2017-18 Champions Hockey League

[Jablkon]

That is what I have been saying all the time ..... are all clubs on the same boat? If not, is the CHL leadership strong enough to persuade (more diplomatic word than force) all the clubs to develop the CHL? Etc etc ...

And how do you want to find out how many clubs are in? I am more demotivated just because all that statements here and from some players presumming that their opponent did not play for full throtle. This is just such simple logic that I can not believe somebody can have such destructive attitude.

I wouldnt even go to my hometeam match against Barcelona if I knew they would play for 50%. Still some teams, players etc behave like complete idiots basically telling you "dont go to the stadium, we are not sure if we push it or not...." WTF? Thats just frustrating utter unprofessionalism that it does not worth any more comments. Just one f***ing Hradec Kralove came from nowhere making a mess around. Firstly critized CHL and later speaking about Bern not being involved. Just shut up or dont play it. Valid for all teams.

And we have to listen excuses like "such a bad project etc. we have just 6000 spectators.."...Bla bla bla, its a good project, just f***ing play for 100% and people will come. Simple as that. Swedes and finns dont attend these games because they have 2x or 3x more draftees than third czechs notwistanding the rest. Understandable. Still their clubs are playing. Just euro superpowers like czech Hradec mighty Kralove or, if its true, "full house" swiss Bern from country waiting 30 years for some success, have an issue with it. hats down.

 

[vorky]

And how do you want to find out how many clubs are in? I am more demotivated just because all that statements here and from some players presumming that their opponent did not play for full throtle. This is just such simple logic that I can not believe somebody can have such destructive attitude.

I wouldnt even go to my hometeam match against Barcelona if I knew they would play for 50%. Still some teams, players etc behave like complete idiots basically telling you "dont go to the stadium, we are not sure if we push it or not...." WTF? Thats just frustrating utter unprofessionalism that it does not worth any more comments. Just one ****ing Hradec Kralove came from nowhere making a mess around. Firstly critized CHL and later speaking about Bern not being involved. Just shut up or dont play it. Valid for all teams.

And we have to listen excuses like "such a bad project etc. we have just 6000 spectators.."...Bla bla bla, its a good project, just ****ing play for 100% and people will come. Simple as that. Swedes and finns dont attend these games because they have 2x or 3x more draftees than third czechs notwistanding the rest. Understandable. Still their clubs are playing. Just euro superpowers like czech Hradec mighty Kralove or, if its true, "full house" swiss Bern from country waiting 30 years for some success, have an issue with it. hats down.

I do not need to find out how many clubs are in. That a job of the CHL leadership, they run the league. I just care about the future of the project.

It is one thing when a KHLer says the refs is bad.... and another when a player says "we do not play the CHL for 100%". It is about the respect of a league, their position on the market. If clubs and players do not take the CHL seriously, then we have a problem. And we can ask - can the CHL develop into respected and strong league? If yes, good. If not, do we need such "unwanting" league?

 

[Jablkon]

I do not need to find out how many clubs are in. That a job of the CHL leadership, they run the league. I just care about the future of the project.

It is one thing when a KHLer says the refs is bad.... and another when a player says "we do not play the CHL for 100%". It is about the respect of a league, their position on the market. If clubs and players do not take the CHL seriously, then we have a problem. And we can ask - can the CHL develop into respected and strong league? If yes, good. If not, do we need such "unwanting" league?

We dont need unwanted league. CHL management should try to find a way helping to calm down and sort out the situation. I can imagine several meetings with clubs to confirm the status of the league. But everybody know that sponzors will come just to proven set up project. Once you start undermining it from the bottom, you can hardly do anything with it. You need good games, high quality hockey and fans will come. Once fans appear, sponzors will come. I didnt expect such a consequence but this saga apparently has big impact at least on attendence in Czech Republic. The attendance droped for almost 2000 people after that interview.

So I agree they should make some preassure on teams right now, in best case scenario make them revise their statements.

Worst thing is that this utter shit just comming from Hradec Kralove managers or players. This team just wants to be famous across the Europe.

 

[Jablkon]

I am definitely impressed by the Brits. They did play well !! and while you could argue that beating SCB and Zug was a surprise, Vaxjo and TPS is a confirmation. And on both sides. So hard work and good job.

