Rumor: All Purpose Phil Kessel Trade Thread

[Empoleon8771]

It’s just the market circumstance. The Pens have so few options. Say you’re the only bidder for a house. Is there any reason to submit a ‘fair’ offer?

There's a difference between "submitting a fair offer" and saying "we'll take a PPG player off your hands if you pay us to take him". Chayka is completely being a clown by suggesting that.

This scenario reminds me of something....just can't put my finger on it.....

If you're implying that Marleau and Kessel are even remotely similar...oh boy.

The kind of mental gymnastics that you have to do to equate Marleau and Kessel is Olympic worthy.

 

[Liferleafer]

There's a difference between "submitting a fair offer" and saying "we'll take a PPG player off your hands if you pay us to take him". Chayka is completely being a clown by suggesting that.



If you're implying that Marleau and Kessel are even remotely similar...oh boy.

The kind of mental gymnastics that you have to do to equate Marleau and Kessel is Olympic worthy.

No...i'm implying that when the Leafs were trading a much younger Kessel....we had a very limited market...had to retain...and got back less than he was actually worth, which at the time, Pens fans loved to point out to us. Welcome to the other side of the coin.

Honestly, how could you think i was talking about Marleau?

 

[domaug]

By that reasoning, since PITT added Johnson and Gudbranson that means they are going to add another useless, overpaid D and get Phaneuf from LA.

Gudbranson has been okay since getting traded to the Pens, but I agree

 

[hbk]

There's a difference between "submitting a fair offer" and saying "we'll take a PPG player off your hands if you pay us to take him". Chayka is completely being a clown by suggesting that.

Kessel at 32 isn't a great fit budget wise or for where the AZ team is at in its rebuild and there are numerous teams up against the cap where their "futures" offer will hold much more value. Expecting AZ to not pursue those scenarios to pay the Penguins a kings ransom by dealing their top young players in the process is humerous. It won't be a "hockey deal" if Kessel goes to AZ.

 

[molon labe]

No...i'm implying that when the Leafs were trading a much younger Kessel....we had a very limited market...had to retain...and got back less than he was actually worth, which at the time, Pens fans loved to point out to us. Welcome to the other side of the coin.

Honestly, how could you think i was talking about Marleau?

8M then is far different than 6.8M now. Players in that tier were exclusive. Players in the 6-7M tier now are abundant - very few are producing PPG.

The house analogy works, however Kessel still has 8 teams (7 minus AZ?) that he has no choice but to go to if traded. Maybe the other teams don't want to offer anything at all; but we'd rather take a 7th round pick than have to retain on Kessel. The notion of retention on his current deal is ridiculous. If AZ won't play ball, and Kessel won't play ball - JR should find a way to ship him to the team furthest from the playoffs among the 7 remaining for whatever they feel like offering up. His value to us has been captured, and his future value is the cap space he represents.

 

[57special]

It's probably listed and I missed it, but does anyone know the other 7 teams that Kessel approved? Not that I don't love talking about ARI, Chayka, and Dvorak endlessly.

 

[molon labe]

It's probably listed and I missed it, but does anyone know the other 7 teams that Kessel approved? Not that I don't love talking about ARI, Chayka, and Dvorak endlessly.

Speculation from previous list and current rationale.

No definitive list has been posted.

 

[Mosby]

There's a difference between "submitting a fair offer" and saying "we'll take a PPG player off your hands if you pay us to take him". Chayka is completely being a clown by suggesting that.



If you're implying that Marleau and Kessel are even remotely similar...oh boy.

The kind of mental gymnastics that you have to do to equate Marleau and Kessel is Olympic worthy.

Who said anything about Marleau?

 

[Mosby]

No but I may decide if I don’t like the other options for sale just to keep my old house that’s paid for at a discounted rate if Kessel really wants out he would be willing to work with Pittsburgh by giving them a realistic 8 team list especially if his first choice Arizona isn’t in love with him

Maybe, but it sounds like Chayka is betting that Kessel has to be moved at all costs because his relationship with Sullivan is untenable.

 

[domaug]

It's probably listed and I missed it, but does anyone know the other 7 teams that Kessel approved? Not that I don't love talking about ARI, Chayka, and Dvorak endlessly.

i don't think we will see any list unless it's leaked or it's published after he's traded somewhere. there are probably some GM's who know whether they're on it or not.

but yeah i would rather not talk about Arizona anymore

 

[molon labe]

Maybe, but it sounds like Chayka is betting that Kessel has to be moved at all costs because his relationship with Sullivan is untenable.

It's more than that. The logic has been beaten to death - though I understand folks on the outside may not realize it:

- Kessel will only play* in the top 6
- Crosby does not want to play with Kessel
- Geno and Kessel are terrible together


What are the Pens supposed to do? Force Sid to play with someone he doesn't want to play with? Keep rolling with Geno/Kessel for net-negatives and diminishing the power of the 1-2 punch we've had? Take a half-assed effort from Kessel on the third line going forward?

 

[badboy1994]

Dallas and Pittsburgh has one of the best trading relationships in the entire NHL

I could see a deal around Faska, Honka and a draft pick for Kessel.


Zuccarello, Hintz and Kessel would be a nasty secound line

 

[Mosby]

^ I'd add that they also need to move Kessel because they need the cap flexibility. Right now they have about $3 million (with 4 forwards left to sign) to try to shake up a team that got swept out of the playoffs. Not easy.

 

[domaug]

Dallas and Pittsburgh has one of the best trading relationships in the entire NHL

I could see a deal around Faska, Honka and a draft pick for Kessel.


Zuccarello, Hintz and Kessel would be a nasty secound line

i wouldn't be against that depending on the cap. Pens need to open up space.

