CBJWerenski8
Formerly CBJWennberg10 (RIP Kivi)
- Jun 13, 2009
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2023 NHL Entry Draft Thread (June 28-29, Nashville, TN) -- Who is your choice at 3rd?
- Thread starter tunnelvision
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his teammates and coaches rave about his 200-foot game. he also made significant changes/improvements to his skating over the last year. in other words: he's coachable and playing the way they want him to.
scott wheeler says that the tracked data + eye test show that smith is really good at stealing the puck on stick lifts high in the d-zone. smith's been on record saying he wants to kill penalties in college.
if the jackets pick smith, i bet they're doing so because they're extremely confident that he'll be a good two-way player, whether that happens under BC's coaches or in columbus. they've seen the player far more than the public sphere folks have and have significantly more data to pull from.
front offices have infinitely more data at their disposal than public analytics pundits + have an entirely different use case for it (coaching/player dev). even this chart has a staggeringly small sample size at just 120 minutes for smith – he played something like 1500 minutes for the NTDP this season.
To switch gears and potentially defend Smith, the motor thing is hard to judge. He plays on a near perfect junior line where everyone fills a role so he doesnt have to do some of those jobs. Its tricky because you have to predict what hes not doing because thats the system they run and how hes told to play or does he simply not have the desire. He plays in a league and system where he can cheat offense more and expirement that way. Hes doing what we want drafted prospects to do and complaining about it to some degree. We want the Sillingers/Chinakhovs/Bemstrom to play in lower leagues to dominate offensively and get used to holding the puck and not playing hot potato when they get it. But the guess work becomes do you think he can expand the 2 way game because from what we've seen there isnt much to go off of yet.
Some of this stuff is similar for Fantilli. People question the IQ which is nonsense to me, I think hes expirementing and learning on the fly. Prospects do that in every league when they jump up in competition, we were just excited watching Johnson do the same thing in the NHL.
Where would Jack Hughes be without the skating though
my biggest issue with the draft discourse is that fantilli and carlsson get the benefit of the doubt with their shortcomings because of their size, but smith doesn't. people want big centers so they'll look past similarly pressing concerns (fantilli's hockey IQ, carlsson's skating/shot) with those players – or more accurately, assume that they'll be fixed.
meanwhile, smith's situation (playing on an all-offense top line in a system that focuses on having numbers on the rush) contributes to the perception of flaws in his game and people act like it's unfixable or say "oh so we don't care about defense then?!"
the truth is that none of these issues are fatal flaws for any of these players. none of them are finished products! but the irony is that the areas where smith needs to improve are both the easiest for coaches to fix and are arguably overblown to begin with.
Doggy
Registered User
- Oct 11, 2011
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Love this quote: I like him [Dubois] better, but there is no way the Jackets will take him at 3
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Here are a few points to remember.
1. Has the CBJ been good at development? I would say low to poor. Partially rushing prospects, player and or coaching. So to say someone is going to be developed - I take that with a grain of salt. Most prospects that are good on our team excelled/developed somewhere else (not in our system) or naturally.
2. I admit coming out of the amateur ranks a lot of center prospects have defensive problems. The better one’s already understand the positioning but lack a high offensive game. The more elite one’s are already very good at defense and very good at offense.
3. KJ - if he was a center, why didn't they swap him with Roslovic on a lost season. The CBJ can keep saying that but until they put him at center and keep him their he is in my book a very good/possibly elite winger. Mark my words he will stop being talked about at center with this draft pick and possible hockey trade add.
After reading all of my opinions (with facts) of the 2 prospects sounds like Carlsson and which one sounds like Smith. Just for the record this isn’t the only logical path/conclusion but specifically focusing on defense or comparisons to KJ.
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Because size used properly is a skill, we see it every playoffs. If everything else were equal you would obviously take the bigger player. There will be tight checking games vs teams like Carolina where a guy like Carlsson will be able to hold and shield a puck where a guy like Smith may struggle more.
