Andreas Athanasiou

[Mijatovic]

Because lining up with Glendening and Co is a surefire way to get goals...

 

[Shaman464]

Think about this from Athanasiou's perspective.

You're a young, cocky forward, who loves to be flashy on offense, and would just as soon let defensive responsibilities go by the wayside. You've butted heads with the coaching staff on multiple occasions, and now the front office is making you an offer that you think is a tad low.

I see three scenarios that would be attractive to me:

1) I play for a championship caliber team. Maybe they let me be the niche scorer that I am, or maybe they ask me to play more defense than I'd prefer, but either way, we win a ton of games, and have a shot at a Stanley Cup.

Verdict: Detroit isn't even MAKING the playoffs, let alone doing any damage in them. This one's out the window.


2) I play for a team that, win or lose, lets me focus on what's most fun for me: being a human highlight reel, and not caring much about backchecking or other two-way play.

Verdict: The Wings have a coaching staff that would prefer to skate 4 lines of Luke Glendening out there. Strike two.


3) I might not like the team, or the style, or the win/loss record, but I get paid boatloads of money to play in the NHL. Make it rain, baby!

Verdict: I'm not saying the kid deserves more money, but it's pretty clear that Detroit isn't spending a dime more than they have to, and that they have AA locked in at a $2M cap on value.



So if the team is going to continue to stink, and going to continue to ask me to play defense, and going to continue to pay me less money than I can get elsewhere...

...what about Detroit is better than goofing around in the KHL for a few years? If I'm AA, even if they never trade my rights, there's no incentive to stick around and suffer through changing my game, just to keep losing either way.



The Wings are going to keep losing players that they place in the 'selective discipline' category, because, other than a new arena, they no longer have anything that's a draw to play here.

He's an RFA. He doesn't get to make demands. And the antics hes playing will hurt him in the future too. This is becoming a track record of him deciding he is better than everyone else and deserves to makes demands. Add to that bolting to Russia hurts his arbitration case. Instead of having 3 1/2 years of continuous NHL play to make his case, he likely comes back to a one year contract and a team that has no incentive to allow him to increase his stock.

As for the KHL? Well, the fact that Russia, outside of St Peterberg and Moscow is ****, there is a lot of crime, quality of life isn't nearly as good, and the league is closer to the AHL than the NHL, nothing!

 

[Pavels Dog]

If I were on a team where Helm and Abdelkader are making ridiculous money, I'd be asking for more than I'm probably realistically worth also.

So you go into negotiations as an RFA without arbitration rights and ask for a big AAV salary on a 1-2 year deal because of two guys that got paid on long-term UFA contracts, the GM laughs until tears stream down his face, then he offers fair value. What you gonna do? Go to Russia?

 

[Shaman464]

So you go into negotiations as an RFA without arbitration rights and ask for a big AAV salary on a 1-2 year deal because of two guys that got paid on long-term UFA contracts, the GM laughs until tears stream down his face, then he offers fair value. What you gonna do? Go to Russia?

You know me, I detest Holland and think in the last 5 years his timidness has hurt the team. But the way some people want to blame Holland for not caving to AA is amazing. They are the same people who would have flipped out if July 1 AA got 3 million because he was an RFA without arbitration rights.

To everyone else: the market shows players in the same category as AA are getting 1.8-2.1 million a season for 2-3 seasons. 1.9 for 2 seasons is exactly what he is worth. The way the CBA is constructed players like him have no leverage. It was designed this way to give teams more control over players. The first step to righting this team isn't to blow that, instead it is to use players with those contracts to lower costs.

 

[Winger98]

He's an RFA. He doesn't get to make demands. And the antics hes playing will hurt him in the future too. This is becoming a track record of him deciding he is better than everyone else and deserves to makes demands. Add to that bolting to Russia hurts his arbitration case. Instead of having 3 1/2 years of continuous NHL play to make his case, he likely comes back to a one year contract and a team that has no incentive to allow him to increase his stock.

As for the KHL? Well, the fact that Russia, outside of St Peterberg and Moscow is ****, there is a lot of crime, quality of life isn't nearly as good, and the league is closer to the AHL than the NHL, nothing!

other than wanting to win. If Athanasiou getting more minutes helps the team win, not using him accordingly just to hurt his contract negotiations is something that would be glaringly wrong with this organization.