 

[57special]

i wouldn't be against that depending on the cap. Pens need to open up space.

But that certainly doesn't come close to replacing Kessel's scoring.

 

[badboy1994]

i wouldn't be against that depending on the cap. Pens need to open up space.

Faska is a RFA, looking at 3 million a year for him. I hate the idea of moving Faska because he is exactly what every cup winner needs. But I’m trying to be fair and not offer garbage lol

And to be honest, Honka is Nisky 2•0, I knew Nisky would work out in the Neal trade. He just needed to be gone from Dallas

 

[domaug]

But that certainly doesn't come close to replacing Kessel's scoring.

no, i worded my post wrong. i think as long as they're getting a little less cap back or about the same, it could benefit them. they can't afford to take on more cap.

JR suggested he wanted to move Kessel in a hockey trade so the above is easier said than done.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No...i'm implying that when the Leafs were trading a much younger Kessel....we had a very limited market...had to retain...and got back less than he was actually worth, which at the time, Pens fans loved to point out to us. Welcome to the other side of the coin.

Honestly, how could you think i was talking about Marleau?

They still got a return for Kessel, albeit a poor one. The Chayka suggestion was the Penguins paying Arizona to take him, which is downright ridiculous. There's a difference between "I'll give you a 2nd for Kessel" and "pay us to take Kessel", the latter is a slap in the face.

Who said anything about Marleau?

I thought they were talking about Marleau because there has been a discussion about the Leafs adding to Marleau to get someone to take him.

Kessel at 32 isn't a great fit budget wise or for where the AZ team is at in its rebuild and there are numerous teams up against the cap where their "futures" offer will hold much more value. Expecting AZ to not pursue those scenarios to pay the Penguins a kings ransom by dealing their top young players in the process is humerous. It won't be a "hockey deal" if Kessel goes to AZ.

Again, there's a huge difference between "a huge return" and "pay us to take him". Chayka saying "we'll take Kessel if you throw in a sweetener" is a slap in JR's face, it's Chayka being a clown. It's the same crap that HFers do when they post "I don't want this player, but I'll give you an insultingly bad package for him".

 

[Toby Flenderson]

I really want to know what teams are on his list. If Chayka wants to play hardball and not offer anything of substance than f*** him, there must be 7 other teams.

I could see Nashville, Colorado, Dallas, and Carolina as logical spots. Even NJ could have interest if they are serious about getting Hall to re-sign.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

Dallas and Pittsburgh has one of the best trading relationships in the entire NHL

I could see a deal around Faska, Honka and a draft pick for Kessel.


Zuccarello, Hintz and Kessel would be a nasty secound line

I would certainly do something like that. I’ve wanted Faksa on the Pens for a while he’s the perfect 3C.

Not so sure about the need for Honka, but I wouldn’t be upset if he was in the deal. Would Faksa + Tufte work for both sides?

 

[Mosby]

The report didn't say "pay us to take him" though. Just that Chayka is unwilling to pay what Kessel's value would be under normal circumstances. These are not normal circumstances though (no-trade clause, which is potentially padded, the Sullivan relationship, Pens needing cap, etc.), so Kessel's value is deflated. Retention is asking too much though, I think.

 

[Toby Flenderson]

The report didn't say "pay us to take him" though. Just that Chayka is unwilling to pay what Kessel's value would be under normal circumstances. There are not normal circumstances though (no-trade clause, which is potentially padded, the Sullivan relationship, Pens needing cap, etc.), so Kessel's value is deflated. Retention is asking too much though, I think.

The offers being thrown around on here are already lowball offers because of Kessel’s situation. No one is asking for “fair value”.

If we were going of just straight up value, a guy like Galchenyuk wouldn’t be nearly enough for a ppg player like Kessel. Gally for Kessel straight up is already screwing the Pens. The fact that Chayka doesn’t even want to pay that is ridiculous. Or 14th OA + a prospect would acceptable under the current Kessel conditions but it sounds like Chayka won’t even cough up that.

He’s being a dick. But it’s fine there’s 7 other teams we can trade Kessel to.

 

[Empoleon8771]

The report didn't say "pay us to take him" though. Just that Chayka is unwilling to pay what Kessel's value would be under normal circumstances. These are not normal circumstances though (no-trade clause, which is potentially padded, the Sullivan relationship, Pens needing cap, etc.), so Kessel's value is deflated. Retention is asking too much though, I think.

Oh crap, I misread the quote then. I thought it was saying "the Coyotes would take Kessel, but only if they were getting a little back from the Penguins for doing so". Getting a bad return is fine for Chayka to suggest, I thought Chayka was suggesting the Penguins add to Kessel to get the Coyotes to take him.

So I retract my rant because I can't read

 

[domaug]

The report didn't say "pay us to take him" though. Just that Chayka is unwilling to pay what Kessel's value would be under normal circumstances. These are not normal circumstances though (no-trade clause, which is potentially padded, the Sullivan relationship, Pens needing cap, etc.), so Kessel's value is deflated. Retention is asking too much though, I think.

i interpreted that info by Custance to mean that Arizona was only willing to give up very minor pieces and would want Pittsburgh to retain salary.

if that's the reality, f*** the Coyotes and Kessel can suck it up with Pittsburgh for another season.

 

[Gurglesons]

Dallas and Pittsburgh has one of the best trading relationships in the entire NHL

I could see a deal around Faska, Honka and a draft pick for Kessel.


Zuccarello, Hintz and Kessel would be a nasty secound line

I think many Penguin fans are down for this deal.

It kind of sucks because Bjugstad has been a relatively solid 3C for us, but Faksa like Zucker is probably the best we are looking at.

I think the proposed Faksa, Nichuskin and Honka for Kessel and JJ would be relatively intriguing.