As per the Swiss teams ... i am not too worried. We hardcore fans, want them to win ... but it is not important. Money is small and they don't want to have injured players. Last year, this is why the stopped playing well when it became too physical. The focus is the national league ... of course. Still ... it gets on my nerves. ;-)

Hradec Kralove player said about Bern guys they didnt play physical. Basically confirmed what you said. It's quite funny, that obviously the biggest issues have teams from Switzerland and Czech Republic. Czechs who right now celebrate massive "success" of Jan Rutta,NEcas and Chytil making NHl rosters from Czech league after not being able to bring straight anybody except Hertl in last ten years. Swiss league which proved to be behing SEL and FEL and does not produce basically anybody. Exactly these two leagues should have issues with it. Funny.

 

[vorky]

We dont need unwanted league. CHL management should try to find a way helping to calm down and sort out the situation. I can imagine several meetings with clubs to confirm the status of the league. But everybody know that sponzors will come just to proven set up project. Once you start undermining it from the bottom, you can hardly do anything with it. You need good games, high quality hockey and fans will come. Once fans appear, sponzors will come. I didnt expect such a consequence but this saga apparently has big impact at least on attendence in Czech Republic. The attendance droped for almost 2000 people after that interview.

So I agree they should make some preassure on teams right now, in best case scenario make them revise their statements.

Worst thing is that this utter **** just comming from Hradec Kralove managers or players. This team just wants to be famous across the Europe.

Ad "several meetings with clubs to confirm the status of the league." Yes, can happen & it would be understandable next step. But if happens ... the CHL will discuss about topic which should be clear to everyone. Instead of developing of the CHL (to improve attendance, coverage, the product as a whole), they will discuss - according to your offer - if they need/want the CHL. Weird.

I do not think that statement of one club can influence all teams. Yes, one club, MHK, can say something to media. But you need other clubs to join if you want to influence all CHL. Maybe some other clubs agree with MHK´s position, they just do not speak to media.

Trinec, Vitkovice, Zlin, Olomouc, Pardubice & Mountfield HK are not members of the E.H.C. Alliance, which is run by the same people as the CHL. Vitkovice & Pardubice were founding members of the CHL.

 

[vorky]

Hradec Kralove player said about Bern guys they didnt play physical. Basically confirmed what you said. It's quite funny, that obviously the biggest issues have teams from Switzerland and Czech Republic. Czechs who right now celebrate massive "success" of Jan Rutta,NEcas and Chytil making NHl rosters from Czech league after not being able to bring straight anybody except Hertl in last ten years. Swiss league which proved to be behing SEL and FEL and does not produce basically anybody. Exactly these two leagues should have issues with it. Funny.

I would not be so harsh on Swiss and Czechs. Read what happened in Växjö, Sweden.

Växjö had nothing to play for and sent a team without the first line and a bunch of juniors. Still, our pride was at stake and plenty of fans were pissed yesterday as it felt like they embarrassed us.

And they did

 

[Jablkon]

I would not be so harsh on Swiss and Czechs. Read what happened in Växjö, Sweden.

Vaxjo already advanced if I am correct so I understand to that to some extent. Problem comes when I for example enjoying Sparta Bern match in last playoff and I am not still sure if they took it seriously or not. Under that circumstances I dont need to go to watch them again. Why should I? Same is going for any other team.

Second thing is, and considering CHL situation, more ridiculous, that there are clubs like Kometa Brno and Hradec Kralove whose fanbase would be definetely in. Just their neutral or negative attitude prevent them to come. Same basically went for Zlin. These people just dont take responsibility for their behaviour. You dont want Euro tourney, ok, but put your name behind the cancell of this league. Everybody can cry and criticize.

I am just pissed off because in Sweden and Finnland they have issues of succesfull CHL teams not being able to attract fans because they kick a shit out of all other teams.

And then it sure must be something special in Czech case where noname teams plays like crap, discourage its our fans and even critize entire project.

To be honest similar can go for NLA to some extent (if its really a case as some posters here try to imply). League which had an aura of third best in Europe investing hell of money to foreign coaches etc, which became proven in CHL to be far behind finns and does not produce any NHL talent at all.

This is like if Sparta Prague and FC Basel criticized soccer champions league while AC Milan would try to sort out how to fill up the stadium against Sparta and Basel.

Neither czechs nor swiss guys look to be entitled to undermine this project but I can live with it. Some people just dont have any self reflection.

 

[Jablkon]

I dont really care which club makes statement or which not. I am a hockey fan and I wanted to see good hockey. All I am saying is that neither czech hockey nor swiss hockey is in position to avoid int. competition.

