Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXXV: Trotzyism in Action

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CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Also the offense is worse as there is no proven 2C and Chimera and Ward are all but guaranteed to fall back down to earth (still being good 3rd liners though)

Some would say there wasn't a proven 2C last year either. Matty Perreault's PPG numbers were pretty similar for Christ's sake. (.60 to .62 for Grabo)

How sad is the state of the NHL game that a player only has to score 40pts to be in the top 60 scoring centers?
 

Brian23

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Dec 3, 2011
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Paul Bissonnette (@BizNasty2point0) tells @TEAM1040 he's close to a deal with a #NHL team. Waiting for a trade to happen before he can sign.

If its us...what could it be...I'm also hoping we're not paying much north of a million a year for him...
 

BobRouse

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Mar 18, 2009
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Oates sucked last year, but ditching him for Trotz is not some magic bullet. A lot of people are overstating how much Oates sucked (this time last off-season, he was widley praised as the Ovechkin-whisperer), and we still have no idea how well Trotz will mesh with this group or really how much a coaching change in general will mean to this team that has burned through coaches left and right.

I agree about how Trotz will mesh. I have my share of concerns there.

However...Oates was beyond brutal and words cannot do it justice.

Lets see:

1) Takes GMs acquisitions (Erat and Penner) and doesn't use them despite them being quality players and better than some other options.

2) Tells our goalie, who has been very successful in his early career, to change his style. I've never heard a non-goalie head coach do this. The result? Worst year for Holtby. Shocking.

3) Tells our players NOT to block shots. WHAT?? ALL teams are concentrating on blocking shots for a reason. But Oates knows an ancient secret I guess...

4) Handedness...

5) Playing wingers at Center and Centers at Wing.

6) Doesn't hardly use Wilson or Kuznetsov despite their performance.

7) Ovechkin with Beagle

Something happened to Oates last year. The prior year he showed promise but red flags showed up early with the Erat situation and then Holtby game changing etc.

You can't really downplay any of those brutal decisions.
 

Hivemind

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Oct 8, 2010
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I'm not defending Oates, just stating that a coaching change here is no magic bullet to make the team a lock for the playoffs.

If its us...what could it be...I'm also hoping we're not paying much north of a million a year for him...

Eric Belanger 2.0 :sarcasm:

Seriously though, I can't imagine that he commands a $1M+ contract with his resume. Not sure who we'd have to be trading away. Volpatti, I guess? But that's not a contract you have to move before signing someone else, you just bury it in the minors if he doesn't make the top 13/14 forwards, or leave him in the press box. :dunno:
 

BobRouse

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I'm not defending Oates, just stating that a coaching change here is no magic bullet to make the team a lock for the playoffs.



Eric Belanger 2.0 :sarcasm:

Seriously though, I can't imagine that he commands a $1M+ contract with his resume. Not sure who we'd have to be trading away. Volpatti, I guess? But that's not a contract you have to move before signing someone else, you just bury it in the minors if he doesn't make the top 13/14 forwards, or leave him in the press box. :dunno:

I'm down with that. Personally I thought Laviolette would be the better fit but we'll see. Trotz does seem to get real defensive when people label him a strictly defensive coach.

With the news of Biz I'm thinking it is not us but rather Pitt that he's going to. Just a hunch. Oh well.
 

ChibiPooky

Yay hockey!
May 25, 2011
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There were pictures of Bissonnette's car at a Whole Foods in the area (or some other dude with the license plate "BizNasty"). If dude is buying groceries here...
 

Maryland17

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Jan 7, 2008
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If its us...what could it be...I'm also hoping we're not paying much north of a million a year for him...

From early article from Prewitt, the options for Biz were Wild, Pitt, WSH.

Per NHLSCAP.COM

Pitt has $950,000 in cap space
Wild has $3+
Caps has $1.1

I would guess he is going to Pitt.
 

Halpysback*

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Some would say there wasn't a proven 2C last year either. Matty Perreault's PPG numbers were pretty similar for Christ's sake. (.60 to .62 for Grabo)

How sad is the state of the NHL game that a player only has to score 40pts to be in the top 60 scoring centers?

