WC: 2017 Team Russia

[Kshahdoo]

I agree with you. I would love to see Soviet hockey come back, but there would have to be special circumstances to make that possible. The senior national team would have to be drawn from the KHL, so that players could report to the national team when the KHL is on break. It requires extraordinarily intense, scientific training, but Russia has a wealth of former players who could provide details about the training.

Obviously, there would have to be special player salary arrangements, to prevent all the best players from being bought by the NHL. And players would have to be able to live normal lives with their families, and not in barracks the way Larionov describes. But I have no doubt that it could be done, and Russia would most likely become favored to win the most prestigious tournaments.

Panarin, Kuznetsov and Kucherov line looks great at the tournament, and they all are NHLers. We don't need the whole KHL roster to play Soviet hockey style, we need a proper coaching and players.

We'll have more and more good players in the future, because hockey is on the rise in Russia, so we need good coaches.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

Bragin is like Znarok, just worse. We need someone to coach Soviet hockey back. The problem is even a lot of former Soviet players are all about that ****y hit & run hockey.

To Znarok's defense, at least this year we played well. We played really good vs Canada esp. in second period, and we played our way. Znarok loves grinders and all, but he kind of realized, also SKA shows that, that it's better to unleash at least the scoring lines instead of force them into that **** of "bitsya borotsya" like as you said too many former players like nowadays.
Today's game is how we should always play and we should refrain in letting our national team coached by Znaroks, Kvartalnovs, etc.
I don't like Bragin's style, but it can't be denied that he is a great motivator. With Bragin today we would have scored two quickies in the third period and bury the Canadians like they should have "deserved".
Bykov was a great coach but at his time imho our players weren't as good as they are today.
I also have to say that I'm very worried about Vasilevsky. Before he run to NA he looked to me like the best goalie prospect in the world, nowadays I wonder whether he should ever play for Russia again... Perhaps it's just emotions, but I don't really think it's a case that we allowed so many goals in those games we lost.

 

[Yakushev72]

Panarin, Kuznetsov and Kucherov line looks great at the tournament, and they all are NHLers. We don't need the whole KHL roster to play Soviet hockey style, we need a proper coaching and players.

We'll have more and more good players in the future, because hockey is on the rise in Russia, so we need good coaches.

I disagree with your analysis that we are catching up to Canada, the USA, and even Finland and Sweden. In fact, we may be falling further behind. The Russian hockey program is tiny in comparison to Canada and the United States (according to the IIHF, Canada has a 6-1 advantage in indoor rinks, and the advantage is growing, and about an 8-1 advantage in registered players), and we are still slightly behind Finland and Sweden, which are tiny countries in comparison to Russia. There is no large-scale investment in Russian hockey that will close the gap any time soon.

Its funny, but when Canadian and American posters talk about Russian hockey, they have no consciousness at all of the fact that there is no organized Soviet-style program anymore. If Russia finishes 3rd or 4th in a major tournament, such as the 2017 WC, they seem to be puzzled as to what happened, and how such a meager finish from such a great power could have occurred? They don't realize that the Russian team is performing as well as possible considering its current functional capabilities. Sorry, but this is the best that can be done according to current capabilities.

Russia can't match the West Dollar to Ruble. Going back to its roots in hockey is probably the only way that Russia could reverse its fortunes in the near future.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I disagree with your analysis that we are catching up to Canada, the USA, and even Finland and Sweden. In fact, we may be falling further behind. The Russian hockey program is tiny in comparison to Canada and the United States (according to the IIHF, Canada has a 6-1 advantage in indoor rinks, and the advantage is growing, and about an 8-1 advantage in registered players), and we are still slightly behind Finland and Sweden, which are tiny countries in comparison to Russia. There is no large-scale investment in Russian hockey that will close the gap any time soon.

Its funny, but when Canadian and American posters talk about Russian hockey, they have no consciousness at all of the fact that there is no organized Soviet-style program anymore. If Russia finishes 3rd or 4th in a major tournament, such as the 2017 WC, they seem to be puzzled as to what happened, and how such a meager finish from such a great power could have occurred? They don't realize that the Russian team is performing as well as possible considering its current functional capabilities. Sorry, but this is the best that can be done according to current capabilities.