Though, depending on how they continue to use guys like Gator, Helm, Ericsson, etc., could be argued it's already happening.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

He's an RFA. He doesn't get to make demands. And the antics hes playing will hurt him in the future too. This is becoming a track record of him deciding he is better than everyone else and deserves to makes demands. Add to that bolting to Russia hurts his arbitration case. Instead of having 3 1/2 years of continuous NHL play to make his case, he likely comes back to a one year contract and a team that has no incentive to allow him to increase his stock.

As for the KHL? Well, the fact that Russia, outside of St Peterberg and Moscow is ****, there is a lot of crime, quality of life isn't nearly as good, and the league is closer to the AHL than the NHL, nothing!

Didn't hudler balk at kenny's RFA offers and run to the KHL?

That worked out pretty well for him.

I am seeing a pattern emerge however among a number of our young players and mgmt, at some point the common denominator must be addressed.

 

[jkutswings]

I'll not saying Holland should cave in to AA. I'm saying that, if I'm AA, I'd sooner play out my career in the KHL than in Detroit.

The kid doesn't seem to be of the mindset that it's more about the team than himself. So if you're just in it for you, then go play in a garbage league for more money and a more enjoyable style of play. It doesn't seem to be a problem for Datsyuk, and other NHL players (including non-Russians) have done it, at least on a limited basis.

People need to stop thinking of the Wings as a place players want to be. That franchise was unceremoniously killed off awhile ago. The team is now in a place where, more often than not, players of any potential would sooner leave than stay. It's just the overpaid grinders that will stick around.

 

[Run the Jewels]

I wonder where we go from here. I pretty much expected Holland to cave because that's what he always does. This could be a case where the salary cap is so screwed up he seriously can't cave. Perhaps they have a handshake deal that when camp starts they will put a few people on LTIR and then they can sign Athanasiou to a more generous contract.

You figure if AA was all about the money he would have announced he's playing the season in the KHL. With nothing seeming to indicate that as being the case I do wonder if he plans to either sign in Detroit or perhaps sit out part of the season like Jacob Trouba did last year.

 

[Dotter]

if I'm AA, I'd sooner play out my career in the KHL than in Detroit.

I highly doubt that. But I'm sure it felt good saying it from your cozy lazy-e-boy like it's 'matter of fact'.

 

[avssuc]

To everyone else: the market shows players in the same category as AA are getting 1.8-2.1 million a season for 2-3 seasons. 1.9 for 2 seasons is exactly what he is worth. The way the CBA is constructed players like him have no leverage. It was designed this way to give teams more control over players. The first step to righting this team isn't to blow that, instead it is to use players with those contracts to lower costs.

Okay, so let's say he's seeking the top end of that at $2.1 mil. Not only can the Wings not float 1.9, they can't do 2.1. What difference does any of this make?

He sees a team littered with terrible contracts, so I'm sure he thinks he should get the max too. Since the team can't afford either, why agree to the low end, let alone a huge discount so Holland can escape the mess he's made for one more year? What indications does he have that the cap situation will get better? The proposition of playing for a perennial loser (weighed down with rich dregs) might make someone more inclined to be difficult in an effort to go elsewhere. I'm sure other teams around the league have taken notice of Holland's cap madness and AA's unwillingness to do Kenny a solid by taking a value deal.

It's probably his attempt to get the Wings to trade him. We won't hear about that until/unless this mess moves into the season, but either way, this is just another reason to flame on Holland.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The team is now in a place where, more often than not, players of any potential would sooner leave than stay. It's just the overpaid grinders that will stick around.

Yeah, sure

Geez. If this is the reaction to AA taking his time signing his new contract I wonder what would happen if we ever had a player like Doughty and he talked about going elsewhere. Or if we had a Drouin that asked to be traded. Would be massive meltdowns.

Okay, so let's say he's seeking the top end of that at $2.1 mil. Not only can the Wings not float 1.9, they can't do 2.1. What difference does any of this make?

