Andreas Athanasiou

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I agree that AA is definitely overrated here. He's good for a highlight every 30 games or so, but that's it. I was hoping to see if he can take the next step this year... hopefully we'll be able to watch him in Detroit come October.

He had 18 goals in 64 games, so more like a highlight every 4 games or so. And with this roster I'll take all the highlights I can get.

 

[jkutswings]

I highly doubt that. But I'm sure it felt good saying it from your cozy lazy-e-boy like it's 'matter of fact'.

Rather than dodge the issue with personal attacks, give me a good reason or two why AA would want to play for this hockey team. Because I can't think of any.

The current Detroit Red Wings are every bit the lousy team that a Vancouver or Arizona is, and that's not changing in the near future. The days of retaining really good players are over. Shoot, Mike Green isn't even a really good player anymore, and if he hasn't already been traded by then, he's going to set off radar detectors with how fast he gets out of town when his contract expires.

AA is a very niche player, and I wouldn't bend over backwards to keep him. But the nostalgia is getting in the way of people's arguments here. The Wings need AA more than he needs them - not because he's that good, but because they're that starved for life on offense. So he'd be smart to leave if he doesn't like their offer, and just have a career overseas, instead of having a root canal of an experience on a bad team here.

 

[HIFE]

I can't believe people are still talking about a player that is a nonfactor on the ice unless he's going coast to coast. And he most definitely isn't a highlight reel, saw someone suggest it. Crosby, Malkin, Patty Kane, McDavid, Laine, etc are highlight reels. AA is a flash in the pan. If he wanted to learn how to play the game of hockey he could amount to a whole lot more, but from what we've read it certinaly doesn't look that way.

I'm surprised some of you guys have such a low opinion of Athanasiou. Sure most admit he isn't a core piece but man he's a decent player. I don't think you can play in the NHL (for long) not being effective. He's a bright spot and at 23 I wonder why there isn't 100% support for dude regardless of personality. I'm reading complaints he's one-dimensional... but that dimension is top 5 speed in the world and the ability to SCORE GOALS! Can we put into perspective how hard goals are to come by compared to other eras of hockey? AA just has it.

Going through the painful process of watching Pulkkinen, Marchenko, Jurco, Ferraro, Frk, etc. fall off it's encouraging one of our 4th round picks has shown such progress. How long did we tolerate Andersson, Smith, and Kindl? I don't know if it's all the talk or what but I would be a little sad to see AA on another team. I believe there's indications he could have a breakout season even on a weaker team like Detroit.

 

[Shaman464]

Rather than dodge the issue with personal attacks, give me a good reason or two why AA would want to play for this hockey team. Because I can't think of any.

The current Detroit Red Wings are every bit the lousy team that a Vancouver or Arizona is, and that's not changing in the near future. The days of retaining really good players are over. Shoot, Mike Green isn't even a really good player anymore, and if he hasn't already been traded by then, he's going to set off radar detectors with how fast he gets out of town when his contract expires.

AA is a very niche player, and I wouldn't bend over backwards to keep him. But the nostalgia is getting in the way of people's arguments here. The Wings need AA more than he needs them - not because he's that good, but because they're that starved for life on offense. So he'd be smart to leave if he doesn't like their offer, and just have a career overseas, instead of having a root canal of an experience on a bad team here.

1. Typically as teams crater that tends to open up playing time which allows for inflation of stats for second tier players. That is likely in the near future as the team is going to bottom out and players like Abdelkader and Helm become fixtures on the IR.

2. Better teams usually are deeper at non-premium positions, meaning that AA is getting 3rd line minutes, which has been a topic of contention for him in the past. These teams also usually require their players on the top lines to either be elite at one thing or be more well rounded. AA isn't either.

 

[jkutswings]

1. Typically as teams crater that tends to open up playing time which allows for inflation of stats for second tier players. That is likely in the near future as the team is going to bottom out and players like Abdelkader and Helm become fixtures on the IR.

Typically, yes.
On this team? No, because this team distributes ice time more for 'hard work' and 'locker room presence' than for actual production. And unless AA plays the game the way that Blashill wants it, he's not getting more ice time, even if half the team hits the shelf.

2. Better teams usually are deeper at non-premium positions, meaning that AA is getting 3rd line minutes, which has been a topic of contention for him in the past. These teams also usually require their players on the top lines to either be elite at one thing or be more well rounded. AA isn't either.

