Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXVI

[Hivemind]

Six games. Wow. With Erat being dicked around all season more than any player this side of Orlov, too. Erat's style fits 19-8 pretty well from what I see and he's a winger, while MoJo is a center. Just play them that way for six weeks and see what we get.

Six games. Not a single goal while the line was on the ice together. So what if Erat was getting dicked around, he didn't do anything to help the first line. In fact, it lit the lamp less. Find me a six game stretch in which the Johansson-Backstrom-Ovechkin line combined for no goals together. That top line needs to produce, and it didn't do it with Erat.

It's one thing to say that maybe we should try Erat there again. It's completely another to claim he's the guaranteed answer, and then shove your fingers in your ears to all the previous data to the contrary of your opinion doesn't exist. But that wouldn't be convenient to using Johansson as a scape goat.

 

[MrGone]

DarrenDreger: Phaneuf and TOR close on 7 x $7 mil extension.

Phaneuf > Alzner + Carlson? Ok then.

The real question is Phaneuf only worth a 1mill more then Mike Green?

 

[RandyHolt]

Erat has scored 0 goals playing with everyone. And has been used at his natural position 0 times. Was Ovi a dominant force 5 on 5 when he played LW?

I always say you build lines from the top down. I call bunk that Oates cannot build a respectable ES top line.

I think it may start with separating Ovi and Nick. The problem is bigger than Martin Erat.

In Oates line building is the directive to develop MJ as a winger. So while he may be handcuffed there, there is nothing stopping him from trying new lines.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

The two most productive 5v5 offensive players on the team are Grabovski and Chimera. Oates broke them up. Where was your outrage?

Again 5v5 Backstrom and Ovechkin are no more productive than Chimera, Ward, and Fehr even though the two big guns have played a good amount more. You're ok with that? Are you concerned breaking them up will turn them into Volpatti and Wilson or something?

If the Caps are going to be a better 5v5 team their big guns up front need to lead they way IMO. They have had almost 40 games together so far this season and have not come close to doing that. Given what we have seen so far this season is it really unfathomable that the team might be better with them playing on different lines?

I'm not OK with them sucking at 5 on 5, but I'm OK with two players who are having a great year and have historically shown they're great together, staying together.

The roster needs more/better/different talent. Breaking up those two isn't the tinkering that wins a Cup IMO (that's just more McPhee-type BS moves), but I understand the armchair coaches/GM's like you who keep reaching and why you guys want to keep trying line changes to make this team better (frustration). Rotate the players in any order you want....the roster is still flawed at the end of the day and that's on one man.

 

[Halpysback*]

I'm not OK with them sucking at 5 on 5, but I'm OK with two players who are having a great year and have historically shown they're great together, staying together.

So they suck (badly) together but they should nevertheless stay together. Makes sense.

 

[Halpysback*]

I don't miss the simple point, bud. you are essentially saying these two need to be 1 and 2 in the league in scoring and by a margin.

I see a big picture. I see a team that has won 6 of 10 and points out of 8 of 10. 2nd in division. 4th in conference and improving. I see good things. you and the majority of others see that they suck.

being 58th is 2nd line scoring. you think maybe that ov and backstrom should have have their minutes cut at even strength?

if second line plays fewer minutes at es than 1st line, which of 8 or 19 would you reduce their minutes 3rd in scoring or 1st in goals?

its simple as this. I am not inclined to hate on them. I am further not invested in wanting people fired. If they lose, they lose and if they win, they win. I see very little praise for a game well played and lost. I see almost no support for the wins.

Did McPhee spike the punch so hard that people no longer understand the difference between "even strength" and "power play"?

If you see Ovechkin and Backstrom producing like middle of the road 2nd liners at even strength (and getting killed defensively) as a good thing and not something that should be addressed... well... good for you I guess. Apparently some people really will take anything they can get.

 

[MiKE5889]

You realize that the likes of Perry and Getzlaf face the exact same top defensive pairings and checking lines as Ovechkin and Backstrom have to deal with yet they have each managed to put up more points 5v5 than Ovechkin and Backstrom have combined?

That's right those two both have 30 5v5 points while Backstrom has 15 and Ovechkin 14. And their secondary scoring support is no better than the Caps'.

I'm not saying Ovechkin and Backstrom have to be the best in the league 5v5 but they can't be in the 80-100 range either.

The Caps are a very poor 5v5 team and IMO it starts with the lack of production from their stars up front in that situation. And their success on the PP doesn't change that for me in any way.

The Caps are a poor team 5v5, of that there's no doubt Millhaus, and I apologize if I made it look like that in my post.