He sees a team littered with terrible contracts, so I'm sure he thinks he should get the max too. Since the team can't afford either, why agree to the low end, let alone a huge discount so Holland can escape the mess he's made for one more year? What indications does he have that the cap situation will get better? The proposition of playing for a perennial loser (weighed down with rich dregs) might make someone more inclined to be difficult in an effort to go elsewhere. I'm sure other teams around the league have taken notice of Holland's cap madness and AA's unwillingness to do Kenny a solid by taking a value deal.

1. Going to the KHL doesn't help AA get to a better NHL team faster.
2. Being "difficult" doesn't help his reputation around the league and could hurt his value once he reaches FA status.
3. Wings cap situation should have little or no bearing on AA's decision to sign or not sign an offer. Doesn't matter if Holland offers AA 10 million per year. Yeah we can't afford it right now, but it's not AA's job to calculate the cap and make it work. The cap situation doesn't matter. If AA wants more money he should sign the shortest possible deal that brings him to arbitration and play his heart out until he can get a court to set a contract.

 

[avssuc]

1. Going to the KHL doesn't help AA get to a better NHL team faster.
2. Being "difficult" doesn't help his reputation around the league and could hurt his value once he reaches FA status.
3. Wings cap situation should have little or no bearing on AA's decision to sign or not sign an offer. Doesn't matter if Holland offers AA 10 million per year. Yeah we can't afford it right now, but it's not AA's job to calculate the cap and make it work. The cap situation doesn't matter. If AA wants more money he should sign the shortest possible deal that brings him to arbitration and play his heart out until he can get a court to set a contract.

1) I never mentioned the KHL... so...

2) Reputable character might not be something he cares about. Maybe all he cares about is not being part of a dumpster-fire. Any argument for or against is pure speculation, so none of us can accurately speculate; I just wanted to toss it out there.

3) Why do players take pay cuts to play for teams that have a good shot at winning the cup? That right there destroys your contention. The cap situation in Detroit absolutely plays a role in his contract. The record shows that it's putrid, and the record will probably continue to show that they are one of the worst teams in the league, in part, because of the cap situation.

I really don't know why it's so hard for folks to come to reason here. Detroit is an expensive loser. Some players might think that any out, no matter the cost, is worthwhile. The facts simply don't support your assertions here, no matter how many times you re-word your argument.

 

[vladdy16]

Didn't hudler balk at kenny's RFA offers and run to the KHL?

That worked out pretty well for him.

I am seeing a pattern emerge however among a number of our young players and mgmt, at some point the common denominator must be addressed.

Very different situation. Hudler was being asked to do things that were physically impossible for him to do, and when he tried and failed and the result was being a healthy scratch, he made the decision to make a quick 5 million bucks, as it was now up in the air if he'd ever see that kind of money in his career. Hudler and the Red Wings maintained a relationship through the process because of the reality of the situation.

AA has all the physical tools neccessary to have a full career in the NHL, and his reluctance to sharpen those tools is more alarming than a guy who tried and failed to improve his range/coverage abilities.

I'm not faulting AA for exhausting his options here, but I have no sympathy for him if he feels he's been mishandled by the Red Wings, because the guy is so far from being a complete player.

 

[vladdy16]

Brett Hull?

Hull had 75 assists through his first two seasons in the NHL. AA has 16.

 

[vladdy16]

1) I never mentioned the KHL... so...

2) Reputable character might not be something he cares about. Maybe all he cares about is not being part of a dumpster-fire. Any argument for or against is pure speculation, so none of us can accurately speculate; I just wanted to toss it out there.

3) Why do players take pay cuts to play for teams that have a good shot at winning the cup? That right there destroys your contention. The cap situation in Detroit absolutely plays a role in his contract. The record shows that it's putrid, and the record will probably continue to show that they are one of the worst teams in the league, in part, because of the cap situation.

I really don't know why it's so hard for folks to come to reason here. Detroit is an expensive loser. Some players might think that any out, no matter the cost, is worthwhile. The facts simply don't support your assertions here, no matter how many times you re-word your argument.

That's a lot of speculation.

And I may have missed it, but could anyone explain to me the theory that leveraging the KHL would have AA end up on a different NHL team sooner than if he acted like a normal person?

 

[Frk It]

16 assists in 101 games.

Not sure where you're going with that, but...

Larkin has 19 assists in his last 112 games.

 

[vladdy16]

Not sure where you're going with that, but...

Larkin has 19 assists in his last 112 games.

