Andreas Athanasiou

[Shaman464]

I think you're wrong here. In the end, it probably doesn't change the Wings' max offer, but I think it definitely affected what Holland led off with, and maybe refused to significantly move from until the rumored KHL offer.

Holland came in with that initial offer of $1.25m because it fit the best with where our cap was after Daley was signed. And that low ball offer is, imo, why Athanasiou was left unsigned long enough for the KHL to begin stepping in and throwing their money around.

Now the Daley offer doesn't matter. But where Daley's deal impacted the Athanasiou negotiations was at the beginning. If you really want to absolve the Daley deal of any responsibility, then I guess it would rest with Holland who seems to have badly misjudged where Athanasiou stood.

I think he came in with that offer because AA wanted a one year deal. A one year deal makes NO sense for KH/RWs because it brings AA closer to arbitration rights, and leaves him more years of arbitration status as an RFA. It makes much more sense for them to want to lock him up for 2-3 years. But if AA's first response was he wanted a one year deal then this offer makes sense, because Detroit would have no incentive to pay him much for what they are giving up.

 

[Winger98]

I think he came in with that offer because AA wanted a one year deal. A one year deal makes NO sense for KH/RWs because it brings AA closer to arbitration rights, and leaves him more years of arbitration status as an RFA. It makes much more sense for them to want to lock him up for 2-3 years. But if AA's first response was he wanted a one year deal then this offer makes sense, because Detroit would have no incentive to pay him much for what they are giving up.

Offering up an earlier shot at arbitration is the only carrot Holland had in hoping to get Athanasiou to agree to that number. That's where a one year deal makes sense. Holland thought it would be enticing enough to get Athanasiou to sign, and then punt his cap/salary problems off down the road another year.

I don't disagree that Holland would rather lock the kid up for several years, but he had to know he wouldn't have liked the cap hit that went with it.

 

[Henkka]

The biggest point is... If AA would sign the 1.9M contract, the Wings would make the requisite salary cap move (or just kinda wait and cross their fingers that a guy gets an insignificant injury so they can IR him but not actually lose any depth).

If they NEED the cap room, they can make it. AA is unsigned because he wants more than the Wings are interested in paying him, not because they can't pay him.

Trevor Daley's signing has no bearing on AA's contract. The fact that signing him for over what his contract comparables are is not something they're interested in doing is the deciding factor.

Just the same way that if Mantha or Larkin blows up next year and goes 60+ points... they'll make cap space room to give them a contract.

Holland and the Wings FO value him at a certain level. He's not worth more than that to them. If he wants to play in Detroit, he'll do it for that contract. If he doesn't, he can go to the KHL. They could have 10M free, I don't think they want to go over comparables for him.

Agree with this. You seem to always be the poster who has most realistic opinion of things.

They were not gonna overpay for Athanasiou in any case (just in a case for overpaying) and Holland has informed us that if AA accepts fair RFA comparables number, they are forced to make other moves. They have prepared for Plan A, B, C, D and E, like every normal management.

Daley was a non-factor.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Offering up an earlier shot at arbitration is the only carrot Holland had in hoping to get Athanasiou to agree to that number. That's where a one year deal makes sense. Holland thought it would be enticing enough to get Athanasiou to sign, and then punt his cap/salary problems off down the road another year.

I don't disagree that Holland would rather lock the kid up for several years, but he had to know he wouldn't have liked the cap hit that went with it.

And checking in with the KHL is the only stick that AA's agent has to try to get Holland to agree to his number.

It's just a more active and publicized negotiation than most have been around here recently.

And Sam Bennett just got two years, 1.95M Holland is right to hold steady at 2 years, 1.9M for AA. Mayyybe extend it out to 2/2M, but so many guys are right in that ballpark.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

And checking in with the KHL is the only stick that AA's agent has to try to get Holland to agree to his number.

It's just a more active and publicized negotiation than most have been around here recently.

And Sam Bennett just got two years, 1.95M Holland is right to hold steady at 2 years, 1.9M for AA. Mayyybe extend it out to 2/2M, but so many guys are right in that ballpark.

When I saw what Bennett signed for, I thought it took the wind out of AA's argument for more money.

Its looking like he wants to be traded.