Very true. But if your choices are:

A) Work at your game to play on a good team
B) Work at your game to play on a bad team
C) Coast as you are, and make good money in Russia

I see AA as preferring Door Number 3 over Door Number 2.

 

[Shaman464]

Typically, yes.
On this team? No, because this team distributes ice time more for 'hard work' and 'locker room presence' than for actual production. And unless AA plays the game the way that Blashill wants it, he's not getting more ice time, even if half the team hits the shelf.


Very true. But if your choices are:

A) Work at your game to play on a good team
B) Work at your game to play on a bad team
C) Coast as you are, and make good money in Russia

I see AA as preferring Door Number 3 over Door Number 2.

Door number 3 comes with a few asterisks, like torpedoing his current NHL career track, still being Detroit property at the same time as burning that bridge, being thousands of miles from his home for months on end, the worsening geopolitical relationships between the US and Canada and Russia. Remember that hockey team that died in a plane crash? Civil aviation hasn't improved in Russia since. Most of Russia outside of St Petersberg and Moscow is closer to a third world country than a first. And I could go on.

Its just not a simple as going to Russia.

 

[jkutswings]

Door number 3 comes with a few asterisks, like torpedoing his current NHL career track, still being Detroit property at the same time as burning that bridge, being thousands of miles from his home for months on end, the worsening geopolitical relationships between the US and Canada and Russia. Remember that hockey team that died in a plane crash? Civil aviation hasn't improved in Russia since. Most of Russia outside of St Petersberg and Moscow is closer to a third world country than a first. And I could go on.

Its just not a simple as going to Russia.

For as terrible as you make it sound, I seem to remember the last Red Wing heading over there, and things turning out ok for him:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...red-wings-pavel-datsyuk-khl-finals/100553002/

I'm not saying the KHL is a paradise. But if you hate your current coach, and your current team is a bottom feeder, it's not like Detroit is coming up roses, either. (And you're assuming that the kid wants to stay in the NHL more than he doesn't want to get nagged/benched for not changing his game.)

 

[Shaman464]

For as terrible as you make it sound, I seem to remember the last Red Wing heading over there, and things turning out ok for him:

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...red-wings-pavel-datsyuk-khl-finals/100553002/

I'm not saying the KHL is a paradise. But if you hate your current coach, and your current team is a bottom feeder, it's not like Detroit is coming up roses, either. (And you're assuming that the kid wants to stay in the NHL more than he doesn't want to get nagged/benched for not changing his game.)

Yep, for a Russian, who speaks the language, who is from the country, and knows the culture, what to expect, doesn't have obligations to another country (tax, personal, etc), its not so bad. AA is Canadian, whose family is Canadian, who has to pay Canadian taxes, and likely has no frame of reference for what its like to live in Russia.

 

[Mijatovic]

Neither do you regarding Russia but its not like Detroit is some amazing place to live either.

I am sure there are plenty of places that are perfectly fine over there.

 

[Shaman464]

Neither do you regarding Russia but its not like Detroit is some amazing place to live either.

I am sure there are plenty of places that are perfectly fine over there.

Actually I lived in Eastern Europe. But funny how you assume. Romania, Hungary, and a significant time in Russia. But, no I don't know anything about life in the East.

 

[vladdy16]

Rather than dodge the issue with personal attacks, give me a good reason or two why AA would want to play for this hockey team. Because I can't think of any.

I can't think of any reasons why Detroit isn't the perfect team for AA.

He has chemistry with some of the players, he'll get plenty of icetime and a prominent role on the team, the team is in a position where it won't be shielding itself from his growing pains as much as others, great veteren leadership and a supportive fanbase, a chance to be competitive if young players like himself exceed expectations.

It's harder to think of reasons as to why AA is somehow above the other players on the team or it's other recent RFA's.

Are you judging your favorite "non-dimensional" players like Helm, Abby, Gkendenning by the same criteria?

Not sure where you're getting who my favorite players are from, but all 3 of the players you listed signed their contracts between 28-30 years of age, and AA is 23 and a RFA, so I would use different criteria.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I can't think of any reasons why Detroit isn't the perfect team for AA.

He has chemistry with some of the players, he'll get plenty of icetime and a prominent role on the team, the team is in a position where it won't be shielding itself from his growing pains as much as others, great veteren leadership and a supportive fanbase, a chance to be competitive if young players like himself exceed expectations.

It's harder to think of reasons as to why AA is somehow above the other players on the team or it's other recent RFA's.



