn't he kinda boxed in with both the salary cap and expansion draft? This really doesn't scream top value to me. All depends on Sergachev. On paper he didn't have the most amazing year so it's hard to say he's actually going to be NHL ready next year or ready to make an actual impact in the next few years. For a team supposed to be right in the middle of a cup window it's disastrous if Sergachev can't help them pretty soon.

No, as I mentioned the value is not immediately apparent. Yzerman reduced his overall cap number and helped relieve any potential attrition from the Las Vegas expansion draft. Those are both wins, albeit not wins that are going to have any clear short term value. Drouin is the better player right now and that's not debatable. At least Yzerman got a good, young cheap asset that could turn into a really good player. Yzerman has had lots of luck with Russian players, not sure if they have someone on their scouting team who is very knowledgeable on Russian prospects.

The biggest thing is Yzerman understands how to operate within a cap environment and how you have to get younger and cheaper...and better obviously. If Sergachev turns into a really good d-man he will have gotten really good value in return for Drouin. He couldn't get someone of equivalent value today due to their cap situation. It will be worth seeing how this plays out in terms of how Sergachev develops. This is why I like the trade.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The biggest thing is Yzerman understands how to operate within a cap environment and how you have to get younger and cheaper...and better obviously.

From my point of view this kind of scenario is exactly what GMs who are good with the salary cap manage to avoid. Drouin is 22, so it's not like "getting younger" is some kind of positive here, and having to get cheaper is Yzerman's own fault. Every year that team isn't a contender right now is a waste of prime Hedman/Stamkos years.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

From my point of view this kind of scenario is exactly what GMs who are good with the salary cap manage to avoid. Drouin is 22, so it's not like "getting younger" is some kind of positive here, and having to get cheaper is Yzerman's own fault. Every year that team isn't a contender right now is a waste of prime Hedman/Stamkos years.

You think moving Drouin takes them out of contender status?

And, like has been said before, they were going to have to lose somebody. They got value and potentially a great defenseman out of it.

 

[Run the Jewels]

From my point of view this kind of scenario is exactly what GMs who are good with the salary cap manage to avoid. Drouin is 22, so it's not like "getting younger" is some kind of positive here, and having to get cheaper is Yzerman's own fault. Every year that team isn't a contender right now is a waste of prime Hedman/Stamkos years.

Yes, it is terrible cap management having so many good young players who are going to be paid market rate. Much better to overpay your own past-their-prime guys and be in cap hell while being one of the least talented teams in the league!

 

[Pavels Dog]

Yes, it is terrible cap management having so many good young players who are going to be paid market rate. Much better to overpay your own past-their-prime guys and be in cap hell while being one of the least talented teams in the league!

Missing the playoffs and being forced to trade a 22 year old budding superstar while being right in the middle of a supposed cup window might be "better" than our current situation but at least Holland didn't put us in that kind of situation when Dats/Z/Lids were in their prime. Maybe it's because we had less talent but at least we won a cup so I'll take it.

 

[Wood Stick]

Tampa Bay has lost Filppula, Boyle, Bishop and Drouin all in like four months. I'd guess they lose Paquette in the draft.

 

[Bench]

Tampa Bay has lost Filppula, Boyle, Bishop and Drouin all in like four months. I'd guess they lose Paquette in the draft.

Half of those (Flip and Bishop) they wanted to replace to make room for younger and potentially better players. Which is something you want to be doing pretty regularly. With a player like Drouin, they freed up a protection slot and acquired another blue chip defensive prospect.

If anyone can spin this type of scenario negatively, that's fine, but if you were to apply equal scrutiny to the Red Wings you'd have a manifesto of errors to report. The issues come when those quickest to deconstruct Tampa are the stalwarts for the Wings. It feels... a little uneven.

 

[Winger98]

You're always overpaying a bit when trading for D, but Larsson was at least an established young D-man on a great contract. A #4 at worst, with #1-2 potential. It made a lot more sense to me than Tampa's trade here.

Hall was also far more established. I just don't see how these two trades are all that different. Personally, I'm not a fan of the value either of these trades put on the D, but it does just seem to be the price to pay. Add that Tampa had to move someone because of the draft, they'd had issues with Drouin in the past, and they needed help on the blueline...the trade works in a lot of ways for me.

If we're going to bag on Yzerman, I think it's far easier to pick on his re-signing Callahan and Stamkos.

 

[Heaton]

I'd rather have Stamkos than drouin.

 

[Winger98]

I'd rather have Stamkos than drouin.

If Stamkos can stay at center and stay healthy, two things I haven't been sold on. And the added cap flexibility would be nice to fix problems as they come up (like their blueline). Though, if you just remove Callahan from the mess and they could have both.

 

[Frk It]

Hall was also far more established. I just don't see how these two trades are all that different. Personally, I'm not a fan of the value either of these trades put on the D, but it does just seem to be the price to pay. Add that Tampa had to move someone because of the draft, they'd had issues with Drouin in the past, and they needed help on the blueline...the trade works in a lot of ways for me.