Russia can't match the West Dollar to Ruble. Going back to its roots in hockey is probably the only way that Russia could reverse its fortunes in the near future.

We can send 2 teams to WJC, and while we probably won't win it (it's a good question, why), both teams will be pretty even and amongst contenders.

 

[Siberian]

https://youtu.be/wLnYmep7Fo8?t=81

This goal doomed Russia. Vasilevsky makes that saves and Russia wins. After the goal Canada obvioulsy got their adrenaline and skated to the win. His anticipation of this redirect was poor to say the least. He is not a goalie to win the championships, even though he can be pretty good in many situations.

 

[Yakushev72]

We can send 2 teams to WJC, and while we probably won't win it (it's a good question, why), both teams will be pretty even and amongst contenders.

I stand by my argument that the one and only way that Russia can become a contender for the top position in hockey is to re-establish something on the order of a Soviet-style national team program focused on the KHL. Players could be convinced to stay home not by force but by very high salaries and fringe benefits. Without it, it will be 3rd or 4th place over and over again.

 

[kp61c]

We can send 2 teams to WJC, and while we probably won't win it (it's a good question, why), both teams will be pretty even and amongst contenders.

two solid teams full of 20 year old mediocrities who don't create but work on ice. there's nothing to be proud of.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

two solid teams full of 20 year old mediocrities who don't create but work on ice. there's nothing to be proud of.

You guys forget what was our WJC team 10 years ago.
We had a team?
We'd have 5 players.
Have a look at this roster: http://www.eliteprospects.com/team.php?team=1651&year0=2008

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Bragin is like Znarok, just worse. We need someone to coach Soviet hockey back. The problem is even a lot of former Soviet players are all about that ****y hit & run hockey.

But what can you expect from Znaroks, Kvartalnov, Nazarov, Bragin and all others, they played for lesser teams in the Soviet league, and the only way they could do anything vs CSKA, was playing this kind of hockey.

Bykov knows Soviet hockey, but they won't let him get back. And there won't be NHLers at the Olympics, so Znaroks will of course be a big hero. If he wins it... But I actually don't care, Olympic tournament is a 3rd tier hockey without NHLers...

Problem is, the Canadians already employ Soviet hockey but fuse it with bulldozer hockey to create a blend that Soviet hockey alone can't counter well.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

https://youtu.be/wLnYmep7Fo8?t=81

This goal doomed Russia. Vasilevsky makes that saves and Russia wins. After the goal Canada obvioulsy got their adrenaline and skated to the win. His anticipation of this redirect was poor to say the least. He is not a goalie to win the championships, even though he can be pretty good in many situations.

Well, not every goalie can save such shots, that was a pretty sneaky redirect.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

To Znarok's defense, at least this year we played well. We played really good vs Canada esp. in second period, and we played our way. Znarok loves grinders and all, but he kind of realized, also SKA shows that, that it's better to unleash at least the scoring lines instead of force them into that **** of "bitsya borotsya" like as you said too many former players like nowadays.
Today's game is how we should always play and we should refrain in letting our national team coached by Znaroks, Kvartalnovs, etc.
I don't like Bragin's style, but it can't be denied that he is a great motivator. With Bragin today we would have scored two quickies in the third period and bury the Canadians like they should have "deserved".
Bykov was a great coach but at his time imho our players weren't as good as they are today.
I also have to say that I'm very worried about Vasilevsky. Before he run to NA he looked to me like the best goalie prospect in the world, nowadays I wonder whether he should ever play for Russia again... Perhaps it's just emotions, but I don't really think it's a case that we allowed so many goals in those games we lost.

Vasilevsky was solid enough, our D was just letting Canada do too much. With offense like Canada's, goals are bound to go in.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

As long as Vasilevskiy is in net, Russia won't win a thing internationally.

Sorokin seemed more solid, I think Znarok should've went with him instead.

