“Earn your success”? Grow up. Winnipeg earned their success more than any other team in the NHL. They drafted Scheifele 7th overall when everyone else had him in the mid-late teens. They took so much abuse for that pick. They drafted almost their entire team. Instead of trying to outsmart everyone else (cough Sharks cough) they simply took the obvious BPAs in their drafts. Trouba, Ehlers, Morrisey, and Connor are all better than half the players drafted before them. They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers and mediocre futures when most people (including myself) thought it was a bad trade. They gave Matthieu Perreault a real chance when everyone else was ****ing around. They were patient developed a great young starting goalie in Hellebyuck. They let go of Ladd at the right time instead of giving him a massive contract. They never wasted assets at the deadline when they were a bubble team but made a savvy trade for Stastny when they finally looked like contenders. And yeah, Bufuglien is a good defenseman. You don’t have to like him to admit that.
Sure, falling ass-backwards into Laine was great luck. But Winnipeg is so, so, so much more than Laine. And let’s say they didn’t have Laine. Let’s say they drafted at 6th overall like the were originally. With how Winnipeg drafts, they’d still have come out with Keller or Tkachuk. Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace (just ten points less than Laine) this year without playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, and Keller scored 65 points (just five less than Laine) on ****ing Arizona. I bet they’d still be sitting pretty in the WCF this season even if they had Keller or Tkachuk instead of Laine.
Winnipeg is the embodiment of everything I wish the Sharks were. They are smart, they run their team right, and they earned the hell out of their stars.
Their fans are incredibly annoying. That’s just about the only thing you have right.
Wow. Why are you so testy about that? It seems pretty unnecessary to fire some of those shots at Bailey (ie "grow up") just because you don't like the opinion.
“Earn your success”? Grow up. Winnipeg earned their success more than any other team in the NHL. They drafted Scheifele 7th overall when everyone else had him in the mid-late teens. They took so much abuse for that pick. They drafted almost their entire team. Instead of trying to outsmart everyone else (cough Sharks cough) they simply took the obvious BPAs in their drafts. Trouba, Ehlers, Morrisey, and Connor are all better than half the players drafted before them. They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers and mediocre futures when most people (including myself) thought it was a bad trade. They gave Matthieu Perreault a real chance when everyone else was ****ing around. They were patient and developed a great young starting goalie in Hellebuyck. They let go of Ladd at the right time instead of giving him a massive contract. They never wasted assets at the deadline when they were a bubble team but made a savvy trade for Stastny when they finally looked like contenders. And yeah, Byfuglien is a good defenseman. You don’t have to like him to admit that.
Sure, falling ass-backwards into Laine was great luck. But Winnipeg is so, so, so much more than Laine. And let’s say they didn’t have Laine. Let’s say they drafted at 6th overall like they were originally. With how Winnipeg drafts, they’d still have come out with Keller or Tkachuk. Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace (just ten points less than Laine) this year without playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, and Keller scored 65 points (just five less than Laine) on ****ing Arizona. I bet they’d still be sitting pretty in the WCF this season even if they had Keller or Tkachuk instead of Laine.
Winnipeg is the embodiment of everything I wish the Sharks were. They are smart, they run their team right, and they earned the hell out of their stars.
Their fans are incredibly annoying. That’s just about the only thing you have right.
He’s the one who called the draft “welfare on ice” and I’m the one that’s testy?
Okay fine. It's a bit of a testy comment. My bad. It's just really irritating to sit on the sidelines to watch another cupless franchise potentially get their first. Again.“Earn your success”? Grow up. Winnipeg earned their success more than any other team in the NHL. They drafted Scheifele 7th overall when everyone else had him in the mid-late teens. They took so much abuse for that pick. They drafted almost their entire team. Instead of trying to outsmart everyone else (cough Sharks cough) they simply took the obvious BPAs in their drafts. Trouba, Ehlers, Morrisey, and Connor are all better than half the players drafted before them. They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers and mediocre futures when most people (including myself) thought it was a bad trade. They gave Matthieu Perreault a real chance when everyone else was ****ing around. They were patient and developed a great young starting goalie in Hellebuyck. They let go of Ladd at the right time instead of giving him a massive contract. They never wasted assets at the deadline when they were a bubble team but made a savvy trade for Stastny when they finally looked like contenders. And yeah, Byfuglien is a good defenseman. You don’t have to like him to admit that.
