GDT: 2017-18 Other Playoff Games

[The Nemesis]

Also Patrik Laine needs to cut his stupid amish hobo beard. Otherwise someone might think he's an illegal alien and ship him back to Oregon.

 

[The Nemesis]

“Earn your success”? Grow up. Winnipeg earned their success more than any other team in the NHL. They drafted Scheifele 7th overall when everyone else had him in the mid-late teens. They took so much abuse for that pick. They drafted almost their entire team. Instead of trying to outsmart everyone else (cough Sharks cough) they simply took the obvious BPAs in their drafts. Trouba, Ehlers, Morrisey, and Connor are all better than half the players drafted before them. They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers and mediocre futures when most people (including myself) thought it was a bad trade. They gave Matthieu Perreault a real chance when everyone else was ****ing around. They were patient developed a great young starting goalie in Hellebyuck. They let go of Ladd at the right time instead of giving him a massive contract. They never wasted assets at the deadline when they were a bubble team but made a savvy trade for Stastny when they finally looked like contenders. And yeah, Bufuglien is a good defenseman. You don’t have to like him to admit that.

Sure, falling ass-backwards into Laine was great luck. But Winnipeg is so, so, so much more than Laine. And let’s say they didn’t have Laine. Let’s say they drafted at 6th overall like the were originally. With how Winnipeg drafts, they’d still have come out with Keller or Tkachuk. Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace (just ten points less than Laine) this year without playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, and Keller scored 65 points (just five less than Laine) on ****ing Arizona. I bet they’d still be sitting pretty in the WCF this season even if they had Keller or Tkachuk instead of Laine.

Winnipeg is the embodiment of everything I wish the Sharks were. They are smart, they run their team right, and they earned the hell out of their stars.

Their fans are incredibly annoying. That’s just about the only thing you have right.

Wow. Why are you so testy about that? It seems pretty unnecessary to fire some of those shots at Bailey (ie "grow up") just because you don't like the opinion.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Wow. Why are you so testy about that? It seems pretty unnecessary to fire some of those shots at Bailey (ie "grow up") just because you don't like the opinion.

He’s the one who called the draft “welfare on ice” and I’m the one that’s testy?

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

“Earn your success”? Grow up. Winnipeg earned their success more than any other team in the NHL. They drafted Scheifele 7th overall when everyone else had him in the mid-late teens. They took so much abuse for that pick. They drafted almost their entire team. Instead of trying to outsmart everyone else (cough Sharks cough) they simply took the obvious BPAs in their drafts. Trouba, Ehlers, Morrisey, and Connor are all better than half the players drafted before them. They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers and mediocre futures when most people (including myself) thought it was a bad trade. They gave Matthieu Perreault a real chance when everyone else was ****ing around. They were patient and developed a great young starting goalie in Hellebuyck. They let go of Ladd at the right time instead of giving him a massive contract. They never wasted assets at the deadline when they were a bubble team but made a savvy trade for Stastny when they finally looked like contenders. And yeah, Byfuglien is a good defenseman. You don’t have to like him to admit that.

Sure, falling ass-backwards into Laine was great luck. But Winnipeg is so, so, so much more than Laine. And let’s say they didn’t have Laine. Let’s say they drafted at 6th overall like they were originally. With how Winnipeg drafts, they’d still have come out with Keller or Tkachuk. Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace (just ten points less than Laine) this year without playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, and Keller scored 65 points (just five less than Laine) on ****ing Arizona. I bet they’d still be sitting pretty in the WCF this season even if they had Keller or Tkachuk instead of Laine.

Winnipeg is the embodiment of everything I wish the Sharks were. They are smart, they run their team right, and they earned the hell out of their stars.

Their fans are incredibly annoying. That’s just about the only thing you have right.

Yup. Winnipeg winning with a truly dominant season and a Stanley Cup win in a year where there are plenty of contenders would also disprove the tank model; Winnipeg would become only the second team in the last decade that didn't have top-5 draft picks in back-to-back years.

To be fair, though, Paul Maurice has made quite a few poor decisions. But otherwise I agree that they pretty much have a model organization.

 

[JackSkellington]

I can’t believe we f***ing lost to Vegas, hope DW makes major moves this summer. This playoff failure irks me a lot for the reason we lost to a damn expansion team with 1 f***ing line and now I gotta watch Winnipeg make it look easy. This team needs a got damn cup before I get too old to be able to celebrate

 

[The Nemesis]

He’s the one who called the draft “welfare on ice” and I’m the one that’s testy?

Considering one comment violates the conduct rules of the site (and basic interpersonal decency) and the other doesn't.... yes. Hot takes are not the same as directed insults.