 

[Grimm]

When I saw what Bennett signed for, I thought it took the wind out of AA's argument for more money.

Its looking like he wants to be traded.

My gut tells me he doesn't like Blabhill. Seriously.

 

[Oddbob]

While I like AA, I consider Bennett to be the better player, and by a decent enough margin. To me, AA is sounding more and more like Nazem Kadri of the Leafs. When Nazem was just coming out of junior he was known and still is, for having a gigantic opinion of his abilities, and hadn't proven anything to that point. AA seems very similar and should take the standard deal that people of his performance and age/status get.

Don't get me wrong, I am never on the greedy owners/managers side either, it is just that these players are ALL well overpaid as is, and he really has shown to be one dimensional at this point. Ice time being low or not, it isn't like 18 goals is massively great, or anything, it is good and that is all. Along with that, he is known for being a bit lazy, not very good defensively and doesn't really provide good for-checking or some other intangible skill. One dimensional scorers always get paid less, and he is already expecting what Tatar got on his second deal, and Tatar had produced far more points, than AA has.

If he goes to the KHL, I hope the Wings trade him, as he is exactly the kind of player I don't want on our team. He can make a tiny bit less for a couple years here, in a miles better league, prove himself and get big money on his next contract. Or he can go to the inferior KHL, for a little more now, lessen his NHL stock, and still be an RFA when/if he comes back. All the while showing, he is just in it for the money and couldn't care less about being or proving that he is one of the better players in the top league.

 

[KJoe88]

While I like AA, I consider Bennett to be the better player, and by a decent enough margin. To me, AA is sounding more and more like Nazem Kadri of the Leafs. When Nazem was just coming out of junior he was known and still is, for having a gigantic opinion of his abilities, and hadn't proven anything to that point. AA seems very similar and should take the standard deal that people of his performance and age/status get.

Don't get me wrong, I am never on the greedy owners/managers side either, it is just that these players are ALL well overpaid as is, and he really has shown to be one dimensional at this point. Ice time being low or not, it isn't like 18 goals is massively great, or anything, it is good and that is all. Along with that, he is known for being a bit lazy, not very good defensively and doesn't really provide good for-checking or some other intangible skill. One dimensional scorers always get paid less, and he is already expecting what Tatar got on his second deal, and Tatar had produced far more points, than AA has.

If he goes to the KHL, I hope the Wings trade him, as he is exactly the kind of player I don't want on our team. He can make a tiny bit less for a couple years here, in a miles better league, prove himself and get big money on his next contract. Or he can go to the inferior KHL, for a little more now, lessen his NHL stock, and still be an RFA when/if he comes back. All the while showing, he is just in it for the money and couldn't care less about being or proving that he is one of the better players in the top league.

I agree with this post entirely.

For example: Feds is my favorite player ever. He demanded a lot of money - even had a stalemate. The difference is AA is demanding more money than he's worth. He thinks because he can dangle occasionally and score he can act like this. I've come to disagree with a lot of Holland's moves after being a supporter of his for long time, but what he's doing with AA isn't irrational.

Quite frankly AA can leave and never come back. The Wings locker room has always been known as classsy - I don't think AA'a attitude is good for the Wings' culture.

Bye.

 

[Shaman464]

This is a really professional analysis. When you take the vitriol out you sound like you could be the next GM!

Missed this post! Haha, yeah, I am not a great hockey mind, but I hope that sometimes I can be a broken clock.

 

[Winger98]

And checking in with the KHL is the only stick that AA's agent has to try to get Holland to agree to his number.

It's just a more active and publicized negotiation than most have been around here recently.

And Sam Bennett just got two years, 1.95M Holland is right to hold steady at 2 years, 1.9M for AA. Mayyybe extend it out to 2/2M, but so many guys are right in that ballpark.

It is, and I think AA's camp has to know that getting the offer up to $1.9m is the best they should reasonably hope for. At this point, he's either not happy with the Wings and doesn't want to sign or the KHL money is that good.

Or the worst option and that's Kenny getting the kid to hold on a decision to buy time to deal someone and up his own offer. I'd rather see AA go to Russia for a year or two than offer him a bad contract while giving away another asset.