Sure, falling ass-backwards into Laine was great luck. But Winnipeg is so, so, so much more than Laine. And let’s say they didn’t have Laine. Let’s say they drafted at 6th overall like they were originally. With how Winnipeg drafts, they’d still have come out with Keller or Tkachuk. Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace (just ten points less than Laine) this year without playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, and Keller scored 65 points (just five less than Laine) on ****ing Arizona. I bet they’d still be sitting pretty in the WCF this season even if they had Keller or Tkachuk instead of Laine.
Winnipeg is the embodiment of everything I wish the Sharks were. They are smart, they run their team right, and they earned the hell out of their stars.
Their fans are incredibly annoying. That’s just about the only thing you have right.
Okay fine. It's a bit of a testy comment. My bad. It's just really irritating to sit on the sidelines to watch another Duplass franchise get their first. Again.
Considering one comment violates the conduct rules of the site (and basic interpersonal decency) and the other doesn't.... yes. Hot takes are not the same as directed insults.
Okay fine. It's a bit of a testy comment. My bad. It's just really irritating to sit on the sidelines to watch another cupless franchise potentially get their first. Again.
Saying “grow up” is against the rules of this board? Genuinely news to me.
I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.Yup. Winnipeg winning with a truly dominant season and a Stanley Cup win in a year where there are plenty of contenders would also disprove the tank model; Winnipeg would become only the second team in the last decade that didn't have top-5 draft picks in back-to-back years.
I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.
I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.
To a certain degree, yes, but outside of Laine, none of those guys are top-5 picks, and they didn't earn the Laine pick. It's not as if they were egregiously terrible in any particular season. They tried to make the playoffs every year and usually just missed because of injuries or bad luck. At the end of the day, they got picks around 7-16 and made them work. Schiefele, Ehlers, and Connor were fantastic picks.
I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.
It doesn't really disprove it. It validates the general tank-related concept that it's better to build through the draft than through free agency, but the Jets weren't constantly picking top 5 in a manner that tanking implies so it can't really make any statements towards tanking.
Jets 2.0's draft history is picking at:
7th (scheifele)
9th (Trouba)
13th (Morrisey)
9th (Ehlers)
17th/25th (Connor/Roslovic)
2nd/18th (Laine/Stanley*)
24th (Vesalainen*)
*not yet in the NHL
They've basically largely picked in and around what most people would call the "treadmill" range of teams not good enough to make serious playoff noise (or make it at all) but not bad enough to draft at the highest end of the round.
They've done well because they've been good at picking guys and also lucky enough to hit on a few mid/late 1st guys being better than expected and the gift of a single uber-high pick in Laine.
They're kinda the Golden State of the NHL in that regard, the kinda-not-really-tanking team that hit just the right combo of home runs to negate not being a pure and 'proper' tank team.
If anything, the Oilers may have done more to 'disprove' tanking by utterly failing at it. But even that is kinda tenuous because a theory need not survive every challenge, just hold true often enough to be reliable.
There’s an entire board of sharks fan right here who only drink alcohol, so that theory goes right out the window.Just so we’re clear here, no one team losing can disprove the tank model. The tank model is based on the fact that 8 of the last 9 Stanley Cup winners had back to back top-5 draft picks that helped them win, and the one team that didn’t was extremely unsustainable and basically a giant fluke. What this tells us is that in order to build a consistent Stanley Cup Contender, and win Stanley Cups without massive flukes, you need to be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for two years in a row.
If you were to try and disprove the theory that humans must drink water in order to survive, you would need to find humans that did not drink any water and survived. Finding a human that did drink water and still died would not disprove anything.
Just so we’re clear here, no one team losing can disprove the tank model. The tank model is based on the fact that 8 of the last 9 Stanley Cup winners had back to back top-5 draft picks that helped them win, and the one team that didn’t was extremely unsustainable and basically a giant fluke. What this tells us is that in order to build a consistent Stanley Cup Contender, and win Stanley Cups without massive flukes, you need to be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for two years in a row.
If you were to try and disprove the theory that humans must drink water in order to survive, you would need to find humans that did not drink any water and survived. Finding a human that did drink water and still died would not disprove anything.