Not sure where you're getting who my favorite players are from, but all 3 of the players you listed signed their contracts between 28-30 years of age, and AA is 23 and a RFA, so I would use different criteria.

He's not saying your actual favorite players. Just saying "defend your boy" as a "but what about this?" defense. None of the UFA contracts that the Wings have signed have any bearing on Andreas Atahansiou. But it is just an easy and dumb argument to say ABBY AND HELM GOT THEIR MONEY, wtf, AA is like ten times the player they are.

 

[Winger98]

I can't think of any reasons why Detroit isn't the perfect team for AA.

He has chemistry with some of the players, he'll get plenty of icetime and a prominent role on the team, the team is in a position where it won't be shielding itself from his growing pains as much as others, great veteren leadership and a supportive fanbase, a chance to be competitive if young players like himself exceed expectations.

It's harder to think of reasons as to why AA is somehow above the other players on the team or it's other recent RFA's.

Well, I think it might be because the team you outline isn't necessarily the team that players see from the inside. Detroit should be a team where young guys get a ton of opportunity, that grows with them, etc.

There were rumblings from that locker room for the first time in ages, and a lot of seemed to center around a rift between the younger guys, the vets, and Blashill. Athanasiou might be looking at this team and thinking he's going to get 13 minutes a night with no power play time. And it seems Holland might still look to add another vet forward to the mix, and he has higher picks in Svechnikov and Rasmussen coming up behind him. If he has any issues with Blashill on top of that, I can see how it's not a great place for him.

 

[StargateSG1]

I can't think of any reasons why Detroit isn't the perfect team for AA.

He has chemistry with some of the players, he'll get plenty of icetime and a prominent role on the team, the team is in a position where it won't be shielding itself from his growing pains as much as others, great veteren leadership and a supportive fanbase, a chance to be competitive if young players like himself exceed expectations.

It's harder to think of reasons as to why AA is somehow above the other players on the team or it's other recent RFA's.



Not sure where you're getting who my favorite players are from, but all 3 of the players you listed signed their contracts between 28-30 years of age, and AA is 23 and a RFA, so I would use different criteria.

UFAs should be held to even higher standards that RFAs are held by you and the likes.
All RFAs deals are short and for less money.
If AA is "one dimensional" and you count assists, you should be furious when crunching numbers for Abdelkader, Helm, Glendenning and so on.
Yet, you defend them, because "they were UFAs".
I don't give a damn if they are aliens.
Double standard is evident.

Perhaps AA uses Connor Sheary as a recent comparable.

 

[Pavels Dog]

1) I never mentioned the KHL... so...

2) Reputable character might not be something he cares about. Maybe all he cares about is not being part of a dumpster-fire. Any argument for or against is pure speculation, so none of us can accurately speculate; I just wanted to toss it out there.

3) Why do players take pay cuts to play for teams that have a good shot at winning the cup? That right there destroys your contention. The cap situation in Detroit absolutely plays a role in his contract. The record shows that it's putrid, and the record will probably continue to show that they are one of the worst teams in the league, in part, because of the cap situation.

I really don't know why it's so hard for folks to come to reason here. Detroit is an expensive loser. Some players might think that any out, no matter the cost, is worthwhile. The facts simply don't support your assertions here, no matter how many times you re-word your argument.

1) You talked about him being difficult in an effort to get elsewhere, that elsewhere is the KHL.
2) It's great if he wants to win. But if he wants to win in the NHL his only real option right now is to be the best he can be and help the Wings get better. You talk as if the Wings are a team that's been at the bottom for decades and has zero potential to ever become better.
3) How often does that happen? Yeah some UFAs have chosen to sign for less money with contenders in an effort to win. It's not applicable to RFAs really. No one's asking AA to take a paycut. He's being offered a deal according to his comparables. Holland would have no reason to increase his offer even if he was playing around with millions in cap space because AA has no leverage and no ammunition to claim he's worth more than guys like Bennet/Brown/etc.

 

[Ezekial]

UFAs should be held to even higher standards that RFAs are held by you and the likes.
All RFAs deals are short and for less money.
If AA is "one dimensional" and you count assists, you should be furious when crunching numbers for Abdelkader, Helm, Glendenning and so on.
Yet, you defend them, because "they were UFAs".
I don't give a damn if they are aliens.
Double standard is evident.

Perhaps AA uses Connor Sheary as a recent comparable.