If Larkin holds out for an above average deal next year and threatens to leave for the KHL, I'd probably be bringing up numbers like that as well.

It's on AA to put forward the argument that his case is an exceptional one. 16 career assists for a one dimensional winger as a RFA is pretty big handicap to start with in that case.

 

[avssuc]

That's a lot of speculation.

And I may have missed it, but could anyone explain to me the theory that leveraging the KHL would have AA end up on a different NHL team sooner than if he acted like a normal person?

It was in reply to speculation. It's 99% of what goes on around here.

None of us are NHL agents, none of us work in the front office, so I'm not sure how absolute folks can get. Much goes on that we will never know about, so it's totally possible that he would use the KHL as an angle. The post-cap world is still evolving, so too is RFA negation. The value of young players is higher than any time poat-cap, so to think that status quo will remain with respect to RFA contracts and negotiations is a bit arrogant.

 

[StargateSG1]

If Larkin holds out for an above average deal next year and threatens to leave for the KHL, I'd probably be bringing up numbers like that as well.

It's on AA to put forward the argument that his case is an exceptional one. 16 career assists for a one dimensional winger as a RFA is pretty big handicap to start with in that case.

Are you judging your favorite "non-dimensional" players like Helm, Abby, Gkendenning by the same criteria?

 

[Henkka]

If I were on a team where Helm and Abdelkader are making ridiculous money, I'd be asking for more than I'm probably realistically worth also.

What if Helm and Abdelkader are great characters, lead our kids by example, bring good team spirit on the lockerroom, and Athanasiou is the exact opposite?

Either way, UFAs can't be compared to RFAs, but when player hesitates to sign a fair offer, there's something more wrong on this situation. It probably is the man in the mirror.

 

[jolly roger]

What if Helm and Abdelkader are great characters, lead our kids by example, bring good team spirit on the lockerroom, and Athanasiou is the exact opposite?

Either way, UFAs can't be compared to RFAs, but when player hesitates to sign a fair offer, there's something more wrong on this situation. It probably is the man in the mirror.

Join the Boy Scouts.

 

[chris05]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
Not sure where you're going with that, but...

Larkin has 19 assists in his last 112 games.
If Larkin holds out for an above average deal next year and threatens to leave for the KHL, I'd probably be bringing up numbers like that as well.

It's on AA to put forward the argument that his case is an exceptional one. 16 career assists for a one dimensional winger as a RFA is pretty big handicap to start with in that case.
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Comparables like that is what leaves the wings front office with egg on their faces. One is a pp specialists nightmare the other one is a spectator from the bench. That would provide an explanation for the big difference in numbers. One is grossly overpaid and the other one is grossly underpaid.

 

[TatarTangle]

I can't believe people are still talking about a player that is a nonfactor on the ice unless he's going coast to coast. And he most definitely isn't a highlight reel, saw someone suggest it. Crosby, Malkin, Patty Kane, McDavid, Laine, etc are highlight reels. AA is a flash in the pan. If he wanted to learn how to play the game of hockey he could amount to a whole lot more, but from what we've read it certinaly doesn't look that way.

 

[TheMule93]

I agree that AA is definitely overrated here. He's good for a highlight every 30 games or so, but that's it. I was hoping to see if he can take the next step this year... hopefully we'll be able to watch him in Detroit come October.

 

[avssuc]

I can't believe people are still talking about a player that is a nonfactor on the ice unless he's going coast to coast. And he most definitely isn't a highlight reel, saw someone suggest it. Crosby, Malkin, Patty Kane, McDavid, Laine, etc are highlight reels. AA is a flash in the pan. If he wanted to learn how to play the game of hockey he could amount to a whole lot more, but from what we've read it certinaly doesn't look that way.

Because he's one of the bright spots on a team full of crap. The Wings cap is loaded with long term dregs, buyouts for losers, and bad short deals, leaving zero to qualify a decent RFA (the Daley contract being the last head-scratcher). This is less about AA, and more about the management that doesn't have the $$$ to offer him 'even' the low end of the comps.

He's the 2017 version of Paul Ysebaert, but he's playing on the 1982 version of the Red Wings... with a maxed out cap, and a select number of futures to be excited about. This is just another Holland thread in disguise.