Speculation: Acq/ Rost. Bldg./ Cap Part XXIII: The Return of Michael Jordan

[Jasper17]

I think the point is trading Brouwer brings back a 2LD. So NO, its not Fehr = Brouwer, in a vacuum (but you read what you want to read, as usual).

Can Fehr play in the top 6 to allow the team to be more well rounded, by getting a MUCH needed top 4 defender?

Yes, yes Fehr can.

I think thats the argument for Fehr in Brouwer's slot in the top 6.

This is the only solid argument I have read yet for Fehr having a larger role. I personally really like Brouwer. But no one can argue we need a top 4 defenseman so moving him for that would be ok for me.

Especially if you are really as high on Wilson as everyone seems to be. This kid is going to need a bigger role sooner or later. Brouwer's contract may not fit with this team past next year anyway.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think the point is trading Brouwer brings back a 2LD. So NO, its not Fehr = Brouwer, in a vacuum (but you read what you want to read, as usual).

Can Fehr play in the top 6 to allow the team to be more well rounded, by getting a MUCH needed top 4 defender?

Yes, yes Fehr can.

I think thats the argument for Fehr in Brouwer's slot in the top 6.

So trade Brouwer and leave a big hole on the 2nd line as soon as Fehr gets dinged and is out.

2LD isn't a problem except with the fans, just ask McPhee.

What makes you guys think Brouwer brings back a top 4 D that doesn't suck and/or isn't on a bad contract (that is IF McPhee agrees and sees the hole there after all these years)?

 

[Calicaps]

So trade Brouwer and leave a big hole on the 2nd line as soon as Fehr gets dinged and is out.

2LD isn't a problem except with the fans, just ask McPhee.

What makes you guys think Brouwer brings back a top 4 D that doesn't suck and/or isn't on a bad contract (that is IF McPhee agrees and sees the hole there after all these years)?

I think all of these suggestions about trading Brouwer - or even sending Wilson down to Plymouth - presume that Fehr's injury woes are behind him.

I agree with you that he needs to hold up a while longer yet before we can have confidence in those shoulders, but if he does stay healthy, then you have to ask the question: Given our cap situation and GLARING holes at LD, LW, and now possibly 3C, is Brouwer so much better than our other RW options that he's worth the extra $$. I'm not so sure.

 

[Ridley Simon]

So trade Brouwer and leave a big hole on the 2nd line as soon as Fehr gets dinged and is out.

2LD isn't a problem except with the fans, just ask McPhee.

What makes you guys think Brouwer brings back a top 4 D that doesn't suck and/or isn't on a bad contract (that is IF McPhee agrees and sees the hole there after all these years)?

2 things.

It not Fehr or bust. We have these forwards to populate the top 6+ slots (or the top 9)--- Ovechkin, Bacsktrom, Johnasson, Laich, Erat, Grabovski, Ward, Chimera, Wilson and Fehr. 10 guys for 9 slot, NOT including Brouwer.

Montreal fan has roundly accepted Josh Gorges for Brouwer. Not saying that could happen, but that's an example?

 

[Liberati0n*]

I don't agree with this at all. I guess depending on the system you play you can make a case that the 3C is more important that a bottom 6 winger. But make no mistake about it/ Fehr got moved to center because there was no room for him at RW.

That is not a shot at Fehr. Its just the truth. If he was better than Ovechkin or Brouwer he would be playing as a top 6 rw. If he was a better all-around player than Ward he would have beaten him out for the 3rd line RW. The team then decided to play Wilson over Fehr because he is the future.

Once Wilson made the team Fehr either had to change positions or sit in the press box. With MoJo, Erat, Laich, and Chimera on the left side the only option was to move him to center.

1) I'm not sure where you get that Ward beat him out for 3RW considering Fehr outplayed him in the preseason and was chosen over him to play on the second line with Erat injured in the playoffs last year. When was the competition that Fehr lost?

2) Why wouldn't they want the "better all-around player" playing the position with more and more diverse responsibilities? Why wasn't Ward moved to center if he's the better all-around player?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

I think all of these suggestions about trading Brouwer - or even sending Wilson down to Plymouth - presume that Fehr's injury woes are behind him.