Czech junior teams are demolished by Red Bull Salzburg and swiss are stack in dark horse position for too long. If they both dont care, I dont care, I just think they are idiots. Switzerland probably think they are closer to czechs, despite its clearly not because of them, but because czechs dropping. And czechs like to live in their own shit not being able to find out any simple clear hockey development system just because they have this "positive attitude" as it is presented in CHL and austrian junior team hammers them.....ridiculous

 

[vorky]

Vaxjo already advanced if I am correct so I understand to that to some extent. Problem comes when I for example enjoying Sparta Bern match in last playoff and I am not still sure if they took it seriously or not. Under that circumstances I dont need to go to watch them again. Why should I? Same is going for any other team.

Second thing is, and considering CHL situation, more ridiculous, that there are clubs like Kometa Brno and Hradec Kralove whose fanbase would be definetely in. Just their neutral or negative attitude prevent them to come. Same basically went for Zlin. These people just dont take responsibility for their behaviour. You dont want Euro tourney, ok, but put your name behind the cancell of this league. Everybody can cry and criticize.

I am just pissed off because in Sweden and Finnland they have issues of succesfull CHL teams not being able to attract fans because they kick a **** out of all other teams.

And then it sure must be something special in Czech case where noname teams plays like crap, discourage its our fans and even critize entire project.

To be honest similar can go for NLA to some extent (if its really a case as some posters here try to imply). League which had an aura of third best in Europe investing hell of money to foreign coaches etc, which became proven in CHL to be far behind finns and does not produce any NHL talent at all.

This is like if Sparta Prague and FC Basel criticized soccer champions league while AC Milan would try to sort out how to fill up the stadium against Sparta and Basel.

Neither czechs nor swiss guys look to be entitled to undermine this project but I can live with it. Some people just dont have any self reflection.

I dont really care which club makes statement or which not. I am a hockey fan and I wanted to see good hockey. All I am saying is that neither czech hockey nor swiss hockey is in position to avoid int. competition.

Czech junior teams are demolished by Red Bull Salzburg and swiss are stack in dark horse position for too long. If they both dont care, I dont care, I just think they are idiots. Switzerland probably think they are closer to czechs, despite its clearly not because of them, but because czechs dropping. And czechs like to live in their own **** not being able to find out any simple clear hockey development system just because they have this "positive attitude" as it is presented in CHL and austrian junior team hammers them.....ridiculous

So lets look at history. The CHL is a successor of the European Trophy, both run by the same people. The European Trophy started with Finnish & Swedish teams, expanded to other countries, including Switzerland (ZSC & SCB) and Czech rep (Sparta). But a year later, 2011, no Swiss teams. Why? I do not remember it, but I guess they were not happy with it. In 2011 multiple Czech teams joined, including Mountfield Ceskej Budejovice (the same owner as Mountfield HK). In 2012 another two Swiss clubs joined, Slavia Prague witdrawed. As you can see Swiss have never been into an European tournament, Czechs have always criticised an European tournament. Similar situation as today, they play it but are not into it ...

E:
Why did they rename European Trophy to CHL? Because of noble name? If that was only reason, then it was shortsighted. How do they want fans take them seriously when they start a brand European Trophy and adopt another name within a few years? To prove they work?

 

[Jablkon]

So lets look at history. The CHL is a successor of the European Trophy, both run by the same people. The European Trophy started with Finnish & Swedish teams, expanded to other countries, including Switzerland (ZSC & SCB) and Czech rep (Sparta). But a year later, 2011, no Swiss teams. Why? I do not remember it, but I guess they were not happy with it. In 2011 multiple Czech teams joined, including Mountfield Ceskej Budejovice (the same owner as Mountfield HK). In 2012 another two Swiss clubs joined, Slavia Prague witdrawed. As you can see Swiss have never been into an European tournament, Czechs have always criticised an European tournament. Similar situation as today, they play it but are not into it ...

E:
Why did they rename European Trophy to CHL? Because of noble name? If that was only reason, then it was shortsighted. How do they want fans take them seriously when they start a brand European Trophy and adopt another name within a few years? To prove they work?

You compare apple and oranges. European trophy was basically quite a popular preseason tourney with attendance around 1000 spectators (which was considered OK by the way for preseason standard). Dont know what czechs criticised. Slavia withdrawed because such a preseason didnt fit to its coaches plan. CHL is completely different level. There is nothing special in it. JUst clubs dont know what they want. If they finally found quite a big consensus and lot of clubs are also shareholders of this project, then its just pathetic if some of the founders play below their limits or some noname clubs with no importance over the Europe are trying to undervalue this effort.

