Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIII: The Return of Michael Jordan

[AlexBrovechkin8]

If you roll all 4 lines evenly, hes not necessarily the 3C or whatever. He's just got Chimera and Ward as his line mates. AND he gets a ton of PP1 time. He's not being put on some shut down line in this scenario.

Think bigger picture here

But has Oates shown any tendency to roll all 4 lines evenly? Is he going to give the 3rd line equal minutes to the 1st line? I'd personally rather see Grabo at 1C and reunite the CLAW line for the 3rd line.

Erat-Grabo-Ovie
Majo-Backs-Brouwer
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Fehr-Latta-Wilson

 

[Calicaps]

But has Oates shown any tendency to roll all 4 lines evenly? Is he going to give the 3rd line equal minutes to the 1st line? I'd personally rather see Grabo at 1C and reunite the CLAW line for the 3rd line.

Erat-Grabo-Ovie
Majo-Backs-Brouwer
Chimera-Laich-Ward
Fehr-Latta-Wilson

Honestly, the idea of rolling 4 lines is silly. Not in the sense that you can play 4 lines for roughly the same amount of time over a game span, but that you can use them interchangeably in game situations. Different guys have different skills. Yeah, ideally every line should be able to contribute offensively and play responsibly in their own zone, and be "balanced", but you don't put Ovie with Laich and Chimmer. That wastes all three of their skill sets.

You need to put guys with complementary players and have lines that can excel at different roles and in different game situations. I like these lines you propose. I think Backs and Grabo are 1a/1b, but otherwise you've put guys where they will succeed.

I still think Fehr could have success as 2RW, being the shooter on that line. I am not convinced the Leader of Men brings a lot more than 16 for an extra $2M, but whatever.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I agree regarding the 4 lines, CCF. I also think the lines as I've posted play to everyone's strengths.

 

[brs03]

It's certainly a luxury few teams would have. Realistically you need to make an effort to control the matchups as best you can, and doing that while simultaneously keeping the minutes even is no small task, especially for an inexperienced coach.

 

[Burakovsky95*]

The major problem I see and you all see is the use of Erat/Wilson. It's absolutely unacceptable to continue to roll a line that is a combined -15 in 3 games when these two get literally 7 minutes a night. Is -20 the final cutoff lol?

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Honestly, the idea of rolling 4 lines is silly. Not in the sense that you can play 4 lines for roughly the same amount of time over a game span, but that you can use them interchangeably in game situations. Different guys have different skills. Yeah, ideally every line should be able to contribute offensively and play responsibly in their own zone, and be "balanced", but you don't put Ovie with Laich and Chimmer. That wastes all three of their skill sets.

You need to put guys with complementary players and have lines that can excel at different roles and in different game situations. I like these lines you propose. I think Backs and Grabo are 1a/1b, but otherwise you've put guys where they will succeed.

I still think Fehr could have success as 2RW, being the shooter on that line. I am not convinced the Leader of Men brings a lot more than 16 for an extra $2M, but whatever.

Like I said before the season. I'd like to see Fehr make it through a season healthy before we start pawning off the guys who HAVE performed well recently. That said, LOM needs to step his game up.

 

[Hivemind]

Meh on Gardiner. Too much like Carlson to be an ideal partner for him. Still probably better than Erskine, but not really sold on him as the answer.

 

[Jasper17]

MJ on the first line? C'mon man. He is useless.

This seems to be a common thought among Caps fans. I think MoJo is being used wrong by the Caps and has been for some time. I think he is a good player at a good value. Ultimately I think guy will score 15 goals and get around 40-50 points. That is not bad for 2 million a year.

He is just not a 1st line forward. As a 2nd line winger I think he is a quality player. He actually could be a decent fit with Grabovski as well.

I personally think MoJo is a fine player who is just being asked to do to much. More than he is really capable of.

 

[txpd]

The major problem I see and you all see is the use of Erat/Wilson. It's absolutely unacceptable to continue to roll a line that is a combined -15 in 3 games when these two get literally 7 minutes a night. Is -20 the final cutoff lol?

oates made a comment post practice about that line and its minuses. one was neuvirth falling down. one was fehr coming out of the box on a pk. a 3rd set of - was an empty net goal against.

by the way its interesting to see Boyd Gordon with 3pts in 3 games and 61% in faceoffs.

 

[SimplySensational]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&sort=powerPlayPoints&viewName=scoringLeaders

FFS, can you guys really stop with this idea Fehr deserves Brouwer's spot?

He got lucky 4 times and was left all alone in front of the net in the preseason, stop denying the norms. He's not a top 6 player.

