2023 NHL Entry Draft Thread (June 28-29, Nashville, TN) -- Who is your choice at 3rd?

[Xoggz22]

What is most important for us, even more important than how their respective NHL careers go, is laying down our opinions now so we can complain and post "told ya"s when the time comes.

I didn't think I needed to add that point.

 

[Xoggz22]

Funny how superior Smith is yet there are zero franchise C’s from Smith mold in the NHL.

& Carlsson types are the most valuable when it’s time to win real games

Just curious... what is the Smith mold? Serious question.

If it's that he can't develop and doesn't play defense... are we saying Hello Sonny Milano? If that's the case then I'm with all of you downers on this kid and I want no part of him. Granted I believe kids can develop and if they have the IQ and brain, coaching should put them in a position to play within a system (defensive understanding). Now if he truly has no desire (I don't personally believe that but that's just an opinion and based on what I've read from coaches and trainers around him) then you can't teach that. That comes from within.

 

[GoJackets1]

Give me a kid whose effort level is considered a strength over a kid whose effort level is a concern, any day of the week. Especially when their skill and hockey sense are similar.

 

[stevo61]

Except for the fact that the USNTDP plays NCAA teams as well.

Will Smith vs the NCAA: 16G 24A 40P in 22GP 1.82 PPG

Adam Fantilli vs the NCAA: 30G 35A 65P in 36GP 1.81 PPG

“Yeah but Will Smith plays with better players at the program!”

Really? Because Fantilli played alongside Brindley and McGroarty.

D-1:


If we take Smith I’ll be very happy.

Yeah but Fantilli seperated himself from his linemates. He had 65 points when McGroaty had 39 and Brindley had 38. Smith played on a line where they all scored 50 goals and didnt even lead the line in scoring, seems relevant.

I dont dislike Smith as a prospect but then when you start looking beyond the points he falls off fast from Fantilli/Carlsson

 

[KJ Dangler]

Give me a kid whose effort level is considered a strength over a kid whose effort level is a concern, any day of the week. Especially when their skill and hockey sense are similar.

That would be Will Smith .. who steps up in the big moments , who wants to play the PK at BC next year to further develop his game , who worked his tail off to massively improve his skating and speed in the weight room at his past season , and worked his way all the way into top 5 , rather than being placed there because he’s 6ft 3 210 lbs

 

[Monk]

Can't wait for the band aid to get ripped off. Too many of these kids' moms are in this thread.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

That would be Will Smith .. who steps up in the big moments , who wants to play the PK at BC next year to further develop his game , who worked his tail off to massively improve his skating and speed in the weight room at his past season , and worked his way all the way into top 5 , rather than being placed there because he’s 6ft 3 210 lbs

And no one else, especially not Leo Carlsson.

 

[ViD]

Funny how superior Smith is yet there are zero franchise C’s from Smith mold in the NHL.

& Carlsson types are the most valuable when it’s time to win real games

Tampa Bay Lightning crushed this theory.

 

[Monk]

Can't wait for the band aid to get ripped off. Too many of these kids' moms are in this thread.

As an unrelated side note, Kent Johnson sorta looks like he could be Will Smith's mom

 

[Cowumbus]

Yeah but Fantilli seperated himself from his linemates. He had 65 points when McGroaty had 39 and Brindley had 38. Smith played on a line where they all scored 50 goals and didnt even lead the line in scoring, seems relevant.

Cooley Nazar and Howard were the same way. Cooley didn’t lead in scoring either.

Funny how superior Smith is yet there are zero franchise C’s from Smith mold in the NHL.

5 ft 11.75 in, 180 lbs cerebral C sounds a lot like Aho, Hughes, Point, Crosby?

 

[Doggy]

All this debate about who to take at #3OA had me reading through our 2016 draft thread. Just makes us remember...none of us really know. Some quotes from just the first four pages of a 33 page thread....

• Perhaps the scouts are preferring a more well rounded player [Puljujarvi] than the "next Ovie?"
• I've always thought there was a good chance Winnipeg could take Puljujärvi. He has always been the number 2 draft prospect, IMO. I actually like him more than Matthews, but that is because I like his game more.
• I'll go so far as to say Matthew Tkachuk is exactly what the CBJ needs instead of Puljujärvi [Not Wendell gets major props for this one]
• [Response to last comment] Yeah, that isn't even close...your statement is just flat out wrong. Puljujärvi is SO much better...Bigger, better skater, more skill (IMO), etc....We are about to draft the best player we have ever drafted. Yes, better than Nash or anyone else we have drafted before
• Jesse is a good bit younger and unlike Tkachuk he's been playing against men. And better at what? He's an infinitely better skater, for one. Imagine Jake Voracek with better shooting and finishing
• I'd rather have Puljujarvi because of his playmaking abilities and if not him I think I'd rather have Dubois because of his versatility
• Tkachuk is more like Rychel if Rychel was more talented with the puck
• Puljujärvi is an absolute steal at 3 IMO. We run to the stage, make the announcement and then celebrate the grand larceny we got away with
• Columbus, if you guys manage to mess this up by not taking Pulju, please mess up in such a way that Pulju does not go to Edmonton. That is all. He deserves better
• I never thought there would be this much debate about this third pick and what we will do
• there is a high probability we end up with a top 8 pick next season [we won 50 games, 24th pick]
• If we leave this draft without taking Puljujarvi, it may be time for me to go back to rooting for the red wings

