Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXVI

[Devil Dancer]

I don't understand why Grabo hasn't been tried with Ovie yet. Isn't there a happy middle ground between Oates' refusal to mix up lines and BB's constant switching?

I'm with Randy, hockey shouldn't be rocket science.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

As I posted previously, Moulson isn't useless at even strength, at all. Before last season, he'd had three straight seasons with 22 ES goals.

Now, I think he's far from perfect, but saying he's useless at even strength is beyond ignorant.

 

[Ajax1995]

I don't understand why Grabo hasn't been tried with Ovie yet.

I think it is likely Oates the coach sees Ovechkin/Backstrom as the second coming of Hull/Oates and he knows Oates the player would never have wanted them split up.

It drives me nuts also though, especially since Backstrom and Fehr have seemed to have had some chemistry when they do play together.

 

[txpd]

I don't understand why people say they don't understand why any center other than nicklas backstrom has been tried with ovechkin. backstrom is tied for 3rd in the league in scoring and ovechkin is enjoying possibly his best season as a goal scorer.

meanwhile grabovski leads the team in even strength points. chimera and ward, playing with him often, have real chemistry and are producing secondary scoring. something that some say doesn't exist on this team.

in the past boudreau would break up ovechkin and backstrom as punishment. I see many reasons why oates would not change those things.

 

[OVs Gold Chain*]

Moving #19 off line 1 now would just be trying to fix something that isn't broken. Grabo seems to be thriving on a line that grinds the boards and hunts for that greasy goal around the crease anyway.

 

[SkinsFan09]

Moving #19 off line 1 now would just be trying to fix something that isn't broken. Grabo seems to be thriving on a line that grinds the boards and hunts for that greasy goal around the crease anyway.

One of Backstrom or Mojo needs to be taken off that line. It does nothing at even strength unless Ovechkin scores off the faceoff.

 

[SkinsFan09]

I don't understand why people say they don't understand why any center other than nicklas backstrom has been tried with ovechkin. backstrom is tied for 3rd in the league in scoring and ovechkin is enjoying possibly his best season as a goal scorer.

meanwhile grabovski leads the team in even strength points. chimera and ward, playing with him often, have real chemistry and are producing secondary scoring. something that some say doesn't exist on this team.

in the past boudreau would break up ovechkin and backstrom as punishment. I see many reasons why oates would not change those things.

Backstrom's dominance is because of the powerplay and Ovechkin's ES goals aren't coming from Backstrom unless he wins a faceoff and scores right off it. This isn't the same as even last season.

There's no reason not to give something else a try to jolt the top line when the team isn't even that good. It's not like we're firing on all cylinders.

 

[Roughing]

The only thing that should happen to Nick/OV is permanently adding Erat.

 

[Ajax1995]

Moving #19 off line 1 now would just be trying to fix something that isn't broken.

I guess that depends on what you consider broken. Ovechkin and Backstrom do not really drive possession 5v5 and they aren't particularly productive that way either.

Chimera, Ward, and Fehr are just as productive as Ovechkin and Backstrom and IMO given the stature and ice time of players in question there that should not be the case.

Backstom for example has 5 goals and 10 assists 5v5 this year with only 3 of those assists being primaries. A similar player in style and stature Thornton has 23 5v5 points in the same amount of games with 15 of those being primary assists.

Backstrom and Ovechkin could and should be better and more productive 5v5 players and I don't think there is much if any risk in breaking them up at even strength because the Caps as a whole are not a very good 5v5 team.

So yes IMO the Caps' in general and Ovechkin's and Backstrom's in particular 5v5 play is broken and thus something should be done to try to fix it.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Caps 5 on 5 play is broken so to fix it lets break up our best offensive duo. Derp.

 

[Hivemind]

The only thing that should happen to Nick/OV is permanently adding Erat.

Because that line worked oh so well when we tried it the first time, right? A whopping zero goals in six games.

 

[txpd]

actually, the part that is funny to read is the part where the league's leading goal scorer and the 3rd leading points scorer both need a jolt.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

actually, the part that is funny to read is the part where the league's leading goal scorer and the 3rd leading points scorer both need a jolt.

Ovechkin and Backstrom are 58th and 59th in the league at even strength scoring and both are capable of being top ten.

The only funny part is how aggressively you miss the simple point.

 

[MW6]

I would like to see Oates "sacrificing" "the 1st line". A line with Ovie will probably never be very good at a posession game. Johansson isn't very good at it and Laich has never been known to carry a line either. With the line up as asemebled as it currently is with not give it a try. This would probably give line 2 and 3 better chances of scoring! Give the 1st line beneficial o-zone starts and maybe have Laich take the faceoffs. Could work?

