2023 NHL Entry Draft Thread (June 28-29, Nashville, TN) -- Who is your choice at 3rd?

[KJ Dangler]

And I've repeatedly said that I think he still becomes an elite player. Which means he's going to develop and become a good player. I'm just not sold that's he's going to become an elite center. And when we are picking a potential cornerstone centerpiece after promising we're getting a franchise center in the draft..
... That's a big deal. Half of his game has a massive question mark to it if he's going to play center.

If people want to question Carlssons ability to shoot and score goals, I'm going to question Smiths ability to play in his own zone and play defense. Something he's not shown in his draft year. I think it's fair to question whether Smith is able to do something in the NHL that he hasn't shown he's capable of doing against his own peers of u18 players.

Carlssons biggest question mark...hisability to shoot(or not shoot) .....doesn't effect his ability to play center at all.

Smiths ability to play in his own zone and below that hashmarks will make or break his ability to play center.

Except one is a system issue , the other is a skill issue .: Cooley , Hughes had these same questions, it’s the system NTDP plays .. Carlssons issue is he doesn’t put much velocity on his shot , and he’s not real good at beating the goalie one on one .

 

[stevo61]

Except one is a system issue , the other is a skill issue .: Cooley , Hughes had these same questions, it’s the system NTDP plays .. Carlssons issue is he doesn’t put much velocity on his shot , and he’s not real good at beating the goalie one on one .

Rick Nash didnt have the greatest velocity and he did fine. I still think back to that hardest shot competition from time to time and chuckle.

Seems like a pretty fixable "issue" for Carlsson and he scores fine against his peers. Also being able to score in tight is not a con.

 

[Youngguns80]

That’s a lot of word vomit to not actually respond to the comparison I made

Then here you go, because I didn't mean to answer yours.

Comparing Jack Hughes to Smith anything like him you are wayyyy offf. Smith is nowhere near anything of Jack Hughes caliber except they both played on the US National Team and they play Center.

How is that for word vomit???

 

[Viqsi]

At this point, when picking between top consensus guys, I frankly don't give a flying f*** about their offense projection; I care about whether or not they can handle the rest of the ice.

Carlsson has demonstrated he most likely can. Smith has not demonstrated it, and whether that's because system or because he just doesn't bother is an unknown.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Then here you go, because I didn't mean to answer yours.

Comparing Jack Hughes to Smith anything like him you are wayyyy offf. Smith is nowhere near anything of Jack Hughes caliber except they both played on the US National Team and they play Center.

How is that for word vomit???

Much more succinct, thank you

 

[stevo61]

At this point, when picking between top consensus guys, I frankly don't give a flying f*** about their offense projection; I care about whether or not they can handle the rest of the ice.

Carlsson has demonstrated he most likely can. Smith has not demonstrated it, and whether that's because system or because he just doesn't bother is an unknown.

Well you need to worry about the offense to some degree. You obviously cant pick top 3 and get a 3rd line shutdown guy and be happy about it. Its a tricky thing for scouts but theyll have a lot more insight then we do. Will be interesting but if they go off concensus and get it wrong with this particular pick there would be no coming back from it for Jarmo

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

Jack Hughes

There a good chance Jack Hughes would be a winger if he wasnt one of the best skaters in the world. Smith isn't an amazing skater. He could have hard time at center.

This is why I cringe whenever anyone posts anything from “JFresh” as gospel on this board….

Pretty sure that’s satire

It is 100% satire. He does it every year and the responses are always great fun

 

[majormajor]

Tampa Bay Lightning crushed this theory.

Point, Cirelli, Gourde, all super high end defensive players.

5 ft 11.75 in, 180 lbs cerebral C sounds a lot like Aho, Hughes, Point, Crosby?

It's not the build. Aho, Point, and prime Crosby could/can play great defensive games. Jack Hughes can't, and he is only a partial center (have a look at Erik Haula for the rest of the job), but he is a great forward. I don't see the skill similarity between Hughes and Smith. The pace is almost opposite.

Except one is a system issue , the other is a skill issue .: Cooley , Hughes had these same questions, it’s the system NTDP plays .. Carlssons issue is he doesn’t put much velocity on his shot , and he’s not real good at beating the goalie one on one .

Logan Cooley was messy but he would battle all over the ice. Kid played with tremendous energy. No off switch.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[Cowumbus]

Point, Cirelli, Gourde, all super high end defensive players.



It's not the build. Aho, Point, and prime Crosby could/can play great defensive games. Jack Hughes can't, and he is only a partial center (have a look at Erik Haula for the rest of the job), but he is a great forward. I don't see the skill similarity between Hughes and Smith. The pace is almost opposite.