 

[Long Live Lyle]

Just curious... what is the Smith mold? Serious question.

If it's that he can't develop and doesn't play defense... are we saying Hello Sonny Milano? If that's the case then I'm with all of you downers on this kid and I want no part of him. Granted I believe kids can develop and if they have the IQ and brain, coaching should put them in a position to play within a system (defensive understanding). Now if he truly has no desire (I don't personally believe that but that's just an opinion and based on what I've read from coaches and trainers around him) then you can't teach that. That comes from within.

This is the key question (and one that some/many of you might know more than me): why was Smith’s D so bad?

Was it a USNDT system thing where he can/knows how to but wasn’t asked to or was instructed to play a certain way?

Was it that he wasn’t/hasn’t been coached well on how to (but has the physical and mental and competitive capabilities to develop a good defensive game with proper coaching)?

Was it that he physically/mentally can do it but he doesn’t want to?

Was it that he (at least at this moment) doesn’t have the physical/mental ability to do it?

Any of the 4 above are at least a slight concern, but I’d say they’re in descending order of worry, and the first two are probably something that can be more overlooked if you want to draft him than the second two.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Great breakdown of what makes Will Smith so dangerous .. his positioning and angles are elite

 

[stevo61]

Cooley Nazar and Howard were the same way. Cooley didn’t lead in scoring either.

5 ft 11.75 in, 180 lbs cerebral C sounds a lot like Aho, Hughes, Point, Crosby?

I get that they were right there in points and there are things you can visually see to predict who can beome the best of the bunch or try and predict their upside but Fantilli was well over 1.5x his linemates production as a freshman in the NCAA, thats crazy. He had more points this year than Kent Johnson had his 2 years in Michigan combined

 

[CBJx614]

Sure, we get the sarcasm and the joke but to read this board it certainly seems like Smith is the only one who can't develop or improve his game. I've been on record that I like him. I also like Fantilli and Carlsson and would still put Smith behind the other two but I do find it odd that Montreal, San Jose and Anaheim all appear to be very high on him as well. Yeah, I get it... GM and draft speak but this board acts like the kid is a complete waste and unable to play the game of hockey. That's what bothers me with this discussion the past 3 months.

I can respect the strong feelings for some of you but think you're short sighted and blinded by what you think is correct and everyone else is wrong. We'll know if 3 years for all these top of the draft kids. Fantilli, Carlsson or Smith instantly become the CBJ #1 prospect. Period. They are all expected to be that good (based on scouting and reports). Will they be? we'll have to wait to find out.

And I've repeatedly said that I think he still becomes an elite player. Which means he's going to develop and become a good player. I'm just not sold that's he's going to become an elite center. And when we are picking a potential cornerstone centerpiece after promising we're getting a franchise center in the draft..
... That's a big deal. Half of his game has a massive question mark to it if he's going to play center.

If people want to question Carlssons ability to shoot and score goals, I'm going to question Smiths ability to play in his own zone and play defense. Something he's not shown in his draft year. I think it's fair to question whether Smith is able to do something in the NHL that he hasn't shown he's capable of doing against his own peers of u18 players.

Carlssons biggest question mark...hisability to shoot(or not shoot) .....doesn't effect his ability to play center at all.

Smiths ability to play in his own zone and below that hashmarks will make or break his ability to play center.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

All this debate about who to take at #3OA had me reading through our 2016 draft thread. Just makes us remember...none of us really know. Some quotes from just the first four pages of a 33 page thread....