If we're going to bag on Yzerman, I think it's far easier to pick on his re-signing Callahan and Stamkos.

Any and every GM would have re-signed Stamkos.

 

[Reddwit]

Does anyone else follow the Trade Forum? Holy hell is Tanev being overrated. I can't remember the last time a predominantly defensive defenseman was so highly valued. Or over-valued. Yes, he's an advanced stats god and is beyond solid in his own right, but Jesus Christ, the dude doesn't produce. I don't give a **** how good you are defensively, if you can't produce at a decent pace, you are lacking in an important facet of the game. Plain and simple, if you are valued as a top pairing D, you better be able to play like a #1D in a pinch. This guy can't.

For the record, I really like Tanev but damn if he isn't the poster child for advanced states marring objectivity, I don't know what is. Tanev fans are scoffing at the likes of Galchebyuk, Duchene and Drouin for the guy. It's mind-boggling.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Yeah he's super overrated guy has never passed 20 points but some Vancouver fans would ask Larkin Mantha and aa for him cause he's that good

 

[Pavels Dog]

If anyone can spin this type of scenario negatively, that's fine, but if you were to apply equal scrutiny to the Red Wings you'd have a manifesto of errors to report. The issues come when those quickest to deconstruct Tampa are the stalwarts for the Wings. It feels... a little uneven.

I don't see any truly comparable situations in the Wings cap history. Just because we suck currently doesn't mean nothing other teams do can be questioned as if we've done exactly the same mistakes. Anyways obviously it's going to take time to see the result of this trade, I just think it looks bad for Tampa in the short term and for a supposed contender, the short term is pretty important.

Does anyone else follow the Trade Forum? Holy hell is Tanev being overrated. I can't remember the last time a predominantly defensive defenseman was so highly valued. Or over-valued. Yes, he's an advanced stats god and is beyond solid in his own right, but Jesus Christ, the dude doesn't produce. I don't give a **** how good you are defensively, if you can't produce at a decent pace, you are lacking in an important facet of the game. Plain and simple, if you are valued as a top pairing D, you better be able to play like a #1D in a pinch. This guy can't.

For the record, I really like Tanev but damn if he isn't the poster child for advanced states marring objectivity, I don't know what is. Tanev fans are scoffing at the likes of Galchebyuk, Duchene and Drouin for the guy. It's mind-boggling.

No D group in the league is more overrated by that team's fans than Vancouver's.

 

[obey86]

I'd rather have Stamkos than drouin.

In a vacuum, sure.

But personally, i'd rather have a healthy, 22 year old Drouin for 5.5 million over an often injured, 27 year old Stamkos for 8.5 million.

 

[obey86]

You think moving Drouin takes them out of contender status?

And, like has been said before, they were going to have to lose somebody. They got value and potentially a great defenseman out of it.

It certainly makes it harder to win, at least next year....he was their 3rd leading scorer.

Possibly down the road TB is better, but that's an unknown at this point and is dependent on how the dman turns out.

 

[Winger98]

Any and every GM would have re-signed Stamkos.

Probably, or at least tried to, but it doesn't make it the right move. I don't see Stamkos as the guy who makes that team go, and he's missed significant time to injuries the past few years. If TB wasn't lugging around Flip and Callahan (though they've since moved Flip), I'd view it differently, but I think Stamkos is going to end up being like that beautiful, exotic car we want. It looks nice, when it works it works well, but it's not necessary and it often breaks down, becoming an expensive problem more than an integral positive.

 

[Heaton]

Probably, or at least tried to, but it doesn't make it the right move. I don't see Stamkos as the guy who makes that team go, and he's missed significant time to injuries the past few years. If TB wasn't lugging around Flip and Callahan (though they've since moved Flip), I'd view it differently, but I think Stamkos is going to end up being like that beautiful, exotic car we want. It looks nice, when it works it works well, but it's not necessary and it often breaks down, becoming an expensive problem more than an integral positive.

When's the last time a Stamkos made it to free agency or was traded? Every team in the league is signing a 27 year old former 60 goal scorer. Letting Stamkos 'go' and signing a kid who (perhaps rightfully) went against the organization's orders isn't something that happens.

I definitely agree with the Filppula and Callahan stuff, both are weak and needless players, but you keep Stamkos given the opportunity. Plenty of players have had major injuries and still had great careers. No reason to get too spooked about it. Though I do remember people saying we should get rid of Z during his back issues.

 

[Frk It]

Probably, or at least tried to, but it doesn't make it the right move. I don't see Stamkos as the guy who makes that team go, and he's missed significant time to injuries the past few years. If TB wasn't lugging around Flip and Callahan (though they've since moved Flip), I'd view it differently, but I think Stamkos is going to end up being like that beautiful, exotic car we want. It looks nice, when it works it works well, but it's not necessary and it often breaks down, becoming an expensive problem more than an integral positive.

He was playing amazing to start the year and had 20 points in 17 games. They won 11 of those 17.

His only issue is he can't stay healthy, otherwise he'd be worth the money. Stevie's made some bad moves, but hard for me to bag on this when every single GM would have done the same.