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Prospect Info: All Prospect Talk Part 3

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HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Jan 26, 2011
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Kurtosis said:
I'm not mad at all. A little angry at the circumstances maybe, but definitely not mad.
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Mad probably wasn't the best word. Would you rather blame Bowman/Q/whoever.

At the end of the day, the Hawks may lose K.Hayes because they have a deep roster and pipeline and a lot of prospects want easier roads to the NHL. Yes it's understandable, but like Hawkaholic said - while you always want the best players here - you want guys that want to be here more than anything.
 

moose vasko

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Mar 3, 2011
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I don't think anyone should blow off Hayes not signing. He is one of the top 5 prospects in the org. I think the original plan was him at center, but if he is more comfortable at wing we could still use him.

John's path is less congested, but with JVR's brother signing this morning who knows if that means anything.

A second round pick for a first-round prospect with 4 years development is a pretty raw deal. I'll be pissed if Hayes does not sign (but is there anything more to it than the Myers tweet?)
 
HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Hawkaholic said:
Too early for us, never too early for scouts.

I think there is a reason why NHL teams are trying to load up on 2015 picks instead of 2014 picks.
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I haven't read or heard much talk about the depth of the draft going into the 2nd round and beyond.. I've heard a lot of talk about the top-10 of the draft.
 
Taze em

Taze em

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Blackhawkswincup said:
Only thing I would bash Bowman for is not moving either guy in trade when they had value given this was possibility when both expressed interest in remaining at schools
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For Hayes he couldn't possibly have done better than 2015 #54 at the deadline.

If Johns doesn't sign then yes, Bowman can be bashed for not dealing him since we don't get compensation.
 
HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Kurtosis said:
I'm not blaming anyone. Like I said, I'm angry/disappointed in the circumstances and that it is a waste of a first round pick. It's certainly not the end of the world though.
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I find this happens a lot when I post.. I just have to be more clear, my bad. I'm not talking specifically about you, just saying that you (anyone) could be mad/blame Bowman/Q or they could look at it for what it is: The Hawks are a deep team with a deep system and some prospects want easier roads to the NHL. In those circumstances, there's nothing the Org. can do. They treat all their prospects with class, develop the, and do their work with them.. it just doesn't always pay off with loyalty.

And I know some would argue that the kids don't owe the Hawks any loyalty.. that's fine. I think that when you get drafted by a team, you stay with them - because they liked/believed in you before you had a breakout season or college (or something like that).
 
Blackhawkswincup

Blackhawkswincup

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Taze em said:
For Hayes he couldn't possibly have done better than 2015 #54 at the deadline.

If Johns doesn't sign then yes, Bowman can be bashed for not dealing him since we don't get compensation.
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Disagree about Hayes value only being comparable to comp pick

Could have been used as trade chip in recent years especially in search for a #2C
 
HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Taze em said:
For Hayes he couldn't possibly have done better than 2015 #54 at the deadline.

If Johns doesn't sign then yes, Bowman can be bashed for not dealing him since we don't get compensation.
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Other team's NHL GMs aren't stupid.

If the Ducks couldn't get anything for J. Schultz, how are the Hawks going to get anything for Johns or K.Hayes?

Teams aren't going to give up assets when they could wait and attempt to sign the player when he becomes a free-agent.
 
HockeySauce

HockeySauce

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Blackhawkswincup said:
Disagree about Hayes value only being comparable to comp pick

Could have been used as trade chip in recent years especially in search for a #2C
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In recent years? He hasn't really performed like a 1st round pick in College until this season. Last year he was good, but he also suffered a near career-ending injury toward the end of the season.

The K.Hayes before this season was never going to be able to be a significant piece of any trade.
 
Taze em

Taze em

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Blackhawkswincup said:
Disagree about Hayes value only being comparable to comp pick

Could have been used as trade chip in recent years especially in search for a #2C
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Maybe but remember: Hayes was a semi-bust until this season. His numbers were not 1st round pick numbers. Hell wasn't he BC's 3C until this year?
 
DisgruntledHawkFan

DisgruntledHawkFan

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Hawkaholic said:
Decent is being generous. And being an OK bottom 6 player is more or less a dud in my eyes, depending on the hype of the player. In this case, Kayes is a 1st round pick, and tearing up BC. A dud would be an OK bottom 6 player.
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Depends on the bottom six type. Another Kruger/Shaw for a late first? Absolutely.
 
Taze em

Taze em

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In the tweet HawksCap asked about johns and Hayes, she only said that Hayes isn't expected to be signed. You could take the leap and then say that she hasn't heard the same thing on Johns or else she would have mentioned it as well.
 
Sevanston

Sevanston

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Taze em said:
Maybe but remember: Hayes was a semi-bust until this season. His numbers were not 1st round pick numbers. Hell wasn't he BC's 3C until this year?
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He was on their second line last year. He'd split center duties there with Bill Arnold.

BC's #1C last year, Pat Mullane, is now a 4th liner in Rockford.
 
Blackhawkswincup

Blackhawkswincup

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SLarmer28 said:
Kevin Hayes is the only first round draft pick that Bowman selected who played collegiate hockey.
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And your point?

1st round 2010 - Kevin Hayes
2nd round 2010 - Justin Holl
2nd round 2010 - Stephen Johns
6th round 2010 - Nick Mattson
2nd round 2011 - Adam Clendening
3rd round 2011 - Michael Paliotta
6th round 2011 - Sam Jardine
3rd round 2012 - Chris Calnan
6th round 2012 - Vince Hinostoza
7th round 2012 - Matt Tompkins
3rd round 2013 - John Hayden
4th round 2013 - Tyler Motte
5th round 2013 - Luke Johnson
6th round 2013 - Anthony Louis

Traded for Leddy + Hayes who were both in NCAA
Signed Leblanc/TVR/Carey out of NCAA

I believe both Broadhursts came out of WCHA as well

No secret Bowman enjoys US College route for prospects

SLarmer28 said:
As opposed to the following players:

Ludvig Rensfeldt - bust
Rob Flick - bust
Mirko Hoefflin - bust

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00005218.html
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And your point?

Busts happen

Having two highly regarded prospects walk away without signing after waiting years is an issue
 
Sevanston

Sevanston

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I'm not too worried about Kayes not wanting to sign here.

I like him as a prospect and I want to see how he does in the pros, but I also don't think we're losing much if the guy doesn't want to be here.

We already have one of the best rosters and farm systems in the NHL. If Kayes doesn't want to be a part of that then there's not much to say. Wish him the best and move on.
 
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