• Perhaps the scouts are preferring a more well rounded player [Puljujarvi] than the "next Ovie?"
• I've always thought there was a good chance Winnipeg could take Puljujärvi. He has always been the number 2 draft prospect, IMO. I actually like him more than Matthews, but that is because I like his game more.
• I'll go so far as to say Matthew Tkachuk is exactly what the CBJ needs instead of Puljujärvi [Not Wendell gets major props for this one]
• [Response to last comment] Yeah, that isn't even close...your statement is just flat out wrong. Puljujärvi is SO much better...Bigger, better skater, more skill (IMO), etc....We are about to draft the best player we have ever drafted. Yes, better than Nash or anyone else we have drafted before
• Jesse is a good bit younger and unlike Tkachuk he's been playing against men. And better at what? He's an infinitely better skater, for one. Imagine Jake Voracek with better shooting and finishing
• I'd rather have Puljujarvi because of his playmaking abilities and if not him I think I'd rather have Dubois because of his versatility
• Tkachuk is more like Rychel if Rychel was more talented with the puck
• Puljujärvi is an absolute steal at 3 IMO. We run to the stage, make the announcement and then celebrate the grand larceny we got away with
• Columbus, if you guys manage to mess this up by not taking Pulju, please mess up in such a way that Pulju does not go to Edmonton. That is all. He deserves better
• I never thought there would be this much debate about this third pick and what we will do
• there is a high probability we end up with a top 8 pick next season [we won 50 games, 24th pick]
• If we leave this draft without taking Puljujarvi, it may be time for me to go back to rooting for the red wings

Interesting perspective. I feel like literally almost the exact same language is being used up in here. I wonder if it’s by the same posters?

 

[Doggy]

Interesting perspective. I feel like literally almost the exact same language is being used up in here. I wonder if it’s by the same posters?

Agreed, similar arguments. The difference was we were debating Puljujarvi vs the field where here it is mostly two specific guys. I linked to the thread...still reading through it. Good trip down memory lane.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

Does Smith have near the same motor as a point or crosby?

 

[Cowumbus]

I get that they were right there in points and there are things you can visually see to predict who can beome the best of the bunch or try and predict their upside but Fantilli was well over 1.5x his linemates production as a freshman in the NCAA, thats crazy. He had more points this year than Kent Johnson had his 2 years in Michigan combined

Will Smith and Perreault have 1.35x the points of Leonard. My point is not that Smith > Fantilli, but rather Smith has played a good portion of games against NCAA talent.

Interesting perspective. I feel like literally almost the exact same language is being used up in here. I wonder if it’s by the same posters?

Page 1 “I hope DeBrincat is there at 34”

2023 “I hope Musty is there at 34”

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Now if he truly has no desire (I don't personally believe that but that's just an opinion and based on what I've read from coaches and trainers around him) then you can't teach that. That comes from within.

people on here have painted him as lazy for some reason but his skating looked completely different (in a good way) this year compared to last. by all accounts he is a very coachable kid who has already put in a lot of work to change parts of his game. there is no reason to think that's not going to continue or be applied to other parts of his game.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Will Smith and Perreault have 1.35x the points of Leonard. My point is not that Smith > Fantilli, but rather Smith has played a good portion of games against NCAA talent.

people are going to spin the linemates thing however they want. perrault and leonard are awesome but it's smith who is stirring the drink there. his ability to push the pace and manipulate defenders creates a ton of space for those guys. his presence there elevates their game.

meanwhile fantilli outscores his linemates by a bigger gap and somehow that's a knock on smith. i wonder if people would spin it the other way if smith had a similar gap over his linemates – would people then say he's a selfish player who racks up points but doesn't elevate his linemates?

 

[CBJx614]

Great breakdown of what makes Will Smith so dangerous .. his positioning and angles are elite

There's a lotta cherry picking going on in this videos. He's almost always the one receiving the breakout passes and starting the play at his own blue line.

And yes I get it, his system puts him there. But hockey is a fluid game and if he's playing center there would more than enough instances where he would be the leading the breakout and making the stretch passes.

From the video..

Does Smith have near the same motor as a point or crosby?

I think @majormajor has pointed a few times that his motor is an area of concern.

 

[CBJx614]

Nothing quite like a swedish family road trip across America to get know the country and get ready for the draft!

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Will Smith and Perreault have 1.35x the points of Leonard. My point is not that Smith > Fantilli, but rather Smith has played a good portion of games against NCAA talent.


Page 1 “I hope DeBrincat is there at 34”

2023 “I hope Musty is there at 34”

Kudos. Pats on the back come alongside:

Page 3 "If we don't pick Jesse I will be extremely disappointed."

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Agreed, similar arguments. The difference was we were debating Puljujarvi vs the field where here it is mostly two specific guys. I linked to the thread...still reading through it. Good trip down memory lane.

Still reading. Trying to find a place where I state a preference. I recall not being sold on Puljujarvi but I don’t recall saying they should draft someone else or who I might have favored.

There’s a good lesson to be learned about ascribing certain position to “the board” inasmuchas the 2016 debate includes two posters both dismissive of anyone but Jesse who are on clearly opposite sides of the Smith-Carlsson discussion.

Also funny to read media reports about uncertainty over the second and third picks. “I’m hearing Winnipeg might not take Laine” etc. just like 2023.

In 2016, it was CBJ the upset the apple cart.