Logan Cooley was messy but he would battle all over the ice. Kid played with tremendous energy. No off switch.

Point wasn’t the defender he is now during his draft year.

 

[majormajor]

Well you need to worry about the offense to some degree. You obviously cant pick top 3 and get a 3rd line shutdown guy and be happy about it. Its a tricky thing for scouts but theyll have a lot more insight then we do. Will be interesting but if they go off concensus and get it wrong with this particular pick there would be no coming back from it for Jarmo

If we were drafting 2nd I'd have to think long and hard about that with Fantilli. He's the guy that is more reminiscent of Puljujarvi. Though unless he ends up having two failing hips I wouldn't worry about his upside being literally that low.

Point wasn’t the defender he is now during his draft year.

I've read the scouting reports from his draft year and he was commended for his incredible battle level, and I think for his defense too. He was a warrior on the forecheck.

 

[Cowumbus]

I've read the scouting reports from his draft year and he was commended for his incredible battle level, and I think for his defense too. He was a warrior on the forecheck.

“Point plays a gritty, physical game. He’s an aggressive fore-checker and while he’s not a complete three-zone player yet…” Brayden Point - The Next Ones: 2014 NHL Draft Prospect Profiles

You’re comparing the two way play of guys that are / have gotten Selke votes to an 18 year old. Aho was drafted as a winger, he developed. Smith can too.

I don’t get the effort argument? Are you saying Smith doesn’t try yet still broke US program records? Or is it because he skates like Johansen. I don’t really care about him “not playing a 200 foot game” when his team doesn’t need him to.

 

[majormajor]

“Point plays a gritty, physical game. He’s an aggressive fore-checker and while he’s not a complete three-zone player yet…” Brayden Point - The Next Ones: 2014 NHL Draft Prospect Profiles

You’re comparing the two way play of guys that are / have gotten Selke votes to an 18 year old. Aho was drafted as a winger, he developed. Smith can too.

Lol, that is a hilarious cherrypicked quote. You can find other quotes, including some in the same article you linked, talking about how great his D game is. The end of the sentence, for those wondering, is "he's no slouch".

There are high talent players in the NHL who lack value overall because they were never able to develop defensively. Not everyone can do it. You have to think about how you can get from A to B. Brayden Point didn't have far to go and he had an incredible battle level to build off of. Will Smith has a chasm to cross and I don't see him having the energy to do it. A player with a big off switch is more of a concern for me.

 

[Cowumbus]

Lol, that is a hilarious cherrypicked quote. You can find other quotes, including some in the same article you linked, talking about how great his D game is. The end of the sentence, for those wondering, is "he's no slouch".

So was his two way play incredible or not? Or did it develop?

There are high talent players in the NHL who lack value overall because they were never able to develop defensively.

Like Mittlestadt (who has developed) or Roslovic, except he’s far and away better than both.

Not everyone can do it.

For players with his IQ, it’s not very hard.

You have to think about how you can get from A to B. Brayden Point didn't have far to go and he had an incredible battle level to build off of. Will Smith has a chasm to cross and I don't see him having the energy to do it. A player with a big off switch is more of a concern for me.

We don’t need him to win a Selke, Jack Eichel just won the cup with Vegas as their 1C.

The entire point of brining in Babcock was to improve the defensive structure. I feel much more comfortable with trying to tame an offensive dynamo than inserting a guy with scoring concerns but “good” two way play especially joining into a defensive minded team.

I can’t fathom how people watch Smith play and think he’s not going to be an impactful NHL player off IQ alone. Pavelski is doing it still to this day!

 

[majormajor]

I don’t get the effort argument? Are you saying Smith doesn’t try yet still broke US program records? Or is it because he skates like Johansen. I don’t really care about him “not playing a 200 foot game” when his team doesn’t need him to.

He has plenty of try when the puck is on his stick. We've all seen / played with guys like that. The wheels in their head spin with the puck and don't move at all without it.

So was his two way play incredible or not?

Some said it was great. I don't think this Point/Smith comparison looks good for Smith.

For players with his IQ, it’s not very hard.

I think defensive IQ is sometimes separable. Guys have to be able to read others. Some players show tremendous IQ only one way.

I feel much more comfortable with trying to tame an offensive dynamo than inserting guy with scoring concerns but “good” two way play especially joining into a defensive minded team.

That would be an interesting debate to me if we were deciding between Smith and Dvorsky (I'd take Smith). But the alternative at #3 is going to be a guy with elite offensive potential, whether it's Carlsson or Fantilli. 90 or 100 pt potential.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

We don’t need him to win a Selke, Jack Eichel just won the cup with Vegas as their 1C.

jack eichel also famously was a disaster in his own end pretty much up until he got moved to vegas.

defense can be taught. dynamic offensive ability can't. and before people say "oh yeah well carlsson is dynamic too!!!" i'm not saying he isn't, but will smith is the single best player in the draft at breaking down defensemen with the puck on his stick.