I agree with you that he needs to hold up a while longer yet before we can have confidence in those shoulders, but if he does stay healthy, then you have to ask the question: Given our cap situation and GLARING holes at LD, LW, and now possibly 3C, is Brouwer so much better than our other RW options that he's worth the extra $$. I'm not so sure.

Why not let Ward or Wilson play 2RW?

 

[Hivemind]

Ward is ahead of Fehr on my mental depth chart, and I think he may well be on Oates' as well. It's Ward who's manning the slot on the second powerplay unit (both this year and last), not Fehr. They're seeing roughly equivalent even strength time both this year and last, but Ward sees significantly more special teams time on both squads. It was Ward who got the call to play with Ribeiro when Brouwer wasn't ready to go at the beginning of last season. And Oates openly said that he wouldn't make players lose their jobs because of a couple weeks of pre-season play.

Oates has shown desire to get Fehr more icetime, but not at the expense of Ward. I think he likes Ward's play at right wing more than Fehr's, but he's willing to try Fehr at center and left wing to keep him on the ice. I do think he sees the chemistry of the Chimera-X-Ward combination, and wants to keep Chimmer and Wardo together, though. So at some point, that may become the "4th line" while Fehr plays on a higher line.

Also worth noting, among players qualified as right wings by NHL.com, Ward was tied for 46th in points and 48th in goals last year. That's 2RW territory.

Montreal fan has roundly accepted Josh Gorges for Brouwer. Not saying that could happen, but that's an example?

Meh. They were pretty lukewarm about it. Some said they would do it once Emelin returned, but most wanted to stay the course with Gorges.

 

[Calicaps]

Why not let Ward or Wilson play 2RW?

Because neither of them (yet) has demonstrated the same reliable offensive production - and because Wilson's played a grand total of 3 regular season NHL games. Maybe he takes it over, maybe even quickly, but not yet.

 

[RandyHolt]

Erat can play 2RW and everyone knows it, especially George.

The only talk about trading Brouwer is because we have too many RWs, we have a hole at 2LD, and I contend his value is high now. Sure Fehr may not be able to fully reproduce his PP numbers, but he may exceed them at ES. I do not feel Brouwer is the reason why our PP is number 1. It will likely fail in the playoffs anyways. I would rather build an ES team.

Sometimes, a GM just has to take a little risk.

Reasons to keep Brouwer are many of course. But only by dealing quality can you get quality back.

 

[Hivemind]

If we're sticking with the 1-3-1 powerplay, Brouwer's job isn't a particularly difficult one. Firing off a one-timer from a short pass is a skill most NHL forwards possess, and regardless of who's in the slot, their position on the ice forces the defense to consider them a serious scoring threat.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I think all of these suggestions about trading Brouwer - or even sending Wilson down to Plymouth - presume that Fehr's injury woes are behind him.

I agree with you that he needs to hold up a while longer yet before we can have confidence in those shoulders, but if he does stay healthy, then you have to ask the question: Given our cap situation and GLARING holes at LD, LW, and now possibly 3C, is Brouwer so much better than our other RW options that he's worth the extra $$. I'm not so sure.

HUGE assumption, GINORMOUS considering historical evidence. I'm in no way suggesting Brouwer isn't replaceable at 2RW, just that nobody we have has shown the ability to fill and sustain a high level of production. Until that player steps up, you're just stealing from Peter (Forwards) to give to Paul (Defense).

2 things.

It not Fehr or bust. We have these forwards to populate the top 6+ slots (or the top 9)--- Ovechkin, Bacsktrom, Johnasson, Laich, Erat, Grabovski, Ward, Chimera, Wilson and Fehr. 10 guys for 9 slot, NOT including Brouwer.

Montreal fan has roundly accepted Josh Gorges for Brouwer. Not saying that could happen, but that's an example?

We're talking about a specific roster spot, 2RW. The available fillers are slim. People are complaining about Laich at 2LW, suddenly he's a 20G replacement that works @2RW?? Ward, Chimera, Wilson, Fehr. Those are your options (I'm assuming Erat is eventually 2LW (Laich moves to 3C). Wilson might be that guy, maybe as early as next season, but not this year.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Erat can play 2RW and everyone knows it, especially George.

The only talk about trading Brouwer is because we have too many RWs, we have a hole at 2LD, and I contend his value is high now. Sure Fehr may not be able to fully reproduce his PP numbers, but he may exceed them at ES. I do not feel Brouwer is the reason why our PP is number 1. It will likely fail in the playoffs anyways. I would rather build an ES team.