All the clubs are well awared of situation in int. club hockey. Some players and CEOs are just not well behaved.Thats all.I am not surprised after all. Czech hockey enviroment is utter mess with lot of low class simple people. Days of big czech hockey brains are done for at least last 15 years.

In that regards I have just full of respect for Litvinov which won title for first time in 50 years,had terrible season afterthat when they almost got relegated, but just shut the mouth and tried to do the best in CHL despite being demolished by Frolunda.

People just should recognize that this is the best int. euro project in last 27 years. Unfortunately some no names have the voice here....

 

[vorky]

You compare apple and oranges. European trophy was basically quite a popular preseason tourney with attendance around 1000 spectators (which was considered OK by the way for preseason standard). Dont know what czechs criticised. Slavia withdrawed because such a preseason didnt fit to its coaches plan. CHL is completely different level. There is nothing special in it. JUst clubs dont know what they want. If they finally found quite a big consensus and lot of clubs are also shareholders of this project, then its just pathetic if some of the founders play below their limits or some noname clubs with no importance over the Europe are trying to undervalue this effort.

All the clubs are well awared of situation in int. club hockey. Some players and CEOs are just not well behaved.Thats all.I am not surprised after all. Czech hockey enviroment is utter mess with lot of low class simple people. Days of big czech hockey brains are done for at least last 15 years.

In that regards I have just full of respect for Litvinov which won title for first time in 50 years,had terrible season afterthat when they almost got relegated, but just shut the mouth and tried to do the best in CHL despite being demolished by Frolunda.

People just should recognize that this is the best int. euro project in last 27 years. Unfortunately some no names have the voice here....

It is a fact that CHL is a successor of the European Trophy. And some people consider the CHL as a pre-season tournament. My point was that Swiss have never been a big fans of an European league. And some Czech clubs have always "made" problems or using other words, not being on the same boat not matter what. You criticised both Swiss and Czechs, I replied that it is not a suprise they are not so commited now.

I do not agree with your statement on best project in last 27 years. The best projects have been the KHL and the CHL 2008.

 

[Jussi]

It is a fact that CHL is a successor of the European Trophy. And some people consider the CHL as a pre-season tournament. My point was that Swiss have never been a big fans of an European league. And some Czech clubs have always "made" problems or using other words, not being on the same boat not matter what. You criticised both Swiss and Czechs, I replied that it is not a suprise they are not so commited now.

I do not agree with your statement on best project in last 27 years. The best projects have been the KHL and the CHL 2008.

Nope. Only Russia's benefitted from that, European hockey not so much.

 

[Jablkon]

You can not count 2008 CHL as it wasnt sustainable. That was a dream which obviously didnt follow reality. All these critics pointing out this 2008 like they dont want to see there are no money for something like this. Only thing they should ask themselfs is not "what is it?", "no money", but "do I want CHL to exist or not?".anything else is just plain excuse. this CHL is best you can make in Europe right now. Only hypocrits dont want to see it.

Btw its different when you are on diff boat when you win OG and three straight WHCs. We suck and these clubs havent done anything to change that direction. Being on diff boat under that circumstances is just laughable. Once they come with unique program, I wouldnt mind that attitude much. So far there is no class in that behaviour, but I am not surprised.

 

[vorky]

You can not count 2008 CHL as it wasnt sustainable. That was a dream which obviously didnt follow reality. All these critics pointing out this 2008 like they dont want to see there are no money for something like this. Only thing they should ask themselfs is not "what is it?", "no money", but "do I want CHL to exist or not?".anything else is just plain excuse. this CHL is best you can make in Europe right now. Only hypocrits dont want to see it.

Btw its different when you are on diff boat when you win OG and three straight WHCs. We suck and these clubs havent done anything to change that direction. Being on diff boat under that circumstances is just laughable. Once they come with unique program, I wouldnt mind that attitude much. So far there is no class in that behaviour, but I am not surprised.

That is your opinion.

General idea of the CHL is good, I have no problem with it. But the way how the CHL is run is terrible. You must be a dreamer to believe for better tommorow´s. It is like NHL World Cup last year, good idea, bad realisation.

 

[Jablkon]

That is your opinion.

General idea of the CHL is good, I have no problem with it. But the way how the CHL is run is terrible. You must be a dreamer to believe for better tommorow´s. It is like NHL World Cup last year, good idea, bad realisation.