 

[Cowumbus]

Carlsson 90 or 100 pt potential.

I just don’t see this at all, tbh. I don’t see an elite tool that gets him there. SHL seems hit or miss outside of Yzerman draft picks.

For every Lucas Raymond you have a Lias Andersson.

I do think Carlsson’s safer, but the upside isn’t as high.

 

[Koira]

This is why I cringe whenever anyone posts anything from “JFresh” as gospel on this board….

I really hope Chicago will draft a guy named Kyrpä Otsassa

 

[KJ Dangler]

“Point plays a gritty, physical game. He’s an aggressive fore-checker and while he’s not a complete three-zone player yet…” Brayden Point - The Next Ones: 2014 NHL Draft Prospect Profiles

You’re comparing the two way play of guys that are / have gotten Selke votes to an 18 year old. Aho was drafted as a winger, he developed. Smith can too.

I don’t get the effort argument? Are you saying Smith doesn’t try yet still broke US program records? Or is it because he skates like Johansen. I don’t really care about him “not playing a 200 foot game” when his team doesn’t need him to.

Seems to discount , and it’s been said multiple times thru out the years , this is how NTDP plays .. You had the most dynamic line in junior hockey.. why not try to score every time you are on the ice .. kid has said repeatedly, he wants to play the PK at BC , sounds committed to be a 2 way player to me .. also has given interviews how Kent Hughes has worked with him personally on becoming a 2 way center .. I did find the above interesting that Will Smith points per game vs NCAA teams topped Fantillis.. Inhad read that prior and was trying to locate link

I just don’t see this at all, tbh. I don’t see an elite tool that gets him there. SHL seems hit or miss outside of Yzerman draft picks.

For every Lucas Raymond you have a Lias Andersson.

I do think Carlsson’s safer, but the upside isn’t as high.

I don’t see how we consistently scores over 15g season .. maybe a few here or there where he gets deflection goals and gets hot .. Jason Chimera vibes .. feet are moving fast but rarely beats the goalie

 

[CBJWerenski8]

 

[stevo61]

Seems to discount , and it’s been said multiple times thru out the years , this is how NTDP plays .. You had the most dynamic line in junior hockey.. why not try to score every time you are on the ice .. kid has said repeatedly, he wants to play the PK at BC , sounds committed to be a 2 way player to me .. also has given interviews how Kent Hughes has worked with him personally on becoming a 2 way center .. I did find the above interesting that Will Smith points per game vs NCAA teams topped Fantillis.. Inhad read that prior and was trying to locate link


I don’t see how we consistently scores over 15g season .. maybe a few here or there where he gets deflection goals and gets hot .. Jason Chimera vibes .. feet are moving fast but rarely beats the goalie

Its a gamble and a tough thing to weigh for a scout either way. The PK specifically doesnt mean too much though, I get what he means but even Roslovic is a fine PKer. Hes trying to say he wants to improve defensively but every prospect will say that, will be interesting to see what scouts whose jobs are on the line will think. Random scouting services, Portzline or us as fans have no consequences for being wrong

 

[Columbus Jack]

I'd be very happy with Fantilli. He seems a good mix between high floor and high upside. Carlsson is a great player at 3 too, Smith might have the highest upside but he's not the type of 200ft player this team needs.

Give me Fantilli or Carlsson, Smith seems to have serious defensive warts that we don't need to bother with when the pick is at 3rd overall.

 

[majormajor]

kid has said repeatedly, he wants to play the PK at BC

You've posted this about twelve times, you really think this is persuasive material? Talking the talk about playing a complete game isn't worth a whole lot.

I thought it was interesting that Smith commented about what he learned from his former coach Kent Hughes, he said he learned about how important it was to play the defensive side of the game. And then you look at how Smith plays the defensive side this year!

 

[Cowumbus]

Trade Laine and next years 1st and get both

 

[KJ Dangler]

You've posted this about twelve times, you really think this is persuasive material? Talking the talk about playing a complete game isn't worth a whole lot.

I thought it was interesting that Smith commented about what he learned from his former coach Kent Hughes, he said he learned about how important it was to play the defensive side of the game. And then you look at how Smith plays the defensive side this year!

His defensive game improved quite a bit , which Wheeler and Pronman have discussed quite a bit . He’s not physical , more of a stick lift defender , but same goes for Carlsson , he doesn’t remotely play a physical game ..