What I don't like though is to highlight the 5v5 statistics of just a few players, rather than the statistics for the entire team. Our teams main issue is dynamics. There's none! In terms of players with a shoot first mentality we've got Ovy and that's it!

I believe that a second line shoot first player is the solution. However I wouldn't at this point in time try and trade for one, as Kuznetsov might very well be that guy. Time will tell I guess. Regardless, I would much rather try and solve our issues on defense, rather than worrying about Ovy's and Backy's 5v5 production. That is not to say that this issue shouldn't be addressed, should it last throughout a full season.

 

[txpd]

Did McPhee spike the punch so hard that people no longer understand the difference between "even strength" and "power play"?

If you see Ovechkin and Backstrom producing like middle of the road 2nd liners at even strength (and getting killed defensively) as a good thing and not something that should be addressed... well... good for you I guess. Apparently some people really will take anything they can get.

I understand the difference. I think you guys have latched onto something to add to the hate. You are making more of it than you should because it backs up your constant negative pov.

1. where did I say it was a good thing?
2. are you saying you would skate them as pp specialists and otherwise reduce their minutes?

my view is that overall...all things added together...these two are among the handful of best players available. if you want to skate them like huntsie did, its not going to make them happy which is not going to help much. let it play out.

ovechkin and backstrom at even strength is nutshell vs of the team in general. they suck but they still win. ovechkin is on his best scoring season of his career and backstrom is ranked highest in scoring this deep in the season of his career. yet it seems the dominant thing to talk about here is complaining about them.

 

[txpd]

So they suck (badly) together but they should nevertheless stay together. Makes sense.

if they suck so bad, why don't we talk more about ditching them for better and more well rounded players? they have both proven to be chokers. lets get rid of them and get something to start a good rebuild?

we all know they cant win anything with a big pp in the playoffs. so, they really don't have that much value. lets move them.

 

[Ridley Simon]

if they suck so bad, why don't we talk more about ditching them for better and more well rounded players? they have both proven to be chokers. lets get rid of them and get something to start a good rebuild?

we all know they cant win anything with a big pp in the playoffs. so, they really don't have that much value. lets move them.

Stop being a contrarian. Trying them with different linemates is a smart, simple, solution.

If we are talking about shipping players out, get rid of the 11.5m sunk into Erat, Laich, and Neuvirth. Addition by subtraction.

But before we ship out a guy that hasn't scored in half a season (Erat), how about we try him with our best set up man (Backstrom). I know, crazy talk.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I'm not OK with them sucking at 5 on 5, but I'm OK with two players who are having a great year and have historically shown they're great together, staying together.

The roster needs more/better/different talent. Breaking up those two isn't the tinkering that wins a Cup IMO (that's just more McPhee-type BS moves), but I understand the armchair coaches/GM's like you who keep reaching and why you guys want to keep trying line changes to make this team better (frustration). Rotate the players in any order you want....the roster is still flawed at the end of the day and that's on one man.

Who has a lifetime contract thanks to all the championships the team has won.

Yay team.

 

[Vladiator16*]

if they suck so bad, why don't we talk more about ditching them for better and more well rounded players? they have both proven to be chokers. lets get rid of them and get something to start a good rebuild?

we all know they cant win anything with a big pp in the playoffs. so, they really don't have that much value. lets move them.

So there is no middle with you, its play them together forever regardless of what's been shown or trade them! Granted, i don't know if they should be separated or just infused with a different line mate, but i think its strange that you don't want to (or can't) even consider something different...

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

I understand the difference. I think you guys have latched onto something to add to the hate. You are making more of it than you should because it backs up your constant negative pov.

1. where did I say it was a good thing?
2. are you saying you would skate them as pp specialists and otherwise reduce their minutes?

my view is that overall...all things added together...these two are among the handful of best players available. if you want to skate them like huntsie did, its not going to make them happy which is not going to help much. let it play out.

ovechkin and backstrom at even strength is nutshell vs of the team in general. they suck but they still win. ovechkin is on his best scoring season of his career and backstrom is ranked highest in scoring this deep in the season of his career. yet it seems the dominant thing to talk about here is complaining about them.

You're the only one is saying bench them and make them pp specialists. For **** sake. Just shuffle the deck to see what sticks because we're halfway in and what we've seen so far will likely continue absent a change.

We have the personnel to change things without resorting to Ovechkin -Beagle.

Is it that difficult to understand?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

So they suck (badly) together but they should nevertheless stay together. Makes sense.

When they dominate the rest of the time and are producing at an elite level, yes I'm ok with keeping them together. The answer IMO is not to keep juggling lines in failure but to instead get them the right winger to replace Mojo.