 

[Siberian]

Also, one huge disadvantage we get in goalies is that Hockey Canada have all the scouting information on Russian NHL goalies. They know exactly the current form the goalie is in, the strong and weak side of each goalie and what type of goals that are likely to go in. Every time you have Bobrovsky, Varlamov or Vasilevsky, they know exactly what to expect, where our coaches have no clue what to expect from our own goalies.

You almost have to play a KHL goalie against North American teams simply because there is probably no file on him and even you may be getting a less experienced goaltender, at least he will not be exposed by Canada/USA scouts.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Also, one huge disadvantage we get in goalies is that Hockey Canada have all the scouting information on Russian NHL goalies. They know exactly the current form the goalie is in, the strong and weak side of each goalie and what type of goals that are likely to go in. Every time you have Bobrovsky, Varlamov or Vasilevsky, they know exactly what to expect, where our coaches have no clue what to expect from our own goalies.

You almost have to play a KHL goalie against North American teams simply because there is probably no file on him and even you may be getting a less experienced goaltender, at least he will not be exposed by Canada/USA scouts.

In short, I'm very annoyed at this loss. We seemed to have Canada beat, just had to hold on 20 mins. but ****** it all up. Bad, quite bad.

 

[Siberian]

The reason Soviet Union used to beat handily NHL teams with ease is that when there is zero scouting on both sides NHL side doesn't have the advantage. Russian scouting is non-existing, I have seen how Russian coaches operate, they simply are not educated and supported by the federation enough to do that. NHL scouting on the other hand is now state of the art. Video support, extensive stats tracking etc. Russia is so far behind. Why do you think they bring so many coaches to the Olympics - it is just to combine the brains in order not to miss anything analyzing scouting reports.

Only having strong home league with lots of upper level talent can Russia match Canada from now on.

 

[Kshahdoo]

two solid teams full of 20 year old mediocrities who don't create but work on ice. there's nothing to be proud of.

********, we'll have enough good players for WJC, who won't be invited by Bragin just because they aren't his type of players. Someone with a better hockey sense would be able to build another Russian team, which would compete on the highest level.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

Ah, yet another friendly Canadian with a free lecture on the fine points of hockey (I assume its free). You missed my point altogether. I'm talking about Soviet-style hockey, whose focus is on recruiting and training the best prospects with advanced scientific techniques such as muscle memory and overcompensation, with intense training and conditioning that makes execution of the science of sport possible. Its not just a matter of "team tactics" and "behind the bench coaching," like they do in the NHL. I'm talking about something well beyond that, that everyone who ever played for Viktor Tikhonov can publish a book on. When Soviet teams played teams of the caliber of Team Canada today, they would beat them by 7- or 8-1. I'm talking more about that.

but they probably won't since 'business rules' - all the players are in the KHL and they don't train regularly there like they did in Soviet times. They have their standard games vs. other teams, so they don't tend to improve.

 

[Fantomas]

I agree with you. I would love to see Soviet hockey come back, but there would have to be special circumstances to make that possible.

It would require the end of capitalism in Russia.

 

[Fantomas]

Bragin is like Znarok, just worse. We need someone to coach Soviet hockey back.

This is not a coaching problem. It's a systemic problem.

No coach can polish a turd into a diamond.

 

[BlitzSnipe]

This is not a coaching problem. It's a systemic problem.

No coach can polish a turd into a diamond.

Well, Team Russia is not a turd by any means. Our D remains our main problem though, plus physical conditioning which becomes apparent against Canada.

 

[kp61c]

Panarin, Kuznetsov and Kucherov line looks great at the tournament, and they all are NHLers. We don't need the whole KHL roster to play Soviet hockey style, we need a proper coaching and players.

We'll have more and more good players in the future, because hockey is on the rise in Russia, so we need good coaches.

almost all russian teams of various age groups i've watched for the last 5 years looked like they tried imitating some Brownian motion. no system, no skill, no brains. just painful to watch. i don't see any rise. stagnating and dergading is more like it.

 

[Yakushev72]

It would require the end of capitalism in Russia.