So you support idea of rather not to have any competition than to have one which is financially secured but does not cover all team expenses, am I right?

I am ok with such opinion, but I dont think there is much to discuss about...

 

[Jablkon]

So you support idea of rather not to have any competition than to have one which is financially secured but does not cover all team expenses, am I right?

I am ok with such opinion, but I dont think there is much to discuss about...

Or what you mean by that "its run terribly"?

 

[vorky]

Or what you mean by that "its run terribly"?

People, still the same people who have never done anything positive for European hockey. I can start with bad NHL transfer agreement and finish with various attempts to rebirth CHL. Generally, bad managers are bad managers and always will be. Maybe it is not about people themself, but about general mentality in European hockey. Ask yourself, why every attempt to launch an international competition in European hockey has always failed? No, it is not about money. IMO it is about mentality of Euro hockey, disagreements between nations etc. Just two examples. First, Slovakia wanted to create joint league with Czechs a few years ago, or delegate a few SVK teams to Czech league. What did Czechs reply? "You are not good enough". Of course, one side is always worse, one better. But if you have a vision and will, all negative aspects can be fixed. I will use local term to describe it, "hrať sa na vlastnom piesočku", which can be translated as "we care only about us". Russias could say the same to Latvians, Kazakhs or Chinese - you are not good enough, you do not deserve a KHL team. For some reason they did not say it. Second, the KHL came with a vision, but Euros refused because a) you will ruin our domestic leagues b) you are evil Russians. The same argument of Russians was used in CHL 2008 - evil Russsians/KHL ruined CHL 2008. But, for some reason, nobody in Europe said "evil Russians want to invest 10 million EUR on prize money into CHL 2008, we Euros do not want it".

Lets be honest, CHL TV coverage is not top-notch. As I have said earlier, big gap between clubs and no vision how to fix it. I would welcome if you said me what is their vision.

The KHL´s (no)participation - it is one thing that they are not able to get the KHL into it. But why the CHL still say to media "there will be a time when the KHL realises they need to be in the CHL." Simple "we do not comment it" would be better approach. Right now the CHL looks like idiots with their comments on KHL´s participation.

IMO they still do not know what they want. Once they have licences, a few years later they introduce sport principle. And if they start discussing, as you suggested, if Europe needs the CHL ...

Lets say there is no marketing from their side. Or bad marketing as top scorer jersey. I understand, they need to promote their sponsor ...but there must be some limits. I have never heard from fans they like top scorer thing.

Money. If they are not able to secure sponsors, then there is something wrong with capability of the management. Fine, maybe European hockey is not so attractive. My point is another. As Briza said "lets do it, many Swedish companies will sponsor the CHL!" It says how bad they are in predictions. "Lets do it, sponsors will come" is not good enough argument to launch such a big project. To give you an example, Russians had plans to launch Euro-Asian League in 2005 (& earlier), but they did not do it, because they did not have financing at the time. Later they secured it.

 

[Jussi]

People, still the same people who have never done anything positive for European hockey. I can start with bad NHL transfer agreement

Lets be honest, CHL TV coverage is not top-notch. As I have said earlier, big gap between clubs and no vision how to fix it. I would welcome if you said me what is their vision.

When it comes to the NHL transfer agreement, it's abit like the Middle-East. There are not necessarily good options available, you have to pick the least worst. That applies to the NHL transfers. When the players control the market, there is virtually nothing the clubs can do to limit player movement, unless they want to try and break domestic and EU labor laws.

CHL tv coverage depends on the rights holder in each country. In Finland the rights are held by MTV (not that MTV) and while there isn't necessarily wrong with their production, apart from few games, it's hidden behind pay tv. Finnish sports fans have a saying "any sport MTV touches, turns into shit" and that is still somewhat correct.

 

[vorky]

When it comes to the NHL transfer agreement, it's abit like the Middle-East. There are not necessarily good options available, you have to pick the least worst. That applies to the NHL transfers. When the players control the market, there is virtually nothing the clubs can do to limit player movement, unless they want to try and break domestic and EU labor laws.

Great example of the mentality I am talking about. Thanks.

CHL tv coverage depends on the rights holder in each country. In Finland the rights are held by MTV (not that MTV) and while there isn't necessarily wrong with their production, apart from few games, it's hidden behind pay tv. Finnish sports fans have a saying "any sport MTV touches, turns into ****" and that is still somewhat correct.

