2017-18 Champions Hockey League

Discussion in 'International Tournaments' started by pled, Apr 22, 2017.

  1. vorky

    vorky @vorkywh24

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    All discussion started with your accusation of Czechs and Swiss. How they do bad PR for the CHL, while Swedes or Finns do not. I replied you that Czechs and Swiss have always had problems with an European cross-border competition. I think we can agree that in Czech case it is due to bafuňář issue.

    I used the KHL/Latvian etc example to describe the general attitude - someone looks for problems, someone for solutions.

    By gap I do not mean one Polish etc clubs. It is not only about level of players.

    Agree that CHL´s statements on KHL are not the biggest problem. Medvedev did the same mistake with KHL´s expansion. Chernyshenko has been clear since day one - I will not comment KHL´s expansion, when I have news, I will tell you.

    Maybe you missed my words that I do not judge the licence system. It was just an example how they are not consistent.

    I am a supporter of strong united European hockey which is run by people with visions and will to develop European hockey on fair conditions. That is your reply.
     
  2. vorky

    vorky @vorkywh24

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    Respecting contracts is enough.

    Read the thread.


    Read how the topic began.


    Sure, both can be succesful, one for top teams, another for not so top teams.


    I replied.


    I replied.


    Sure, not a big problem.


    Expectations and reality.
     
  3. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    Then you reply is blurry as hell. You should learn how to be more specific. You dont have any ideas of any form of the league, you just pick some partial things trying to put some general artificial picture. Your example how russians are trying to attract most famous clubs from each country is beoynd ridiculous. There is no need to continue.
     
  4. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

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    Former boss of the Finnish hockey federation Kalervo Kummola flat out said on Finnish national tv during the Worlds that the main reason for Gazprom pulling out as sponsor was Russian club's failure to win the tournament.
     
  5. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

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    They do. The automatic release clause is basically a technical tool, designed to lessen legal/paper work. All/most players would have one anyway set in place by their agents.
     
  6. jasonr90

    jasonr90 Registered User

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    The CHL isn't trying to be a league. It's a tournament. With the goal of bringing the best European hockey clubs together a la the UEFA Champions League
     
  7. ForumNamePending

    ForumNamePending Registered User

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    :huh:
    The NHL and KHL already have an understanding in place, so apparently just "respecting contracts" isn't enough.

    Currently I'm not even sure what point(s) your trying to make, so unless you want to clarify, I'm dropping this.:)

    And one will continue to struggle to establish any significant presence outside of the former Soviet Union.

    Right, in your response to Jablkon you said it really wasn't a big deal. Glad we agree.:)

    The organizers did exactly what they said they would do. It's weird you are trying to spin this as a negative.

    A-OK

    And what were/are those expectations? I think it was widely understood the CHL wasn't going to start out as a financially lucrative tournament.
     
  8. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    Its a tourney. Leagues are not its competitors. They started this project for several reasons. On fo them was to play against each other, make more confrontation, because Europe clearly lost the race with NA.They secured financing for several years.

    Brizas argument is completely understandable. If you think that after so many failes somebody found big sponzor for heavy donation, then your way of thinking is simply wrong. In regards to KHL, if they think same as some posters on KHL forums here, who calculated its better not participate because KHL teams might loose some games and it would damage KHL reputation as the second biggest league, I understand that these statements cause high temper among some people.

    There are only two significant issues -money and russian teams not involved. Everybody awared about situation in euro hockey knew that this will be one hell of tough project. Its even so vulnurable that even that criticism from clubs have big impact on it. But its vulnurable not because its weak but becuase its new and because of historical failures of these projects.

    Maybe people realize they dont want it. But the fact that under these circumstances you comming with demands to built bigger stadiums or securing high fees for clubs (despite it never worked longer than one season) just show you behave more like troll sitting somewhere in St.Petersburgh ot you are out of mind.

    You came with KHL examples succesfully ignoring crucial fact that, in real, no one really much respect these examples because of the way how the economy and financing is done there. Its complete twisted unfree economy enviroment. There are also clubs in CZ which are donated or supported by municipalites. Considering that living standard of people for example in Pardubice is higher than in Omsk area, then Pardubice would have been NHL caliber club, not even talking about wealthier countries. Thats why your Slovan Bratislava struggle every year, because slovaks respect basic economy rules and free trade. Russians built this reputation. BUt its funny how they dont understand why people dont want to do it in that way.
     
  9. Frenchy

    Frenchy Administrator

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    Guys , I dont like the way this conversation is turning. I would advise to change the overall tone or we will have to take actions regarding this thread.
     