 

[Xaroc]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&sort=powerPlayPoints&viewName=scoringLeaders

FFS, can you guys really stop with this idea Fehr deserves Brouwer's spot?

He got lucky 4 times and was left all alone in front of the net in the preseason, stop denying the norms. He's not a top 6 player.

I think the idea is more that if Fehr took that spot and got Brouwer's PP time he would probably produce 90% of what Brouwer produces and for $2m less.

 

[SimplySensational]

I think the idea is more that if Fehr took that spot and got Brouwer's PP time he would probably produce 90% of what Brouwer produces and for $2m less.

No he wouldn't.

 

[txpd]

I think there have been many posters that have thought that about Fehr at several different points in his career. The most recent time was when they thought he could replace Knuble if just given Knuble's ice time. Knuble broke his hand. Fehr got his ice. Fehr was not resigned after that playoffs.

Go look at the actual numbers. Brouwer has scored 4 years in a row what Fehr has managed to score only once and several years ago at that. Fehr got quality ice time last playoffs and was 0g 0a 0pts where just one goal might have made a big difference.

bird in the hand territory where the two in the bush have had several shots and being as good as the bird in the hand.

Fehr is 5th on the RW depth chart and is not going to get moved to 2 unless there is a lot more failure on the table and desperation has set in....or injuries.

 

[RandyHolt]

Ok if we want to knock Fehr....

Brouwer played on all 4 lines in Chicago, a cup grade team before we moved a first for him. Both RW and LW. People had us pegged for the finals.

What has he done to warrant winning the 2RW job uncontested? Power play performance aside, which he could do no matter what line he was on. What are his behind the scenes SWAG numbers.

Or, is everyone else simply clearly worse, and he is the best of the lot. I grade heavily on the playoffs, and I don't remember him doing much. I remember Fehr much more from the recent playoffs. Ward too.

Maybe he is more versatile than Fehr, and would actually excel on the 4th line should the need arise. We roll 4 lines lets say. Fehr is not a 4th liner. Fehr is not a center. He is likely a scoring RW or bust.

His preseason performance certainly supports that, our recent sample of him there in that role. He is not the same gimpy player he was pinch hitting for Knuble. A tiny sample size that was, Tex. a few games perhaps.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I think there have been many posters that have thought that about Fehr at several different points in his career. The most recent time was when they thought he could replace Knuble if just given Knuble's ice time. Knuble broke his hand. Fehr got his ice. Fehr was not resigned after that playoffs.

Go look at the actual numbers. Brouwer has scored 4 years in a row what Fehr has managed to score only once and several years ago at that. Fehr got quality ice time last playoffs and was 0g 0a 0pts where just one goal might have made a big difference.

bird in the hand territory where the two in the bush have had several shots and being as good as the bird in the hand.

Fehr is 5th on the RW depth chart and is not going to get moved to 2 unless there is a lot more failure on the table and desperation has set in....or injuries.

Fehr is not 5th on the RW depth chart. He is maybe the 5th most valued RW organizationally, but he is not behind Wilson in terms of his current ability and the coaches know that. Wilson is more valued because he has development ahead of him and can become a better and more valuable player than Fehr, who has no development left, is. Fehr was moved to center because they prioritized getting Wilson into the league and Oates has OCD issues, but that doesn't make him lower on the depth chart.

There is also no reason to think Ward is above him. Center is a harder position to play than RW, and Fehr was the one moved there. If anything that's an indication they think he's a better player than Ward. He was also moved to the second line in the playoffs when Erat got hurt (at LW), while Ward stayed on 3.

 

[txpd]

@rh: brouwer didnt produce like he should have in the playoffs. he had 1g 1a 2pts. fehr has 0g 0a 0pts. fehr hit where he wasn't known for that and played with energy. brouwer hit per his usual physical game. you didnt notice.

@Lib: call it what you will. the caps have 5 RWs. if one is the odd man out, its 16. ovechkin, ward and brouwer are ahead of fehr in play and Wilson in future value. ward is above him because ward was hired to bring his playoff game and he has both years.

if the caps move one of the 5, it will be fehr. IMO

edit: ward is 5th among forwards so far in pp toi average and 4th in average toi sh. fehr is getting a little pp time and next to nothing on the pk. I don't see the caps choosing fehr over ward

 

[Liberati0n*]

@Lib: call it what you will. the caps have 5 RWs. if one is the odd man out, its 16. ovechkin, ward and brouwer are ahead of fehr in play and Wilson in future value.

if the caps move one of the 5, it will be fehr. IMO

Call it what it is: 3C is a harder, more important position than 3RW or 4RW; Fehr got promoted, not odd-man-out-ed.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