 

[ForumNamePending]

People, still the same people who have never done anything positive for European hockey. I can start with bad NHL transfer agreement and finish with various attempts to rebirth CHL.

I would say running clubs and leagues that produce players for various national teams is a positive for European hockey. I would also say trying to build a sustainable European Cup competition which is open to any European country that wants to participate is also a positive. Beyond the obsession with transfer payments what would you consider a positive for European hockey?

Generally, bad managers are bad managers and always will be. Maybe it is not about people themself, but about general mentality in European hockey. Ask yourself, why every attempt to launch an international competition in European hockey has always failed? No, it is not about money. IMO it is about mentality of Euro hockey, disagreements between nations etc. Just two examples. First, Slovakia wanted to create joint league with Czechs a few years ago, or delegate a few SVK teams to Czech league. What did Czechs reply? "You are not good enough". Of course, one side is always worse, one better. But if you have a vision and will, all negative aspects can be fixed. I will use local term to describe it, "hrať sa na vlastnom piesočku", which can be translated as "we care only about us".

The CHL is proof that clubs from big leagues for the most part seem perfectly fine playing teams from leagues "not good enough". The fact that most/all of the big European leagues don't have much interest in fully merging with other leagues doesn't make the people running them bad managers. These managers have built some pretty successful clubs/leagues. They aren't bad managers because you disagree with them.

Russias could say the same to Latvians, Kazakhs or Chinese - you are not good enough, you do not deserve a KHL team. For some reason they did not say it. Second, the KHL came with a vision, but Euros refused because a) you will ruin our domestic leagues b) you are evil Russians. The same argument of Russians was used in CHL 2008 - evil Russians/KHL ruined CHL 2008. But, for some reason, nobody in Europe said "evil Russians want to invest 10 million EUR on prize money into CHL 2008, we Euros do not want it".

The Russians didn't say no to Latvians, Kazakhs or Chinese because Russians want their league to be a Eurasian league. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Saying no doesn't help their objective.

I would say the 2008 CHL is one of many reasons why most Europeans clubs are staying away from Russia, and the KHL. You're right, nobody in Europe said no when the "evil Russians" offered 10 million EUR in prize money, but in hindsight they would have been better off if they did say no.

Lets be honest, CHL TV coverage is not top-notch. As I have said earlier, big gap between clubs and no vision how to fix it. I would welcome if you said me what is their vision.

The KHL´s (no)participation - it is one thing that they are not able to get the KHL into it. But why the CHL still say to media "there will be a time when the KHL realises they need to be in the CHL." Simple "we do not comment it" would be better approach. Right now the CHL looks like idiots with their comments on KHL´s participation.

Agreed, the people running the CHL are already involved in running successful and popular domestic leagues, and those leagues were built without any involvement from Russia. I don't see anything wrong with saying "We would like to have the KHL involved" when asked the question, but they certainly don't need to pander to Russia or the KHL.

IMO they still do not know what they want. Once they have licences, a few years later they introduce sport principle. And if they start discussing, as you suggested, if Europe needs the CHL ...

Huh? As far as I know the CHL has done exactly what they said they would do. Right from the start they said the first three years would include "licensed" founding clubs regardless of how good they were (Side note: I understand why they did this, but I think it was a mistake), and then after that qualification would be based on solely on performance from the previous season.

Lets say there is no marketing from their side. Or bad marketing as top scorer jersey. I understand, they need to promote their sponsor ...but there must be some limits. I have never heard from fans they like top scorer thing.

I personally think the top scorer wearing a different jersey is dumb, but this isn't exactly a concept limited to the CHL. In the grand scheme of things this isn't going to make or break the tournament.

Money. If they are not able to secure sponsors, then there is something wrong with capability of the management. Fine, maybe European hockey is not so attractive. My point is another. As Briza said "lets do it, many Swedish companies will sponsor the CHL!" It says how bad they are in predictions. "Lets do it, sponsors will come" is not good enough argument to launch such a big project. To give you an example, Russians had plans to launch Euro-Asian League in 2005 (& earlier), but they did not do it, because they did not have financing at the time. Later they secured it.

Has securing sponsors been an issue? Looks like they have a long term deal with the same company that markets the IIHF WC and 11 different companies have signed on as sponsors/partners for this season. Obviously none of them come anywhere close to Gazprom spending 9 figures propping up the KHL, but unfortunately for the CHL they have to live in the real world where companies hope to get out what they put in.