Sometimes, a GM just has to take a little risk.

Reasons to keep Brouwer are many of course. But only by dealing quality can you get quality back.

Who plays 2LW if Erat plays 2RW? The ghost that's been there so far? I think Brouwer's value is inflated by those HOPING, hell PRAYING that we can pick up a stud 2LD. I suspect the return would be less than flattering without the Caps adding a lot more, like picks/prospects.

 

[Raikkonen]

Reading about Canes' D. Here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1511705

One quote I would like to see here later about Erskine:

Harrison: Happily back in a third-line role, Harry has been Harry. It's kind of amazing how much better third-pairing Harry is than second-pairing Harry.

 

[Burakovsky95*]

oates made a comment post practice about that line and its minuses. one was neuvirth falling down. one was fehr coming out of the box on a pk. a 3rd set of - was an empty net goal against.

by the way its interesting to see Boyd Gordon with 3pts in 3 games and 61% in faceoffs.

Regardless of the minuses do you seriously believe they've played well enough to warrant sticking with?

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Reading about Canes' D. Here: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1511705

One quote I would like to see here later about Erskine:

Been saying Erskine would be a great 3LD for a Carrick or Kundratek. Both of them are apt to jump into the play. They need a physical, stay at home D to compliment their style of play.

Hoping against hope Urbom blossoms here.

 

[RandyHolt]

Who plays 2LW if Erat plays 2RW? The ghost that's been there so far? I think Brouwer's value is inflated by those HOPING, hell PRAYING that we can pick up a stud 2LD. I suspect the return would be less than flattering without the Caps adding a lot more, like picks/prospects.

LWs Laich and MJ. They are there anyways.

I think a hole at 2LD is bigger than a hole at 2LW. I have no problem trying a board guy on their off wing. Someone has to do the dirty work. I'd try Joel Ward. Hell ink Byers if we are desperate / callup Hershey's best, or move up Chimera and dress Volpatti.

It's a bit mindboggling to me that Ward is so highly respected yet doesn't get a single shift in our top 6.

The position of strength to deal from, is RW. If any deal is to be done at all. Things will change a lot if Wilson gets sent to Plymouth.

George see's all of Brouwer's good traits and that is why he would never sell him. George tries to peddle his trash, even if the parts he has don't fit together.

I think Brouwer's also highly regarded because he is the vocal leader Ovi is not. George hears the whispers from his moles. Troy yelled today, at....

 

[Raikkonen]

All the talk about how OV isn't a vocal leader should be put to the rest. It's obvious now that he should be not guilty for anything even after a murder. For a while.

He is not the problem now

 

[442]

FWIW ....

#KHL's CSKA acquired KHL rights to #Caps' Orlov and #NHLJets' Telegin. This signals the team will try to return the two to Russia.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

FWIW ....

#KHL's CSKA acquired KHL rights to #Caps' Orlov and #NHLJets' Telegin. This signals the team will try to return the two to Russia.

I've been saying it, if he doesn't get a consistent NHL role this season, he's gone for nothing. He HAS to be traded if he's not in DC sharpish.

 

[BrooklynCapsFan]

FWIW ....

#KHL's CSKA acquired KHL rights to #Caps' Orlov and #NHLJets' Telegin. This signals the team will try to return the two to Russia.

Shame about Orlov's concussion. I think he could have been a fixture in the top 4. I don't necessarily think it should have played out exactly like this, but I understand it to an extent.

 

[Jasper17]

I don't think anyone wants to trade Brouwer. But you have to give up something to get something in return. And generally a team wants to trade from their strenghs to imporve areas of weakness. Don't think anyone can argue RW is this teams strengh right now. I don't think we are trading Ovechkin or Wilson. Ward and Fehr are not getting anything in return. The only real option from the RW's we have on the roster that can get anything of decent value in return is Brouwer.

I don't want to move him. But its an option.

And I also think people need to stop worrying about how moves affect this team now and start worrying more about how moves affect this team starting 2015. I don't see us a true cup contender until the 2015/2016 season. This team will not be a true contender until Kuznetsov and Wilson become impact top 6 players and the defense is improved as we probably need 2 top 4 calibre defensman added to what we have (need to have great depth on the 3rd pairing too). Thats certainly not happening this season and more than likely not happening next. So the potential hole in the top 4 that moving Brouwer would create this season is not a major worry for me as Wilson should fill that role sooner rather than later.