 

[Dotter]

So he is demanding more than Sam Bennett?

Good luck with that.

 

[Winger98]

So he is demanding more than Sam Bennett?

Good luck with that.

No one knows what he's asking for now. We "know" that the Wings rumored offer is 2 years, $1.9m per season, and the KHL offer is at least 1 year and $3m. It seems either Athanasiou can't decide if the extra money is worth going to Russia for, or something is going on that's made him pause in making a decision.

 

[TatarTangle]

How have we been building up the middle, and how does a signing like Daley improve us long-term on that account?

You don't start a rebuild with Trevor Daley.

No, you don't. But I didn't mention anything about a rebuild. Anyone not named Zetterberg could be traded for a full rebuild for all I care.

Daley can move the puck out of the zone. The only other person that can make a stretch pass is Green. Assuming Holland is sticking to his false premise that they can still be competitve and make the playoffs -which I assume he is- Daley isn't all that horrendous of a signing as people would lead you to believe.

 

[Pavels Dog]

(Assuming this is about AA)

Come on. He's been in that grouping you've said could be the next core for a year now. Then we don't sign him, and now he's just a "depth forward"... really???

What do you mean "don't sign him"? We haven't signed him.. yet. We will.
But what he is (a depth forward) is different from what he could become (part of our future core). Never have I said he's already part of our core or anything that would warrant the extreme reaction the Wings fanbase has had to AA not being signed in August.

 

[Dotter]

No one knows what he's asking for now. We "know" that the Wings rumored offer is 2 years, $1.9m per season, and the KHL offer is at least 1 year and $3m. It seems either Athanasiou can't decide if the extra money is worth going to Russia for, or something is going on that's made him pause in making a decision.

So it is rumored he rejected Sam Bennett money and it seems like he wants the $3 million... but isn't sure he wants to go to Russia?

If these rumors are correct, the kid sounds like a tool.

 

[Frk It]

What do you mean "don't sign him"? We haven't signed him.. yet. We will.
But what he is (a depth forward) is different from what he could become (part of our future core). Never have I said he's already part of our core or anything that would warrant the extreme reaction the Wings fanbase has had to AA not being signed in August.

We may sign him to a 1 year deal that takes him to UFA after he returns from Russia, yes. In which case he won't be here to make any future impact.

Not sure we are at fault for that, we put a fair offer on the table and he chose not to sign it. But my opinion of him as a player has not changed through that at all.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

His agent must be feeding him a whole lot of nonsense if AA thinks going to the KHL is a good idea. If AA thinks he is really that good, staying in the NHL gives him the best possible earning potential.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think you're wrong here. In the end, it probably doesn't change the Wings' max offer, but I think it definitely affected what Holland led off with, and maybe refused to significantly move from until the rumored KHL offer.

Holland came in with that initial offer of $1.25m because it fit the best with where our cap was after Daley was signed. And that low ball offer is, imo, why Athanasiou was left unsigned long enough for the KHL to begin stepping in and throwing their money around.

Now the Daley offer doesn't matter. But where Daley's deal impacted the Athanasiou negotiations was at the beginning. If you really want to absolve the Daley deal of any responsibility, then I guess it would rest with Holland who seems to have badly misjudged where Athanasiou stood.

It may have impacted timing, but I for one never expected AA to sign for the Wings initial offer just as I did not expect the Wings to bite on AA's initial counter. Even if AA does not have much leverage, it is still a negotiation.

There is a season for signing UFAs and that season is right after free agency opens. Daley may not move the needle for this organization, but if you wanted a player of his caliber, you needed to sign him in July. You did not have the same time constraints (or market competition) with signing AA.

You are free to call me crazy, but I watched Kronner last year and there isn't a cell in my body that does not expect him to hit LTIR in short order and stay there until the end of his contract. I also do not see the Wings bringing back Green as a UFA after this season. Most UFAs towards the end of their careers do not want to play for bottom dwellers without being overcompensated in some meaningful way. I think everyone knows that the Wings are in no position to overpay any UFA at this point. Long story short: even as a proponent of a full rebuild, I have no issues with the Daley signing and don't think it put any gasoline on the AA contract fire. Holland has offered him a reasonable deal at this point. He can either sign it or buy a ticket to Kazan.