Some people would be flat out wrong then.

Grabo was absolutely a proven 2nd line center. First of all, .62PPG prorates to 50 points which is absolutely 2C production. Is Plekanec a 2C? He had a substantially lower PPG than Grabo on a better team but he also played tough ass minutes. I'm guessing if we got Plekanec somehow you'd accept him as a 2C without a second thought. Grabo was our best C (arguably best player) at even strength, which is where the concept of a 2C matters. Perreault got very favorable minutes and matchups on a team with arguably the most inflated regular season offense in the league. If you have any doubts about how last year's caps compare to last year's Ducks see Penner on the Caps vs Penner on the Ducks. Grabo got his PPG getting tough minutes on a mismanaged team that was historically bad at even strength. Grabo also had pretty much no PP time/production, which is another 10 points right there. Yes, he was injured, but he's not an injury prone player to the point where he can be penciled in injured all the time.

I'm willing to bet Grabo and Kulemin will be two of the top 5 offseason signings. Maybe not on pure value but on net impact on their team. Just solid all around players that can be counted to tilt the ice and produce respectably in tough matchups.
 

BobRouse

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Mar 18, 2009
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Grabovski is a good player. But he is still not an ideal #2C in terms of how he plays. He plays like a winger who needs to carry the puck alot. His production is about to slow down given his age and the way he relies on his quickness and phsycial abilities. Again I do not believe this is the type of center that is ideal. He plays like Olli Jokinen but with more pace and slightly less scoring touch.

Kulemin scored 30 goals 4 years ago. In 188 games since he has 23 goals. Thats not even 3rd line production.

They will help the Isles forward depth but they aren't going to be among the best signings. Between them they have played 846 regular season games...and 14 playoff games. At some point it will stop being the situations they are put in. Funny but Jokinen played in nearly 1200 NHL regular season games...and 6 playoff games.

I'll be curious to see how they do. I suspect these kinds of players are 2nd liners on non-playoff teams.
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
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Some people would be flat out wrong then.

Grabo was absolutely a proven 2nd line center. First of all, .62PPG prorates to 50 points which is absolutely 2C production. Is Plekanec a 2C? He had a substantially lower PPG than Grabo on a better team but he also played tough ass minutes. I'm guessing if we got Plekanec somehow you'd accept him as a 2C without a second thought. Grabo was our best C (arguably best player) at even strength, which is where the concept of a 2C matters. Perreault got very favorable minutes and matchups on a team with arguably the most inflated regular season offense in the league. If you have any doubts about how last year's caps compare to last year's Ducks see Penner on the Caps vs Penner on the Ducks. Grabo got his PPG getting tough minutes on a mismanaged team that was historically bad at even strength. Grabo also had pretty much no PP time/production, which is another 10 points right there. Yes, he was injured, but he's not an injury prone player to the point where he can be penciled in injured all the time.

I'm willing to bet Grabo and Kulemin will be two of the top 5 offseason signings. Maybe not on pure value but on net impact on their team. Just solid all around players that can be counted to tilt the ice and produce respectably in tough matchups.

In today's NHL, he's barely there as a legit 2C. That said, he's not a 2C on a deep running playoff team IMO. I for one am more than happy the Caps passed on those two contracts. It's not like 20 teams in the NHL were knocking down the door to sign these guys. Look where they ended up...that speaks volumes.

IMO, the short sighted view is that they would have been better additions than nothing sure, longterm IMO, they're not the solution the Caps need.
 
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Halpysback*

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Grabo's playstyle is pretty different from Olli Jokinen, but generally you want a more selfish guy as your 2C, for multiple reasons. A super unselfish center is more heavily reliant on his wingers being good scorers... and not many teams have those on the 2nd line. So you have one of their major talents being largely wasted on elevating tweeners. Grabo works well with guys who may not have all-world finishing ability but who can work the boards well and defer to him - this is much easier to find in typical 2nd line wingers like Glencross, Umberger, Kulemin, etc. A side benefit of that setup is that you also get an effective two-way/shutdown line because those guys tend to play aggressive close contact disruptive hockey. There is yet another benefit - a go-to C is also automatically more involved in the play physically (either through throwing around his bodyweight or positioning-stickchecking). Playmakers need space so they can make fancy plays and as a result need more separation. That's why so many of them seem like they float so much. Here are some "me first" style centers to various extents - Jeff Carter, Ryan Kesler, Jordan Staal, David Legwand, David Backes, Mike Fisher, Brandon Dubinsky. Also Plekanec, Bergeron and Seguin to a smaller extent. Note any similarities (minus Seguin)?