Also I dont think Carlsson's skating is any worse than Smith's and Id argue shooting is the most easily improved. I guess the only thing will be how often will he use it
if by "smith mold" you mean "who play the type of game that will smith does right now as an 18-year-old prospect" well, you're probably right.
but there are plenty of players who had similar traits (hands, knack for manipulating defenders, ability to play at high speed, mix of high-end playmaking and goal scoring) and weaknesses (strength, d-zone play) at smith's age who turned into franchise centers: mackinnon, eichel, barzal, hughes, suzuki, stutzle, etc.
the idea of a 'will smith mold' is pointless. he's an uber-talented prospect who is elite in some areas but needs refinement in others. he's far from a finished product, but he oozes high-end traits. in other words, he's not the mold, he's the clay – the idea is to develop him in the mold of those other guys.
Cowumbus
Registered User
Not really, based on the replies
And if it is, why are we taking his player cards as gospel in this forum?
Cowumbus
Registered User
Be careful. He predicts a potential superstar going to Pittsburgh just as their current one is getting older. He might be onto something here...
he does a joke board every year that bucks the consensus at the top (which is what people react to in the comments) and rounds it out with a bunch of fakes names
the following prospects don't exist:
- darcy bingley (pretty sure this is a pride and prejudice joke?)
- nikita nogoalov (no goal ov as a goalie name)
- planktyn chumbouquet (spongebob reference)
- galidor bluetooth
- fagorn legge-horne (looney toons)
- theodore tugboat
- rodolfs nøse (rudolph the red nosed reindeer)
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i mean if there's actually a goalie out there named nikita nogoalov the jackets should absolutely draft him
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TaketheCannoli
RIP
I remember talking with a friend from Finland the day after the draft. He was working and living in Columbus at the time. He is very knowledgeable, played Jr. hockey in Finland and counts several NHL players as friends. He told me Jarmo made a huge mistake passing on Puljujarvi and my friend said he would no longer be a Blue Jackets fan.
It's funny to remember how silly I was after the lottery by dreaming of getting to read these exciting discussions in the draft thread for the next two months, with about 70% of it consisting of Carlsson vs Fantilli debate and "who we gonna take with other picks?" for the remaining 30%. But instead, it often feels like it's been 90% of Carlsson vs Smith that's been going in circles for god knows how long and 10% some other stuff.
But it's all fun after all so I'll try to not sound like I'm complaining lol. Too much homogeneity (everybody preferring Carlsson/Fantilli) could be boring anyway.
Just glad it's soon draft time.
Kakko vs Carlsson is an interesting comparison in that they came through a similar path. I might be inclined to argue Kakko even had the more impressive draft season. Though I gotta admit I don't follow Finnish Liiga, but he had solid production there (better P/GP than Carlsson in the SHL but I have no idea about usage etc.) and he was super impressive at worlds. OK, he was scoring a goal with like every shot, but even if he hadn't produced he looked like one of the better players on ice most games.
Now, I don't think Kakko is a bust, he just turned 22 earlier this year and I still think he'll end up a good player, just how good I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised at a break-through season where he becomes something like a P/GP 1st liner. But there's really no guarantee Carlsson (or anyone else from this draft...) will have any better start to their NHL career than Kakko has had.
New draft strategy, just pick the most baby-faced guy you can find, if he sounds like a 12-year old all the better. Imagine what that kid can do once he hits puberty.
Now, I don't think Kakko is a bust, he just turned 22 earlier this year and I still think he'll end up a good player, just how good I'm not sure, but I wouldn't be surprised at a break-through season where he becomes something like a P/GP 1st liner. But there's really no guarantee Carlsson (or anyone else from this draft...) will have any better start to their NHL career than Kakko has had.
New draft strategy, just pick the most baby-faced guy you can find, if he sounds like a 12-year old all the better. Imagine what that kid can do once he hits puberty.
That’s a lot of word vomit to not actually respond to the comparison I made
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