2017-18 Champions Hockey League

[vorky]

I would agree that that Baumann guy might have some issues. Otherwise just very briefly. Slovak league is weak. Attract 6 teams from Slovakia or even four would be nonsense or at least very questionable. I agree that refusing Slovan Bratislava was complete nonsense and, here we are not in clash, proved that czech manageres have very limited view on situation. This does not have any relation to CHL.

BUt dont compare it to situation where KHL attracted one team from Latvia. They didnt want to merge with latvian or kazach league.

There is no such big gap among clubs that would cause any concerns. If you have an issue with one polish,french or slovakian team, most dont.

I dont really mind what CHL said about KHLparticipation.

You are definetely harsh about licences. Dont know why you bashing system which is better now.

Speaking about money, can you answer my previous question, whether you prefer no league or this league with small fees as they are set up right now?

To be honest you just look like guy who has generally problem with western culture than with CHL. So please answer the question to make it clear, what exactly you prefer.

All discussion started with your accusation of Czechs and Swiss. How they do bad PR for the CHL, while Swedes or Finns do not. I replied you that Czechs and Swiss have always had problems with an European cross-border competition. I think we can agree that in Czech case it is due to bafuňář issue.

I used the KHL/Latvian etc example to describe the general attitude - someone looks for problems, someone for solutions.

By gap I do not mean one Polish etc clubs. It is not only about level of players.

Agree that CHL´s statements on KHL are not the biggest problem. Medvedev did the same mistake with KHL´s expansion. Chernyshenko has been clear since day one - I will not comment KHL´s expansion, when I have news, I will tell you.

Maybe you missed my words that I do not judge the licence system. It was just an example how they are not consistent.

I am a supporter of strong united European hockey which is run by people with visions and will to develop European hockey on fair conditions. That is your reply.

 

[vorky]

Profitable European clubs already exist.

If the KHL's business model hinges on the NHL eventually paying tens/hundreds of millions $ buying players then it's easy to understand why few clubs in Europe appear interested in joining.

Respecting contracts is enough.

What statement? What's not fine?

Read the thread.

My point is perhaps the Czechs didn't even "looked for problems how not to do it" because they weren't even interested to begin with. Just because you don't want to merge your business with someone else's doesn't mean you don't know what you're doing.

Read how the topic began.

The same way the KHL plans to create a pan-Eurasian league without Europe being interested... Technically you don't/can't. Doesn't mean the CHL (or the KHL) can't be eventually successful without the other's involvement.

Sure, both can be succesful, one for top teams, another for not so top teams.

What statements? The CHL regarding the involvement in the KHL? No I've seen 'em, at least some of them anyway. Not sure what your point is. Is there a statement/quote in particular you are talking about?

I replied.

So somehow... The CHL doing exactly what they said they would do = The CHL not understanding the concept of licenses. Huh!?!?

I replied.

Other leagues do it and have apparently come to the conclusion the positives outweigh the negatives. This is so minor though it's not worth arguing over.

Sure, not a big problem.

Not sure what I'm supposed to be taking away from this. Swedish companies, among others, have signed on to sponsor the CHL.

Expectations and reality.

 

[Jablkon]

All discussion started with your accusation of Czechs and Swiss. How they do bad PR for the CHL, while Swedes or Finns do not. I replied you that Czechs and Swiss have always had problems with an European cross-border competition. I think we can agree that in Czech case it is due to bafuňář issue.

I used the KHL/Latvian etc example to describe the general attitude - someone looks for problems, someone for solutions.

By gap I do not mean one Polish etc clubs. It is not only about level of players.

Agree that CHL´s statements on KHL are not the biggest problem. Medvedev did the same mistake with KHL´s expansion. Chernyshenko has been clear since day one - I will not comment KHL´s expansion, when I have news, I will tell you.

Maybe you missed my words that I do not judge the licence system. It was just an example how they are not consistent.

.I am a supporter of strong united European hockey which is run by people with visions and will to develop European hockey on fair conditions. That is your reply

Then you reply is blurry as hell. You should learn how to be more specific. You dont have any ideas of any form of the league, you just pick some partial things trying to put some general artificial picture. Your example how russians are trying to attract most famous clubs from each country is beoynd ridiculous. There is no need to continue.