 

[Jussi]

Great example of the mentality I am talking about. Thanks.

It's not a mentality, it's called the facts of life/realism. You really should recognize them already. Several posters have told them to you for years but you choose to ignore them, instead thinking that no transfer agreement at all would be better when facts have shown that the clubs really didn't think so.

 

[vorky]

I would say running clubs and leagues that produce players for various national teams is a positive for European hockey. I would also say trying to build a sustainable European Cup competition which is open to any European country that wants to participate is also a positive. Beyond the obsession with transfer payments what would you consider a positive for European hockey?

You might not agree, but everything starts with transfer rules. You will never have profitable European hockey with current mindset.

The CHL is proof that clubs from big leagues for the most part seem perfectly fine playing teams from leagues "not good enough". The fact that most/all of the big European leagues don't have much interest in fully merging with other leagues doesn't make the people running them bad managers. These managers have built some pretty successful clubs/leagues. They aren't bad managers because you disagree with them.

If all were fine, we would not have the statement.

The Russians didn't say no to Latvians, Kazakhs or Chinese because Russians want their league to be a Eurasian league. They aren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Saying no doesn't help their objective.

You did not get the point. I implied that Czechs in this case looked for problems how not to do it, Russians looked for solutions how to do it.

I would say the 2008 CHL is one of many reasons why most Europeans clubs are staying away from Russia, and the KHL. You're right, nobody in Europe said no when the "evil Russians" offered 10 million EUR in prize money, but in hindsight they would have been better off if they did say no.

Excuse. How do you want to create best European hockey league without Russians? That is like UEFA CL without Spanish or the NHL without Canadians.

Agreed, the people running the CHL are already involved in running successful and popular domestic leagues, and those leagues were built without any involvement from Russia. I don't see anything wrong with saying "We would like to have the KHL involved" when asked the question, but they certainly don't need to pander to Russia or the KHL.

Obviously you did not read the statements.

Huh? As far as I know the CHL has done exactly what they said they would do. Right from the start they said the first three years would include "licensed" founding clubs regardless of how good they were (Side note: I understand why they did this, but I think it was a mistake), and then after that qualification would be based on solely on performance from the previous season.

Maybe you do not understand the principle of licences (I do not judge if the CHL should adopt it or not). If they decided to go with licences, they should remain with the concept after 3 years. But they abandoned the licences after 3 years (and you implied that they planned it), then why they had adopted them in 2014? That is what I mean by "they still do not know what they want." Or maybe I am too harsh on them, and they did not understand the concept of licences since day one.

I personally think the top scorer wearing a different jersey is dumb, but this isn't exactly a concept limited to the CHL. In the grand scheme of things this isn't going to make or break the tournament.

It just says that they do not understand what fans want.

Has securing sponsors been an issue? Looks like they have a long term deal with the same company that markets the IIHF WC and 11 different companies have signed on as sponsors/partners for this season. Obviously none of them come anywhere close to Gazprom spending 9 figures propping up the KHL, but unfortunately for the CHL they have to live in the real world where companies hope to get out what they put in.

Yes, when you plan to launch such a big project, you need to think how to finance it. But that is not a point (and I wrote it in next sentence). The point is the Briza´s statement .... quality of managent again.

 

[vorky]

It's not a mentality, it's called the facts of life/realism. You really should recognize them already. Several posters have told them to you for years but you choose to ignore them, instead thinking that no transfer agreement at all would be better when facts have shown that the clubs really didn't think so.

You have to come to roots, not results.

 

[Jablkon]

People, still the same people who have never done anything positive for European hockey. I can start with bad NHL transfer agreement and finish with various attempts to rebirth CHL. Generally, bad managers are bad managers and always will be. Maybe it is not about people themself, but about general mentality in European hockey. Ask yourself, why every attempt to launch an international competition in European hockey has always failed? No, it is not about money. IMO it is about mentality of Euro hockey, disagreements between nations etc. Just two examples. First, Slovakia wanted to create joint league with Czechs a few years ago, or delegate a few SVK teams to Czech league. What did Czechs reply? "You are not good enough". Of course, one side is always worse, one better. But if you have a vision and will, all negative aspects can be fixed. I will use local term to describe it, "hrať sa na vlastnom piesočku", which can be translated as "we care only about us". Russias could say the same to Latvians, Kazakhs or Chinese - you are not good enough, you do not deserve a KHL team. For some reason they did not say it. Second, the KHL came with a vision, but Euros refused because a) you will ruin our domestic leagues b) you are evil Russians. The same argument of Russians was used in CHL 2008 - evil Russsians/KHL ruined CHL 2008. But, for some reason, nobody in Europe said "evil Russians want to invest 10 million EUR on prize money into CHL 2008, we Euros do not want it".