But by all means keep doing the line shuffle garbage. That's worked for the Caps so well in the past as shown by all the Cups.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

When they dominate the rest of the time and are producing at an elite level, yes I'm ok with keeping them together.

Yes. If you ignore even strength it makes sense to keep them together. But that's not what anyone is talking about.

 

[KevinM]

When they dominate the rest of the time and are producing at an elite level, yes I'm ok with keeping them together. The answer IMO is not to keep juggling lines in failure but to instead get them the right winger to replace Mojo.

But by all means keep doing the line shuffle garbage. That's worked for the Caps so well in the past as shown by all the Cups.

I don't see why it would really be that big of a deal. A lot of good and successful coaches shuffle lines frequently, Babcock for example. If splitting up Ovi and Backstrom at ES for several shifts to a couple games improves the team's 5 on 5 play great, if not, throw em back together and nothing is lost. I don't think we're going to see a move to bring in a top line LW to complement the two any time soon.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yes. If you ignore even strength it makes sense to keep them together. But that's not what anyone is talking about.

How does continued line juggling make more sense? It's been tried in the past many times. I understand you guys are grasping at straws but come on, fix the roster or it's just continued BS tinkering like we've seen for years.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

How does continued line juggling make more sense? It's been tried in the past many times. I understand you guys are grasping at straws but come on, fix the roster or it's just continued BS tinkering like we've seen for years.

Ovechkin has 1 even strength assist. It almost literally couldn't be worse.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I don't see why it would really be that big of a deal. A lot of good and successful coaches shuffle lines frequently, Babcock for example. If splitting up Ovi and Backstrom at ES for several shifts to a couple games improves the team's 5 on 5 play great, if not, throw em back together and nothing is lost. I don't think we're going to see a move to bring in a top line LW to complement the two any time soon.

I don't think it's a big deal at all. Try it, I could give a damn. I just feel it's another exercise in futility that a handful of posters have latched onto. IMO it's been tried in the past with limited success. Why keep trying the same old tweaks instead of a longer term solution like acquiring the right complementary players?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Ovechkin has 1 even strength assist. It almost literally couldn't be worse.

You could split them up and nobody produces and they go on a 10 game losing streak. That seems worse.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

You could split them up and nobody produces and they go on a 10 game losing streak. That seems worse.

Seems realistic.

 

[trick9]

Seems realistic.

See: last season.

Capitals didn't exactly do very well before Ovechkin and Backstrom were put together again.

 

[Ajax1995]

The roster needs more/better/different talent. Breaking up those two isn't the tinkering that wins a Cup IMO (that's just more McPhee-type BS moves), but I understand the armchair coaches/GM's like you who keep reaching and why you guys want to keep trying line changes to make this team better (frustration). Rotate the players in any order you want....the roster is still flawed at the end of the day and that's on one man.

So don't bother trying to make the current team better 5v5 because in your opinion they aren't good enough as a whole anyway? I'm sorry but that is absurd reasoning.

Ovechkin and Backstrom are not anywhere remotely close to as effective 5v5 as they should be. If you think they are more likely to simply play their way out of it together then fine but I disagree.

I find it interesting that you have issues with my overall low expectations for the team in general and thus being fine with where they currently are standings wise yet you clearly have very low expectations for Ovechkin, Backstrom, and the team 5v5. How can you expect them to be a good team overall if they are so poor 5v5?

 

[KevinM]

I don't think it's a big deal at all. Try it, I could give a damn. I just feel it's another exercise in futility that a handful of posters have latched onto. IMO it's been tried in the past with limited success. Why keep trying the same old tweaks instead of a longer term solution like acquiring the right complementary players?

It may be an exercise in futility, we wouldn't really know unless it was tried. If there's anything the coaching staff can do to potentially get more out of the current roster it should be attempted IMO.

I also think given his history of bringing in "complementary" players capped off with the Erat debacle understandably leaves us with little faith that GMGM has the foresight to know who a good complementary player would be to put on the top line or the ability to acquire him without significantly impacting our current roster.

It seems like the organization is complacent and happy with the team's current makeup and level of play anyway so I'm not expecting anything to change. They're winning right now so I'm glad for that.

 

[Ajax1995]

Ovechkin has 1 even strength assist. It almost literally couldn't be worse.

And Backstrom has 3 primary 5v5 assists all season so it isn't like the 5v5 goals Ovechkin is scoring are coming off great setups from Backstrom for the most part.

It would seem those two are not feeding off each other 5v5 at all so really what is the risk?

But hey McPhee has been around for 15 years so there is no point in trying to improve the actual play of the current iteration of the team...