Laich-Johansson-Ovechkin (a horrible posession line but would probably not score less then the present 1st line, and would still draw the top pairing of other teams).

Erat-Backstrom-Fehr (showed chemistry in the absence of Ovie, should be good at forechecking and a posession game).

Chimera-Grabovski-Ward (has obviously worked really well before, gives the Caps secondary scoring).

Brouwer-Latta-Wilson (Brouwer is still to invisible to earn that many min/g, would make a really hard hitting line).


I also think that both of Brouwer and Erat eventually should be traded for a 3C and a 2LW/2LD/3RD with upside.

 

[g00n]

MJ90 is a momentum-killing turnover machine and contributes next to nothing on that top line. THAT is your problem, not Ovechkin and Backstrom being together.

 

[Roughing]

Because that line worked oh so well when we tried it the first time, right? A whopping zero goals in six games.

Six games. Wow. With Erat being dicked around all season more than any player this side of Orlov, too. Erat's style fits 19-8 pretty well from what I see and he's a winger, while MoJo is a center. Just play them that way for six weeks and see what we get.

 

[Chokingdogs]

Ovechkin and Backstrom are 58th and 59th in the league at even strength scoring and both are capable of being top ten.

The only funny part is how aggressively you miss the simple point.

i'm shocked ovechkin is ahead, even by one, of backstrom.

ovechkin is on pace for 68 total goals this season, which would be the highest since i dont know when....however, he's also on pace for about 2.1349835 even strength assists, which would be the lowest since, hmmmmm, the dawn of the nhl? those two, polar opposite stats, are nothing short of mind boggling.

 

[Ajax1995]

Caps 5 on 5 play is broken so to fix it lets break up our best offensive duo. Derp.

The two most productive 5v5 offensive players on the team are Grabovski and Chimera. Oates broke them up. Where was your outrage?

Again 5v5 Backstrom and Ovechkin are no more productive than Chimera, Ward, and Fehr even though the two big guns have played a good amount more. You're ok with that? Are you concerned breaking them up will turn them into Volpatti and Wilson or something?

If the Caps are going to be a better 5v5 team their big guns up front need to lead they way IMO. They have had almost 40 games together so far this season and have not come close to doing that. Given what we have seen so far this season is it really unfathomable that the team might be better with them playing on different lines?

 

[Ajax1995]

i'm shocked ovechkin is ahead, even by one, of backstrom.

ovechkin is on pace for 68 total goals this season, which would be the highest since i dont know when....however, he's also on pace for about 2.1349835 even strength assists, which would be the lowest since, hmmmmm, the dawn of the nhl? those two, polar opposite stats, are nothing short of mind boggling.

And you have to remember that 5 of Ovechkin's 18 even strength goals have come into either an empty net, 1, with his own goaltender pulled, 3, or 4v4, 1, so it isn't like we are talking 5v5 production there.

Points wise 5v5 Backstrom is tied for 83rd in the league and Ovechkin tied for 97th in the league.

 

[txpd]

Ovechkin and Backstrom are 58th and 59th in the league at even strength scoring and both are capable of being top ten.

The only funny part is how aggressively you miss the simple point.

I don't miss the simple point, bud. you are essentially saying these two need to be 1 and 2 in the league in scoring and by a margin.

I see a big picture. I see a team that has won 6 of 10 and points out of 8 of 10. 2nd in division. 4th in conference and improving. I see good things. you and the majority of others see that they suck.

being 58th is 2nd line scoring. you think maybe that ov and backstrom should have have their minutes cut at even strength?

if second line plays fewer minutes at es than 1st line, which of 8 or 19 would you reduce their minutes 3rd in scoring or 1st in goals?

its simple as this. I am not inclined to hate on them. I am further not invested in wanting people fired. If they lose, they lose and if they win, they win. I see very little praise for a game well played and lost. I see almost no support for the wins.

 

[txpd]

The two most productive 5v5 offensive players on the team are Grabovski and Chimera. Oates broke them up. Where was your outrage?

Again 5v5 Backstrom and Ovechkin are no more productive than Chimera, Ward, and Fehr even though the two big guns have played a good amount more. You're ok with that? Are you concerned breaking them up will turn them into Volpatti and Wilson or something?