 

[Winger98]

It may have impacted timing, but I for one never expected AA to sign for the Wings initial offer just as I did not expect the Wings to bite on AA's initial counter. Even if AA does not have much leverage, it is still a negotiation.

There is a season for signing UFAs and that season is right after free agency opens. Daley may not move the needle for this organization, but if you wanted a player of his caliber, you needed to sign him in July. You did not have the same time constraints (or market competition) with signing AA.

You are free to call me crazy, but I watched Kronner last year and there isn't a cell in my body that does not expect him to hit LTIR in short order and stay there until the end of his contract. I also do not see the Wings bringing back Green as a UFA after this season. Most UFAs towards the end of their careers do not want to play for bottom dwellers without being overcompensated in some meaningful way. I think everyone knows that the Wings are in no position to overpay any UFA at this point. Long story short: even as a proponent of a full rebuild, I have no issues with the Daley signing and don't think it put any gasoline on the AA contract fire. Holland has offered him a reasonable deal at this point. He can either sign it or buy a ticket to Kazan.

Crazy!

Fair enough, though. I don't really agree with any of it (other than Kronwall being destined for LTIR at some point) but fair enough.

My only hope now is that Holland at least holds strong on his $1.9m offer. If Holland now caves on that, he may as well just be fired.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Crazy!

Fair enough, though. I don't really agree with any of it (other than Kronwall being destined for LTIR at some point) but fair enough.

My only hope now is that Holland at least holds strong on his $1.9m offer. If Holland now caves on that, he may as well just be fired.

So who would you expect us to ice on defense in 18/19 under proper offseason execution from Holland (presuming a full rebuild is on)?

 

[ricky0034]

We may sign him to a 1 year deal that takes him to UFA after he returns from Russia, yes. In which case he won't be here to make any future impact.

Not sure we are at fault for that, we put a fair offer on the table and he chose not to sign it. But my opinion of him as a player has not changed through that at all.

there may be a fair offer on the table now but it matters how and when you get there too

I mean Khan was talking a couple weeks ago about the Wings offer being at 1.5 and that was the end of August already

there's a big difference between arriving at a fair offer organically in the middle of the offseason and finally putting one on the table at the very last minute and with the KHL already involved

 

[jkutswings]

His agent must be feeding him a whole lot of nonsense if AA thinks going to the KHL is a good idea. If AA thinks he is really that good, staying in the NHL gives him the best possible earning potential.

Not on this team, it doesn't. I'd sooner be a hired gun in the KHL, hoping to eventually find a decent team - or eventually have Detroit trade my rights - than stick around this graveyard.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Not on this team, it doesn't. I'd sooner be a hired gun in the KHL, hoping to eventually find a decent team - or eventually have Detroit trade my rights - than stick around this graveyard.

That's really dumb.

You show you're willing to work in Detroit, you get lifetime security pretty much. God, Cleary earned like 3-4M when he couldn't even skate because he worked really hard.

Abby and Helm got 4.25 and 3.85M respectively because Abby works hard in front of the net and Helm busts his ass on the PK. Drew Miller got several years of 800k-1M salaries as a completely replaceable 4th liner because he would grind.

Luke Glendening got 1.8M for 4 years while putting up some of the worst advanced stats you'll ever see because he found a role on the PK again from busting his ass.

The Wings have never been shy about paying their players when they deserve it. When they show that they're a consistent day-in, day-out professional.

Unless AA suddenly has the ability to rip off 30-40g seasons somewhere... he'll do as well or better earnings wise in Detroit than he would anywhere else.

 

[Frk It]

there may be a fair offer on the table now but it matters how and when you get there too

I mean Khan was talking a couple weeks ago about the Wings offer being at 1.5 and that was the end of August already

there's a big difference between arriving at a fair offer organically in the middle of the offseason and finally putting one on the table at the very last minute and with the KHL already involved

Not sure that the Wings not leading with their best offer justifies chasing or entertaining (not sure how that progressed) an offer from the KHL either, though.

 

[StargateSG1]

https://www.fanragsports.com/red-wings/friedman-eyes-possible-trade-options-red-wings/

That'd be refreshing to see for a change