All that being said. Ideally Wilson can take the 2nd line spot, Brouwer can move down the 3rd and Ward will either be 4th/gone after his contract is up. And we can improve the D from free agency. But GMGM doesn't believe in free agency so who knows.

 

[RandyHolt]

I wonder if George will be more hesitant towards drafting Russians.

If Orlov is a write off now with the KHL looming, I would roll the dice. Give him one last chance to showcase his talent, at 3RD if needed. Sorry Carrick but you will be just fine in Hershey for a week. Since we are obsessed with him at LD, losing Hillen, we are foolish to not give him another chance.

But consider trading him if George has already written him off. George will pretend to not be influenced by the KHL, but he will be, and is.

Building a defense through the draft is great but not when your top picks fail after years of grooming.

Personally I think shifting him to LD has been more a problem than his concussion. Players get injured. Young players take time. Especially guys that have a concussion history. A GM has to expect one, and not panic and demote him, shift his position, which may well ruin his game as much as the hit on the head did.

 

[Jasper17]

Personally I think shifting him to LD has been more a problem than his concussion. Players get injured. Young players take time. Especially guys that have a concussion history. A GM has to expect one, and not panic and demote him, shift his position, and ruin their games.

This is Oates not GMGM. Oates is the one who wants only lefties on the left and righties on the right. But lets be serious. I know its not easy to switch sides. But it shouldn't make or break your career either. If the team superstar is willing to do it than everyone should.

Orlov needs to step up. We can make excuses or blame coaches or GM's. But if Carrick can force his way onto the team than anyone can force their way onto the team if they are playing well. Orlov just isn't playing good enough.

 

[Ridley Simon]

I don't think anyone wants to trade Brouwer. But you have to give up something to get something in return. And generally a team wants to trade from their strenghs to imporve areas of weakness. Don't think anyone can argue RW is this teams strengh right now. I don't think we are trading Ovechkin or Wilson. Ward and Fehr are not getting anything in return. The only real option from the RW's we have on the roster that can get anything of decent value in return is Brouwer.

I don't want to move him. But its an option.

And I also think people need to stop worrying about how moves affect this team now and start worrying more about how moves affect this team starting 2015. I don't see us a true cup contender until the 2015/2016 season. This team will not be a true contender until Kuznetsov and Wilson become impact top 6 players and the defense is improved as we probably need 2 top 4 calibre defensman added to what we have (need to have great depth on the 3rd pairing too). Thats certainly not happening this season and more than likely not happening next. So the potential hole in the top 4 that moving Brouwer would create this season is not a major worry for me as Wilson should fill that role sooner rather than later.

All that being said. Ideally Wilson can take the 2nd line spot, Brouwer can move down the 3rd and Ward will either be 4th/gone after his contract is up. And we can improve the D from free agency. But GMGM doesn't believe in free agency so who knows.

Right. Exactly, and I forgot to mention this. We have Wilson and Kuzetsov (especially Kuznetsov) primed to join the top 6. We have a pipeline of offense coming for the top 6, even inclusing Burakovsky (or whatever his name is).

What do you see coming up the D pipeline? No one that screams "Top 4!!!". Trade NHL ready top 6 for NHL ready top 4.

We arent winning the Cup this year everyone, face it. So Brouwer over Fehr (or Ward, or Wilson, or Laich, or Erat, or whomever) isnt relevant.

Get the D we need, fix the goals against and 5 on 5, and hope if/when Kuznetsov comes over, we are in position to make the playoffs and see what happens.

If not, next year we will be far more well rounded, and ready for a "next step" type year.

 

[RandyHolt]

What is stepping up? If its not fighting or scoring a goal, I am not sure how easy it is to get noticed. Steady Eddies never step up their game yet get their chance.

Orlov's talents favor the offensive side more than the defensive, yet would not get a minute of PP time if he were here.

I just refuse to believe that he cannot play hockey anymore. George does not always know best in what I have seen. I have not seen Orlov falling on his face. All i saw was out for an injury, Oates moved his position, and in the NHL games he fared in most recently, looked just fine to me.