If the Caps are going to be a better 5v5 team their big guns up front need to lead they way IMO. They have had almost 40 games together so far this season and have not come close to doing that. Given what we have seen so far this season is it really unfathomable that the team might be better with them playing on different lines?

umfathomable? of course not. they have been separated almost every playoffs since their first playoffs. the difference then was that semin was there for backstrom to pass to. lets be honest, there is no finisher remotely close to what semin could bring on this team. if the Russian kid is really coming over after the Olympics then there is a viable avenue there.

the question wasn't why would you do it, but why haven't they? why they haven't is that these players have a history of excellence together and overall they are among the league leaders.

all I know is that with this forum the first option is always that someone is screwing up. oates is a dope. McPhee is a dope. McPhee is a dope for hiring Oates. Leonsis is a dope for putting up with it.

its tiresome, particularly when they are not losing. in fact are winning. they are currently ahead of Detroit in the conference standings. Maybe I should read the wings boards and see if they are painted with the suckatube brush as broadly and consistently as the capitals are by their own fans. maybe the caps really are a lottery team riding a power play and some inexperienced goalies on a bridge to nowhere.

 

[Ajax1995]

I see a big picture. I see a team that has won 6 of 10 and points out of 8 of 10. 2nd in division. 4th in conference and improving. I see good things.

So bottom line you are fine with the Backstrom's and Ovechkin's 5v5 play and production and the Caps' 5v5 play overall?

 

[MiKE5889]

I wouldn't read too much into these 5 on 5 statistics, as they can be very misleading.

Just take the recent Rangers game for reference. Vigenault would constantly match up his MacDonagh and Girardi pairing against our first line. While Backy got himself a pair of points, it was obvious already after the first period that this philosophy as a whole works very well against us.

Still this philosophy comes at a price, in the fact that your second line gets a lot more playing time against a lower level of defensive competition. Simple logic right? Pretty much explains why Grabo has experienced quite some decent point production 5 on 5.

Basically by shutting down our first line, the opponent opens up the flood gates wide open for our second line. This is in my opinion the real problem this team has. We simply aren't good enough in taking advantage of the quality chances given to the second line.

All our secondary scoring guys (Grabo, Fehr, Erat, Ward, Chimera, Brouwer, Laich), are either puck carriers or board players. Non of them are players with a shoot first mentality, though Fehr do have his moments now and then. All of these players still gets more quality chances though, as they will be getting minutes against a lower level of defensive competition.

What this team IMO truly needs is a second line player with a shoot first mentality, so that teams who decide to constantly lock down Ovy and Backy on the first line, are forced to do so at the cost of goals coming from our second line.

IMO, secondary scoring is the real issue, not the 5 on 5 production of our first line.

 

[Chokingdogs]

I don't miss the simple point, bud. you are essentially saying these two need to be 1 and 2 in the league in scoring and by a margin.

I see a big picture. I see a team that has won 6 of 10 and points out of 8 of 10. 2nd in division. 4th in conference and improving. I see good things. you and the majority of others see that they suck.

being 58th is 2nd line scoring. you think maybe that ov and backstrom should have have their minutes cut at even strength?

if second line plays fewer minutes at es than 1st line, which of 8 or 19 would you reduce their minutes 3rd in scoring or 1st in goals?

its simple as this. I am not inclined to hate on them. I am further not invested in wanting people fired. If they lose, they lose and if they win, they win. I see very little praise for a game well played and lost. I see almost no support for the wins.

ohhhh....stop being so obtuse, samuel.

the big picture is this - ov and 19, on the PP, surface of the sun hot in terms of production.

even strength? i'd say that heat would register about the same as halfway down luray caverns.

both of their standing, in terms of overall points, as well as the teams standing WRT division, conference, etc., is overwhelmingly tied to the teams PP proficiency.

we all saw how this team, with a great regular season PP, does with that come the postseason....

 

[Ajax1995]

I wouldn't read too much into these 5 on 5 statistics, as they can be very misleading.

Just take the recent Rangers game for reference. Vigenault would constantly match up his MacDonagh and Girardi pairing against our first line. While Backy got himself a pair of points, it was obvious already after the first period that this philosophy as a whole works very well against us.

Blah blah blah...

You realize that the likes of Perry and Getzlaf face the exact same top defensive pairings and checking lines as Ovechkin and Backstrom have to deal with yet they have each managed to put up more points 5v5 than Ovechkin and Backstrom have combined?

That's right those two both have 30 5v5 points while Backstrom has 15 and Ovechkin 14. And their secondary scoring support is no better than the Caps'.

I'm not saying Ovechkin and Backstrom have to be the best in the league 5v5 but they can't be in the 80-100 range either.

The Caps are a very poor 5v5 team and IMO it starts with the lack of production from their stars up front in that situation. And their success on the PP doesn't change that for me in any way.