Yes the guy who has nearly 20 more points in as many games (approx 150% production) is an outstanding comparable. But Anthony Duclair is not even in the same ballpark. You sir are a vat of knowledge for us to drink from.

No one defends the contracts we're just pointing out the obvious to you that their situations shouldn't, and don't affect each other.

 

[StargateSG1]

https://www.nhl.com/news/ken-hollan...ready-to-compete-for-playoff-spot/c-290980228

LOL

We are "secretly rebuilding", right?

 

[StargateSG1]

Yes the guy who has nearly 20 more points in as many games (approx 150% production) is an outstanding comparable. But Anthony Duclair is not even in the same ballpark. You sir are a vat of knowledge for us to drink from.

No one defends the contracts we're just pointing out the obvious to you that their situations shouldn't, and don't affect each other.

With a finite dollar amount to spend on the entire team, everything has an affect. If you overspend in other places, you can't spend somewhere else.
1.9 million, or 2.3 million, he doesn't have the money without making the moves.
How many times does the obvious have to be stated?

 

[Ezekial]

With a finite dollar amount to spend on the entire team, everything has an affect. If you overspend in other places, you can't spend somewhere else.
1.9 million, or 2.3 million, he doesn't have the money without making the moves.
How many times does the obvious have to be stated?

I'm well aware of our teams cap situation and I'm willing to bet moreso than yourself. I don't like Ken Holland as our GM and I want him fired. You bring nothing to these conversations.

 

[jkutswings]

https://www.nhl.com/news/ken-hollan...ready-to-compete-for-playoff-spot/c-290980228

LOL

We are "secretly rebuilding", right?

Indeed. Detroit could've had zero man games lost to injury, and they still would've had a ceiling of 1st round exit.

Sounds more like the weavers have convinced the emperor how beautiful that special new fabric is...

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

UFAs should be held to even higher standards that RFAs are held by you and the likes.
All RFAs deals are short and for less money.
If AA is "one dimensional" and you count assists, you should be furious when crunching numbers for Abdelkader, Helm, Glendenning and so on.
Yet, you defend them, because "they were UFAs".
I don't give a damn if they are aliens.
Double standard is evident.

Perhaps AA uses Connor Sheary as a recent comparable.

UFAs have more negotiation power than RFAs. They can go to another team and sign a deal and the team can't match. It's got nothing to do with "holding them to a higher standard", it's common negotiation.

I can realistically offer my wanted services to 30 teams or to 1 team. I wonder why I have less negotiation power in the second scenario.

All RFA deals? Like Connor McDavid's 8 yr, 12.5M right? Leon Draisaitl's 8M? Oskar Klefbom's 4M for 6 years, Roman Josi's 4M for 6 years. You sign a guy to a longer deal if you think he'll provide surplus value. If Edmonton didn't sign McDavid to 2.5M under the max now, he'd be getting 15-16M when the cap goes up and he hits FA. Klefbom and Josi had borderline top pairing potential when they signed. If they bridge contracted them, they'd get 2 and then 6-8 when they're eventually a top pairing D.

Unless you somehow think that Andreas Athanasiou will be a bonafide stud top 6 wing within two to three years, you sign him to a cheaper deal when you have the leverage to.

And when people say the dimensions for "one-dimensional", it is more akin to "one-way winger". He's fantastic on the rush and is always looking at the offensive side. When he plays defense, too often he lets up and doesn't chase it with the same fire as a breakaway that could lead to a goal. For you to argue that AA is anything but an all-offense third line scoring winger, you're being obtuse for the sake of an argument. It's not a sin to be a one dimensional player. It's not a sin to focus your effort at the break. However, it doesn't help your case in searching a more valuable contract than your comparables who play just as much offense as you, but also are good defensively.

And it's not so much defending them as "the negotiations went this way and Holland felt pressure to cave because they were UFAs and it was up his offer or lose them to another NHL team for nothing.

And if AA is using Conor Sheary as a comparable, he and his agent are morons. Sheary potted nearly double the points in 110 more minutes of ice time (or the equivalent of two more full hockey games.

If we want to go crazy bat**** with comparables, why doesn't his agent compare him to Auston Matthews? Isn't his g/60 or p/60 on the same level? 8M contract incoming for AA! 8M AAV or die!

 

[Pavels Dog]

Indeed. Detroit could've had zero man games lost to injury, and they still would've had a ceiling of 1st round exit.