  10. Jablkon

    Jablkon Registered User

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    Seems like Bern fans wanted their team to advance. Good job
     
  11. Hagstrom

    Hagstrom Registered User

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    Go Nottingham! Just started seriously following them last season ad this is awesome to see!
     
  12. Slimmy

    Slimmy Registered User

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    Could you elaborate? :)
     
  13. lakers11

    lakers11 Registered User

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    One thing. Since lesser teams get a chance to play in the CHL. Why doesnt the champion of Allsvenskan get a chance? They're good enough to advance from the group stage
     
  14. Jussi

    Jussi Registered User

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    Because Allsvenskan is a Tier 2 league in Sweden. Only teams from the top league. Come on man, that argument is like expecting the Championship winning side to get entry into the UCL. :laugh:
     
  15. habsturies

    habsturies Registered User

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    actually is not a totally unusual thing.
    In rugby,France & England award the 2nd tier division champion with a spot on the
    Challenge Cup (something like Europa-League)
     
  16. alce

    alce Registered User

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    Apparently, they aren't. VHL teams were blocked out of participation in continental cup, only because winner of CC get place in next year CHL. If CHL management is against even slim chance that second division teams would participate in CHL, then there is absolutely no chance for direct places for such teams. I think that's matter of prestige.
     
  17. vorky

    vorky @vorkywh24

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    Do you have a source for it? The VHL team played CC in 2013/14 & earlier, since 2014/15 not. As you said, it has direct connection to the CHL, which started 2014/15.
     
  18. alce

    alce Registered User

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    http://continental-cup2017-final.iihf.hockey/en/news/20-years-continental-cup/

    P.S. Also apparently VHL management had asked IIHF for exception as KHL had no interest in CC and got negative answer. Main reason for that was exactly that CC winner get place in CHL.

    https://www.sports.ru/hockey/1022406310.html
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
  19. lakers11

    lakers11 Registered User

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    Ye, but allsvenskan is a better league than the Norweigan, UK, Slovakian, Denmark etc etc

    There should be a qualify stage pre CHL so only the best out of those get to play in CHL.

    Anyway, looking at the playoff table, I can only think poor finland lol
     
  20. rooster85

    rooster85 Registered User

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    Yes, and English football Championship is way better than Greek or Cypriot league, but still Championship winner can't play in UEFA Champions League
     
  21. vorky

    vorky @vorkywh24

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    Thanks.

    Now tell me who wants to develop European hockey and who does not want. On one hand, the CHL says "we have British, Polish etc clubs because they can learn from top SWE, FIN etc clubs, can learn on and off ice. And that helps European hockey to develop." On the other hand, the same CHL says "No we do not want Allsvenskan, VHL clubs in CC. Even if they are better than clubs from top French etc leagues" Last but not least, the CHL says "what if Vladivostok wins KHL and qualifies to CHL? Who will travel to Vladivostok?" Real reasons or excuses? Btw, if you do not want 2nd league clubs, playing CC, to qualify to CHL, then you can have such a rule. If Allsvenskan or VHL club wins CC, then second in line qualifies to CHL. Of course, if you want to develop European hockey ... I am sure that some French etc club would be happy with a match against Allsvenskan or VHL clubs. But to exclude Allsvenskan & VHL from CC?
     
  22. lakers11

    lakers11 Registered User

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    Yet none of them get a free spot to the UCL. Have to go through the qualify stage first
     
  23. Kiev the Great

    Kiev the Great Registered User

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    I'd not be averse to qualifying rounds, but I'd not dillute the amount of wilcard league spots. Instead it would just give those leagues the chance to earn 2 rather than 1 spot for instance. I also think the idea of a 2nd tier league getting spots is bizarre, especially over top leagues from other nations because any Allsvenskan club can qualify for the CHL, they just have to be good enough to get promoted to the SHL first. I'd posit that having 2nd tier sides would cheapen the CHL far more than any of the teams from 'lesser' leagues because it takes away any pretence of prestige to have the 15th best team (at best in Sweden) from a country taking part.
     
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  24. lakers11

    lakers11 Registered User

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    Is there a league on the planet thats tougher to advance to than SHL? Not to mention starting next season each SHL club will have an additional 1.5 million euro in spending money, which increases the economical advantage even further.

    AS is a good league and I feel like the winner there deserves something :S
     
  25. Kiev the Great

    Kiev the Great Registered User

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    I think the Allsvenskan teams could be allowed into the Continental Cup (they used to be I think). They'd probably win it most years, but guess what, let Swedes into any Euro tournament (without KHL) and they are likely to win anyway!
     

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