At any rate Grabo was able to be a very effective even strength player with secondary guys accompanying him.
 
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Halpysback*

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In today's NHL, he's barely there as a legit 2C. That said, he's not a 2C on a deep running playoff team IMO. I for one am more than happy the Caps passed on those two contracts. It's not like 20 teams in the NHL were knocking down the door to sign these guys. Look where they ended up...that speaks volumes.

IMO, the short sighted view is that they would have been better additions than nothing sure, longterm IMO, they're not the solution the Caps need.

Yeah, but then you also had Seidenberg end up with Florida a few years ago, and Mitchell get passed over by us and signed by the Kings. And it's not like those contracts are immovable in today's NHL, especially given the explosion in offense Kulemin is gonna have now that he's from out under Carlyle's thumb.

Grabo is a better 2C than both Blackhawks and Rangers had last playoffs. End of the day when he's on he plays in a way that tilts the ice at even strength for your team. That is extremely valuable and all successful teams have that in spades.

A big part of getting a good 2C is getting players that mesh with them, and the fact that valuable Grabo-meshing players are easier to come by makes for additional value.
 

Ajax1995

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Dec 9, 2002
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In today's NHL, he's barely there as a legit 2C. That said, he's not a 2C on a deep running playoff team IMO. I for one am more than happy the Caps passed on those two contracts. It's not like 20 teams in the NHL were knocking down the door to sign these guys. Look where they ended up...that speaks volumes.

IMO, the short sighted view is that they would have been better additions than nothing sure, longterm IMO, they're not the solution the Caps need.

The idea of playing Grabovski and Kulimen a combined $9.1875 mil per for the next 4 seasons is absurd IMO.
 

Ajax1995

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Dec 9, 2002
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Yeah, it's not $10M to the Brooks Brothers absurd, but it's not good.

Laich was signed a while ago so IMO not really applicable. But I'll take 5 years of Orpik at $5.5 over 4 years of those 2 for $9.1875 easily.
 

AlexBrovechkin8

At least there was 2018.
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Feb 18, 2012
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Oates sucked last year, but ditching him for Trotz is not some magic bullet. A lot of people are overstating how much Oates sucked (this time last off-season, he was widley praised as the Ovechkin-whisperer), and we still have no idea how well Trotz will mesh with this group or really how much a coaching change in general will mean to this team that has burned through coaches left and right.

Nope, they're not. He was awful. Terrible possession team, no forecheck, no semblance of a breakout, terrible PK, "I know defense so I know goalies," and on and on and on.

He did one thing right -- the PP -- and that worked because he had a turret on the left circle. The rest was atrocious.
 

Halpysback*

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Laich was signed a while ago so IMO not really applicable. But I'll take 5 years of Orpik at $5.5 over 4 years of those 2 for $9.1875 easily.

Yeah if you want to tank instead of winning games it's a no brainer.
 

Roughing

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Oct 11, 2010
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Laich was signed a while ago so IMO not really applicable. But I'll take 5 years of Orpik at $5.5 over 4 years of those 2 for $9.1875 easily.

Were it me, and it's not, I buy out Laich and don't sign Orpik, so I see it as spending $10M on them this year and potentially several more seasons. That said, I'd rather have the other two at just over $9M.
 

Halpysback*

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You're the guy who thinks Erskine is better than Orpik right...?

I'm the guy who realizes that Orpik is a #5 and Niskanen is a #4/middling #3. There's a reason the fans of a defensively shakey Penguins squad unanimously don't mind letting them go.

Willie Mitchell brings more than Orpik at this point and he went for a cheaper 2 year deal.
 
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