Sounds more like the weavers have convinced the emperor how beautiful that special new fabric is...

Read between the lines and he's essentially saying "if players bounce back, the powerplay improves and kids take a step or two forward we can make the playoffs". Do you disagree? This roster isn't without potential, and Holland did nothing this offseason to make a strong external addition to our playoff chances. It's going to be 90% about internal improvements if we're going to have a decent season.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Indeed. Detroit could've had zero man games lost to injury, and they still would've had a ceiling of 1st round exit.

Sounds more like the weavers have convinced the emperor how beautiful that special new fabric is...

If you feel like this... what in the hell is the point of being a fan? I'm not saying you should try to look at sunny sides of everything... but damn. If you're this ****ing pessimistic, why are you wasting your time paying any attention to this team? Why are you wasting any time arguing that they're that bad?

Move on and do something, anything else. It will undoubtedly make you happier than paying attention to this team that you clearly hate.

 

[HisNoodliness]

If you feel like this... what in the hell is the point of being a fan? I'm not saying you should try to look at sunny sides of everything... but damn. If you're this ****ing pessimistic, why are you wasting your time paying any attention to this team? Why are you wasting any time arguing that they're that bad?

Move on and do something, anything else. It will undoubtedly make you happier than paying attention to this team that you clearly hate.

I'm super pessimistic about the Wings these days. I'm sure you've seen my posts. We're one of the worst teams in the league and I don't see any indication that management is even somewhat capable of fixing the problem. I hate the direction of the team and our management philosophy. I certainly don't hate the Detroit Red Wings. I love them. I'm a Wings fan.

Why? Because when I was a little kid my favorite color was red so they're the team I chose and I'm an intensely loyal person. Most people willing to read and post in the corners of the internet about hockey are extremely passionate fans. It's not the kind of thing where we can simply stop caring about a team. I've loved the Wings my whole life. That's not about to change because we're bad.

Will I watch fewer games this year? Probably, I usually watch all of them and that sounds like quite a chore this year. I've stopped buying merchandise and such. I intend to watch the Lightning more (they're my secondary) and check out some teams I usually completely ignore. But at the end of the year I'll still be a Wings fan and there's not much I can do to stop that. Sports are about passionately and illogically following a team. When they lose it sucks, but when they win its that much more rewarding. That's why sports are fun. There's no real reason to care about which team managed to put a rubber disk into a net at the right moments over the course of a year. That's insane. But I've never been accused of anything less.

 

[The Zermanator]

https://www.nhl.com/news/ken-hollan...ready-to-compete-for-playoff-spot/c-290980228

LOL

We are "secretly rebuilding", right?

Just... wow. The man is totally deluded, he has completely lost (or maybe never had) the ability to realistically evaluate the team's circumstances and future prospects.

He brings up being the last team to miss the playoffs since the lockout. Well that is overwhelmingly because of 3 names, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom. They were the main drivers pushing the team, from the lockout until Lidstrom's retirement. Once Lidstrom retired and Holland was caught with his pants down, he changed course to relying on vets that were just 'good enough' to squeak into the playoffs, with diminishing returns every passing year. Oh and they consistently got signed to bloated contracts. In my opinion, Holland mortgaged this team's medium and long term futures in order to squeeze out as many playoff appearances as he could in the short term, and the absolute dog**** situation this team now finds itself in is a direct result of that.

If you feel like this... what in the hell is the point of being a fan? I'm not saying you should try to look at sunny sides of everything... but damn. If you're this ****ing pessimistic, why are you wasting your time paying any attention to this team? Why are you wasting any time arguing that they're that bad?

Move on and do something, anything else. It will undoubtedly make you happier than paying attention to this team that you clearly hate.

Ken Holland is not the Detroit Red Wings, the Detroit Red Wings are not Ken Holland. There's a difference. The team is larger than the GM.

You can flip that around too, why be a fan if you have such low expectations that you would excuse mediocrity from a team whose legacy includes 11 Cup Wins, Howe, Yzerman, Lidstrom, Fedorov, Hasek, etc? And you consider the way this team is being run (and the ensuing results) acceptable considering that legacy? And you're a fan? Fun game, isn't it?

I don't think the current Old Boys Club is doing this team and its legacy justice by running the org the way they have over the past 7 years. I'm highly critical of the decisions made by management because I'm a fan. Like I said, this team is more than Ken Holland. And with the way things are being run, I think it deserves more than Ken Holland (circa 2011-2017).