ES TOI/G:

Brouwer - 14:09
Fehr - 12:57
Ward - 12:09
Wilson - 6:15

Conclusion: Fehr is 5th on the RW depth chart

 

[txpd]

His preseason performance certainly supports that, our recent sample of him there in that role. He is not the same gimpy player he was pinch hitting for Knuble. A tiny sample size that was, Tex. a few games perhaps.

rh...I am not suggesting that fehr at center be stopped. I am saying and have been saying that fehr at center is an attempt to find a place for fehr to play. like fleischmann at center was. if he fails, it will be hard for him to get into a healthy lineup.

btw...the reason fehr is at center and not ward is because ward has a spot in the lineup and doesn't need to play center to find a role.
example. look at erat. he either earned a shot at center or got the 4th line. now relook at fehr. he makes it at center or gets scratched til and injury opens a spot.

 

[txpd]

ES TOI/G:

Brouwer - 14:09
Fehr - 12:57
Ward - 12:09
Wilson - 6:15

Conclusion: Fehr is 5th on the RW depth chart

that's funny. it has next to nothing to do with the argument as fehr's ice time has not been at rw.

if they decide fehr cant play center, do you think they keep him for 4LW and send Wilson the junior?

oh....and...

pp toi/6
brouwer 2:41
ward 1:07
fehr 0:32

short handed toi/g
brouwer 2:41
ward 1:53
fehr 0:19

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

that's funny. it has next to nothing to do with the argument as fehr's ice time has not been at rw.

if they decide fehr cant play center, do you think they keep him for 4LW and send Wilson the junior?

oh....and...

pp toi/6
brouwer 2:41
ward 1:07
fehr 0:32

short handed toi/g
brouwer 2:41
ward 1:53
fehr 0:19

Special teams TOI is directly dependent on how a game is called. Meaning, if there's not much PP or PK time (like is typical in the palyoffs), even strength time drives the depth chart. But it doesn't fit your argument, so that's okay.

And yes, I think Wilson goes to juniors if they decide Fehr can't play center. I think it's more likely Fehr goes to 2LW, as he did in the playoffs.

It should say a lot about how the coaches feel about Fehr that they'll play him more at even strength at a non-natural position than they'll play Ward and Wilson at their natural positions.

 

[RandyHolt]

I won't hold my breath on behind the net goodies on Brouwer.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...3+5+4+6+7+8+13+14+29+30+32+33+34+45+46+63+67#

Not sure what this all means but there is one Eric Fehr. And look at that, MP.

 

[Ridley Simon]

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....&sort=powerPlayPoints&viewName=scoringLeaders

FFS, can you guys really stop with this idea Fehr deserves Brouwer's spot?

He got lucky 4 times and was left all alone in front of the net in the preseason, stop denying the norms. He's not a top 6 player.

I think the point is trading Brouwer brings back a 2LD. So NO, its not Fehr = Brouwer, in a vacuum (but you read what you want to read, as usual).

Can Fehr play in the top 6 to allow the team to be more well rounded, by getting a MUCH needed top 4 defender?

Yes, yes Fehr can.

I think thats the argument for Fehr in Brouwer's slot in the top 6.

 

[Calicaps]

I think the point is trading Brouwer brings back a 2LD. So NO, its not Fehr = Brouwer, in a vacuum (but you read what you want to read, as usual).

Can Fehr play in the top 6 to allow the team to be more well rounded, by getting a MUCH needed top 4 defender?

Yes, yes Fehr can.

I think thats the argument for Fehr in Brouwer's slot in the top 6.

This. Also, the drop off in production isn't what it seems.

Last season ES Pts/60

Fehr: 1.51
Brouwer: 1.28

The PP is the difference. Whether Fehr can make up 20's production with the man advantage is TBD. Fehr didn't even play 50 PP minutes last year so there's no good comparison.

 

[Jasper17]

Call it what it is: 3C is a harder, more important position than 3RW or 4RW; Fehr got promoted, not odd-man-out-ed.

I don't agree with this at all. I guess depending on the system you play you can make a case that the 3C is more important that a bottom 6 winger. But make no mistake about it/ Fehr got moved to center because there was no room for him at RW.

That is not a shot at Fehr. Its just the truth. If he was better than Ovechkin or Brouwer he would be playing as a top 6 rw. If he was a better all-around player than Ward he would have beaten him out for the 3rd line RW. The team then decided to play Wilson over Fehr because he is the future.

Once Wilson made the team Fehr either had to change positions or sit in the press box. With MoJo, Erat, Laich, and Chimera on the left side the only option was to move him to center.