I don't think so. In the Soviet era, the "Champions League" co-existed with the national team - in fact served as a training ground for new prospects, over a 48-game league schedule. It could be done again, but Capitalism would have to play a part by offering team selections salaries and benefits large enough to lure them away from the NHL. It could be done, I believe, but I'm not exactly holding my breath either.

 

[jimstark]

Been staing away this forum fore some hours just to keep a litle distant from the game today and then take another look at it

Reading all the post now i have only one thing to say :

Come on guys it was 20 min and sadly we took yet again a lot of penalties that took out some energy as it does. Belov beeing out for 12 min did not help either..20 min... we should have won this and all the post would have been about Znarok got the best of them , the KHL won against the NHL and Vasi is the best goalie and so on....think about how different this post would have been

My last reply this year is this :

Russia played for the most part very good and to me our deffence showed huge improvment and also knowing there are young guys coming up the next years it looks very promising
Znarok did very vell with our checking line Telegin and he understand that type of a line is nessesary
The few players with took from NHL did very well Panarin and Kucherov and fitted perfect with the rest of the team
This loss feels really bad but not in the same way like the 2 prevois years...now you just feel that they was better and should have won while last years you just know they were not god enough espesially because of our deffence
I see som Russian posters show very respect for Canada beeing better but i dont see it that way...as said earlier today i am still surpriced to see this Russian team not beating them today. They did not scare me.
Have to say this and dont remember which players said it from Russia but some guys said that " we become nervouse in the 3 periode " If this is true there are som issues that need to be fixed because on this level you should not go out with a 2-0 lead having to play 20 min more and all of a sudden become nervouse..this is maybe on Znarok not doing the right think before the last periode i dont know...
I leave you guys with a good feeling maybe sounding a litle bit strange but i truly belive that Russia now after the Ovi area will do better and that we will win the Olympic and next WC beeing with Znarok or a new coach which maybe is a good thing bringing in something New
Russia will be back, there are positive things happening and there are just to much talent for this team to not come back even if its ofcourse very frustrating right now

Tomorow Sweden will win and it will feels good
Have a Nice summer everyone never give up

 

[karlstegger]

Been staing away this forum fore some hours just to keep a litle distant from the game today and then take another look at it

Reading all the post now i have only one thing to say :

Come on guys it was 20 min and sadly we took yet again a lot of penalties that took out some energy as it does. Belov beeing out for 12 min did not help either..20 min... we should have won this and all the post would have been about Znarok got the best of them , the KHL won against the NHL and Vasi is the best goalie and so on....think about how different this post would have been

My last reply this year is this :

Russia played for the most part very good and to me our deffence showed huge improvment and also knowing there are young guys coming up the next years it looks very promising
Znarok did very vell with our checking line Telegin and he understand that type of a line is nessesary
The few players with took from NHL did very well Panarin and Kucherov and fitted perfect with the rest of the team
This loss feels really bad but not in the same way like the 2 prevois years...now you just feel that they was better and should have won while last years you just know they were not god enough espesially because of our deffence
I see som Russian posters show very respect for Canada beeing better but i dont see it that way...as said earlier today i am still surpriced to see this Russian team not beating them today. They did not scare me.
Have to say this and dont remember which players said it from Russia but some guys said that " we become nervouse in the 3 periode " If this is true there are som issues that need to be fixed because on this level you should not go out with a 2-0 lead having to play 20 min more and all of a sudden become nervouse..this is maybe on Znarok not doing the right think before the last periode i dont know...
I leave you guys with a good feeling maybe sounding a litle bit strange but i truly belive that Russia now after the Ovi area will do better and that we will win the Olympic and next WC beeing with Znarok or a new coach which maybe is a good thing bringing in something New
Russia will be back, there are positive things happening and there are just to much talent for this team to not come back even if its ofcourse very frustrating right now

Tomorow Sweden will win and it will feels good
Have a Nice summer everyone never give up

Lol mate..... your insecurity on behalf of Russia is embarassing. If Sweden beat Canada everything is ok? The hate for Canada should not mean more than what your own team accomplish.

 

[jimstark]

Where did i say i hate Canada ? I am from Norway so when Russia it out i root for my neighbour Sweden them meeting Canada or another team.
Go to sleep mate