 

[Used As A Shield]

vegas is playing way more conservatively, not all vacating the zone at first chance

 

[BaileyMacTavish]

“Earn your success”? Grow up. Winnipeg earned their success more than any other team in the NHL. They drafted Scheifele 7th overall when everyone else had him in the mid-late teens. They took so much abuse for that pick. They drafted almost their entire team. Instead of trying to outsmart everyone else (cough Sharks cough) they simply took the obvious BPAs in their drafts. Trouba, Ehlers, Morrisey, and Connor are all better than half the players drafted before them. They traded Kane and Bogosian for Myers and mediocre futures when most people (including myself) thought it was a bad trade. They gave Matthieu Perreault a real chance when everyone else was ****ing around. They were patient and developed a great young starting goalie in Hellebuyck. They let go of Ladd at the right time instead of giving him a massive contract. They never wasted assets at the deadline when they were a bubble team but made a savvy trade for Stastny when they finally looked like contenders. And yeah, Byfuglien is a good defenseman. You don’t have to like him to admit that.

Sure, falling ass-backwards into Laine was great luck. But Winnipeg is so, so, so much more than Laine. And let’s say they didn’t have Laine. Let’s say they drafted at 6th overall like they were originally. With how Winnipeg drafts, they’d still have come out with Keller or Tkachuk. Tkachuk scored at a 60 point pace (just ten points less than Laine) this year without playing with Monahan and Gaudreau, and Keller scored 65 points (just five less than Laine) on ****ing Arizona. I bet they’d still be sitting pretty in the WCF this season even if they had Keller or Tkachuk instead of Laine.

Winnipeg is the embodiment of everything I wish the Sharks were. They are smart, they run their team right, and they earned the hell out of their stars.

Their fans are incredibly annoying. That’s just about the only thing you have right.

Okay fine. It's a bit of a testy comment. My bad. It's just really irritating to sit on the sidelines to watch another cupless franchise potentially get their first. Again.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Okay fine. It's a bit of a testy comment. My bad. It's just really irritating to sit on the sidelines to watch another Duplass franchise get their first. Again.

I still think Tampa is going to win the Stanley Cup this year.

 

[Friday]

Who's more lovable, James Neal or Ryan Reaves?

 

[Juxtaposer]

Considering one comment violates the conduct rules of the site (and basic interpersonal decency) and the other doesn't.... yes. Hot takes are not the same as directed insults.

Saying “grow up” is against the rules of this board? Genuinely news to me.

Okay fine. It's a bit of a testy comment. My bad. It's just really irritating to sit on the sidelines to watch another cupless franchise potentially get their first. Again.

See? There we go. All is forgiven, man. That’s totally understandable. I’m just jealous of the Jets is all.

 

[Alwalys]

amazing what happens when the bounces don't land on vegas' stick

 

[slocal]

Goosfraba...

 

[The Nemesis]

Saying “grow up” is against the rules of this board? Genuinely news to me.

Directly attacking someone because you didn't like something they said is against the rules of the board. This should not be news. Nor should it be necessary to clarify every potential comment.

Is the comment making an issue of the poster themselves rather than the content of the post?
If yes, it's against the rules.

I don't really see how you could presume that telling someone to grow up wouldn't be against the rules since saying so in no way actually addresses the content of the post as much as it makes a value judgement about the person making said comment.

 

[Alwalys]

Yup. Winnipeg winning with a truly dominant season and a Stanley Cup win in a year where there are plenty of contenders would also disprove the tank model; Winnipeg would become only the second team in the last decade that didn't have top-5 draft picks in back-to-back years.

I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.

To a certain degree, yes, but outside of Laine, none of those guys are top-5 picks, and they didn't earn the Laine pick. It's not as if they were egregiously terrible in any particular season. They tried to make the playoffs every year and usually just missed because of injuries or bad luck. At the end of the day, they got picks around 7-16 and made them work. Schiefele, Ehlers, and Connor were fantastic picks.

 

[Friday]

I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.

That Laine guy was worth it though

 

[Alwalys]

To a certain degree, yes, but outside of Laine, none of those guys are top-5 picks, and they didn't earn the Laine pick. It's not as if they were egregiously terrible in any particular season. They tried to make the playoffs every year and usually just missed because of injuries or bad luck. At the end of the day, they got picks around 7-16 and made them work. Schiefele, Ehlers, and Connor were fantastic picks.

well wheeler is a #5 though they didn't draft him. i dunno when's the last time we picked top 10? imagine our team with 4 couture/meier level guys?

 

[The Nemesis]

I guess it disproves the full tank model but the team is stacked with high draft pick talent. So they are indeed being rewarded for sucking.

It doesn't really disprove it. It validates the general tank-related concept that it's better to build through the draft than through free agency, but the Jets weren't constantly picking top 5 in a manner that tanking implies so it can't really make any statements towards tanking.

Jets 2.0's draft history is picking at:

7th (scheifele)
9th (Trouba)
13th (Morrisey)
9th (Ehlers)
17th/25th (Connor/Roslovic)
2nd/18th (Laine/Stanley*)
24th (Vesalainen*)
*not yet in the NHL

They've basically largely picked in and around what most people would call the "treadmill" range of teams not good enough to make serious playoff noise (or make it at all) but not bad enough to draft at the highest end of the round.

They've done well because they've been good at picking guys and also lucky enough to hit on a few mid/late 1st guys being better than expected and the gift of a single uber-high pick in Laine.