Lets be honest, CHL TV coverage is not top-notch. As I have said earlier, big gap between clubs and no vision how to fix it. I would welcome if you said me what is their vision.

The KHL´s (no)participation - it is one thing that they are not able to get the KHL into it. But why the CHL still say to media "there will be a time when the KHL realises they need to be in the CHL." Simple "we do not comment it" would be better approach. Right now the CHL looks like idiots with their comments on KHL´s participation.

IMO they still do not know what they want. Once they have licences, a few years later they introduce sport principle. And if they start discussing, as you suggested, if Europe needs the CHL ...

Lets say there is no marketing from their side. Or bad marketing as top scorer jersey. I understand, they need to promote their sponsor ...but there must be some limits. I have never heard from fans they like top scorer thing.

Money. If they are not able to secure sponsors, then there is something wrong with capability of the management. Fine, maybe European hockey is not so attractive. My point is another. As Briza said "lets do it, many Swedish companies will sponsor the CHL!" It says how bad they are in predictions. "Lets do it, sponsors will come" is not good enough argument to launch such a big project. To give you an example, Russians had plans to launch Euro-Asian League in 2005 (& earlier), but they did not do it, because they did not have financing at the time. Later they secured it.

I would agree that that Baumann guy might have some issues. Otherwise just very briefly. Slovak league is weak. Attract 6 teams from Slovakia or even four would be nonsense or at least very questionable. I agree that refusing Slovan Bratislava was complete nonsense and, here we are not in clash, proved that czech manageres have very limited view on situation. This does not have any relation to CHL.

BUt dont compare it to situation where KHL attracted one team from Latvia. They didnt want to merge with latvian or kazach league.

There is no such big gap among clubs that would cause any concerns. If you have an issue with one polish,french or slovakian team, most dont.

I dont really mind what CHL said about KHLparticipation.

You are definetely harsh about licences. Dont know why you bashing system which is better now.

Speaking about money, can you answer my previous question, whether you prefer no league or this league with small fees as they are set up right now?

To be honest you just look like guy who has generally problem with western culture than with CHL. So please answer the question to make it clear, what exactly you prefer.

 

[ForumNamePending]

You might not agree, but everything starts with transfer rules. You will never have profitable European hockey with current mindset.

Profitable European clubs already exist.

If the KHL's business model hinges on the NHL eventually paying tens/hundreds of millions $ buying players then it's easy to understand why few clubs in Europe appear interested in joining.

If all were fine, we would not have the statement.

What statement? What's not fine?

You did not get the point. I implied that Czechs in this case looked for problems how not to do it, Russians looked for solutions how to do it.

My point is perhaps the Czechs didn't even "looked for problems how not to do it" because they weren't even interested to begin with. Just because you don't want to merge your business with someone else's doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.

Excuse. How do you want to create best European hockey league without Russians? That is like UEFA CL without Spanish or the NHL without Canadians.

The same way the KHL plans to create a pan-Eurasian league without Europe being interested... Technically you don't/can't. Doesn't mean the CHL (or the KHL) can't be eventually successful without the other's involvement.

Obviously you did not read the statements.

What statements? The CHL regarding the involvement in the KHL? No I've seen 'em, at least some of them anyway. Not sure what your point is. Is there a statement/quote in particular you are talking about?

Maybe you do not understand the principle of licences (I do not judge if the CHL should adopt it or not). If they decided to go with licences, they should remain with the concept after 3 years. But they abandoned the licences after 3 years (and you implied that they planned it), then why they had adopted them in 2014? That is what I mean by "they still do not know what they want." Or maybe I am too harsh on them, and they did not understand the concept of licences since day one.

So somehow... The CHL doing exactly what they said they would do = The CHL not understanding the concept of licenses. Huh!?!?

It just says that they do not understand what fans want.

Other leagues do it and have apparently come to the conclusion the positives outweigh the negatives. This is so minor though it's not worth arguing over.

Yes, when you plan to launch such a big project, you need to think how to finance it. But that is not a point (and I wrote it in next sentence). The point is the Briza´s statement .... quality of managent again.

Not sure what I'm supposed to be taking away from this. Swedish companies, among others, have signed on to sponsor the CHL.