They're kinda the Golden State of the NHL in that regard, the kinda-not-really-tanking team that hit just the right combo of home runs to negate not being a pure and 'proper' tank team.

If anything, the Oilers may have done more to 'disprove' tanking by utterly failing at it. But even that is kinda tenuous because a theory need not survive every challenge, just hold true often enough to be reliable.

 

[Alwalys]

uh most of those guys are early first rounders ... the top third of the round has to be considered early. 13th is still pretty early, 17th is still in the middle third. none of those are really late 1st.
the jets are stuffed with 1st round talent.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

It doesn't really disprove it. It validates the general tank-related concept that it's better to build through the draft than through free agency, but the Jets weren't constantly picking top 5 in a manner that tanking implies so it can't really make any statements towards tanking.

Jets 2.0's draft history is picking at:

7th (scheifele)
9th (Trouba)
13th (Morrisey)
9th (Ehlers)
17th/25th (Connor/Roslovic)
2nd/18th (Laine/Stanley*)
24th (Vesalainen*)
*not yet in the NHL

They've basically largely picked in and around what most people would call the "treadmill" range of teams not good enough to make serious playoff noise (or make it at all) but not bad enough to draft at the highest end of the round.

They've done well because they've been good at picking guys and also lucky enough to hit on a few mid/late 1st guys being better than expected and the gift of a single uber-high pick in Laine.

They're kinda the Golden State of the NHL in that regard, the kinda-not-really-tanking team that hit just the right combo of home runs to negate not being a pure and 'proper' tank team.

If anything, the Oilers may have done more to 'disprove' tanking by utterly failing at it. But even that is kinda tenuous because a theory need not survive every challenge, just hold true often enough to be reliable.

Just so we’re clear here, no one team losing can disprove the tank model. The tank model is based on the fact that 8 of the last 9 Stanley Cup winners had back to back top-5 draft picks that helped them win, and the one team that didn’t was extremely unsustainable and basically a giant fluke. What this tells us is that in order to build a consistent Stanley Cup Contender, and win Stanley Cups without massive flukes, you need to be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for two years in a row.

If you were to try and disprove the theory that humans must drink water in order to survive, you would need to find humans that did not drink any water and survived. Finding a human that did drink water and still died would not disprove anything.

 

[Lebanezer]

Just so we’re clear here, no one team losing can disprove the tank model. The tank model is based on the fact that 8 of the last 9 Stanley Cup winners had back to back top-5 draft picks that helped them win, and the one team that didn’t was extremely unsustainable and basically a giant fluke. What this tells us is that in order to build a consistent Stanley Cup Contender, and win Stanley Cups without massive flukes, you need to be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for two years in a row.

If you were to try and disprove the theory that humans must drink water in order to survive, you would need to find humans that did not drink any water and survived. Finding a human that did drink water and still died would not disprove anything.

There’s an entire board of sharks fan right here who only drink alcohol, so that theory goes right out the window.

 

[Friday]

Would be so fun to tank for 3 years and come out like a phoenix and win the cup. Oh well haha heres to always getting 7/8/9th and never picking high but always being "competitive"

 

[The Nemesis]

Just so we’re clear here, no one team losing can disprove the tank model. The tank model is based on the fact that 8 of the last 9 Stanley Cup winners had back to back top-5 draft picks that helped them win, and the one team that didn’t was extremely unsustainable and basically a giant fluke. What this tells us is that in order to build a consistent Stanley Cup Contender, and win Stanley Cups without massive flukes, you need to be one of the 5 worst teams in the NHL for two years in a row.

If you were to try and disprove the theory that humans must drink water in order to survive, you would need to find humans that did not drink any water and survived. Finding a human that did drink water and still died would not disprove anything.

To the first part (no one team can disprove the tank model) yes. The Jets may be the proverbial exception that proves the rule. Who knows at this point. They kinda need to actually win the cup to tick off all the boxes necessary to qualifying for this thesis.

To the rest of it (validating the tanking model), it's a lot harder case to make because even "8 of the 9 most recent teams" is potentially flawed as evidence because that includes multiple repeat teams. It's difficult to say with any degree of certainty that those teams might not have other factors in play beyond tanking (like, say, Pittsburgh. How much of their success is predicated on Crosby in particular? His presence as one of the defining ultra-star players of his generation could, for all we know, be covering for deficiencies or holes in the rest of their team that are present even accounting for their 'tanking period.'). Ideally we need a broader data set to draw a proper conclusion from. Perhaps we need a better look at tanking teams regular season performance vs the playoffs to see if their success rate in the playoffs is any better than non-tanking teams or if they're succeeding on volume (holding longer contiguous playoff windows gives them more kicks at the can and thus better odds that sooner or later they'll break through. This would be the sort of thing that the Sharks' extended championship drought would cause them to show up as a massive outlier.)

 

[Friday]

Just think about how much fun a tank would be on this board, you guys love this stuff. The sky is falling people would have so much more to talk about. Demelo could be the goat in this situation, when losing games is valuable. We'd have blast talking about drafting players 6 months before the draft.