 

[Jussi]

I would say the 2008 CHL is one of many reasons why most Europeans clubs are staying away from Russia, and the KHL. You're right, nobody in Europe said no when the "evil Russians" offered 10 million EUR in prize money, but in hindsight they would have been better off if they did say no.

Former boss of the Finnish hockey federation Kalervo Kummola flat out said on Finnish national tv during the Worlds that the main reason for Gazprom pulling out as sponsor was Russian club's failure to win the tournament.

 

[Jussi]

Respecting contracts is enough.

They do. The automatic release clause is basically a technical tool, designed to lessen legal/paper work. All/most players would have one anyway set in place by their agents.

 

[jasonr90]

The CHL isn't trying to be a league. It's a tournament. With the goal of bringing the best European hockey clubs together a la the UEFA Champions League

 

[ForumNamePending]

Respecting contracts is enough.

The NHL and KHL already have an understanding in place, so apparently just "respecting contracts" isn't enough.

Read the thread.

Read how the topic began.

Currently I'm not even sure what point(s) your trying to make, so unless you want to clarify, I'm dropping this.

Sure, both can be succesful, one for top teams, another for not so top teams.

And one will continue to struggle to establish any significant presence outside of the former Soviet Union.

I replied.

Right, in your response to Jablkon you said it really wasn't a big deal. Glad we agree.

I replied.

The organizers did exactly what they said they would do. It's weird you are trying to spin this as a negative.

Sure, not a big problem.

A-OK

Expectations and reality.

And what were/are those expectations? I think it was widely understood the CHL wasn't going to start out as a financially lucrative tournament.

 

[Jablkon]

I have asked many times - how does the CHL plan to make the CHL the best European hockey league? Nobody has replied. Maybe you can start. Btw, Briza´s type of argument, "lets do it, wait and sponsors/fans will come" or Baumann´s type of argument "KHL will find out they need to be in the CHL" are unacceptable.

Its a tourney. Leagues are not its competitors. They started this project for several reasons. On fo them was to play against each other, make more confrontation, because Europe clearly lost the race with NA.They secured financing for several years.

Brizas argument is completely understandable. If you think that after so many failes somebody found big sponzor for heavy donation, then your way of thinking is simply wrong. In regards to KHL, if they think same as some posters on KHL forums here, who calculated its better not participate because KHL teams might loose some games and it would damage KHL reputation as the second biggest league, I understand that these statements cause high temper among some people.

There are only two significant issues -money and russian teams not involved. Everybody awared about situation in euro hockey knew that this will be one hell of tough project. Its even so vulnurable that even that criticism from clubs have big impact on it. But its vulnurable not because its weak but becuase its new and because of historical failures of these projects.

Maybe people realize they dont want it. But the fact that under these circumstances you comming with demands to built bigger stadiums or securing high fees for clubs (despite it never worked longer than one season) just show you behave more like troll sitting somewhere in St.Petersburgh ot you are out of mind.

You came with KHL examples succesfully ignoring crucial fact that, in real, no one really much respect these examples because of the way how the economy and financing is done there. Its complete twisted unfree economy enviroment. There are also clubs in CZ which are donated or supported by municipalites. Considering that living standard of people for example in Pardubice is higher than in Omsk area, then Pardubice would have been NHL caliber club, not even talking about wealthier countries. Thats why your Slovan Bratislava struggle every year, because slovaks respect basic economy rules and free trade. Russians built this reputation. BUt its funny how they dont understand why people dont want to do it in that way.

 

[Frenchy]

Guys , I dont like the way this conversation is turning. I would advise to change the overall tone or we will have to take actions regarding this thread.

 

[Jablkon]

Seems like Bern fans wanted their team to advance. Good job

 

[Hagstrom]

Go Nottingham! Just started seriously following them last season ad this is awesome to see!

 

[Slimmy]

Seems like Bern fans wanted their team to advance. Good job

Could you elaborate?

 

[lakers11]

One thing. Since lesser teams get a chance to play in the CHL. Why doesnt the champion of Allsvenskan get a chance? They're good enough to advance from the group stage

 

[Jussi]

One thing. Since lesser teams get a chance to play in the CHL. Why doesnt the champion of Allsvenskan get a chance? They're good enough to advance from the group stage

Because Allsvenskan is a Tier 2 league in Sweden. Only teams from the top league. Come on man, that argument is like expecting the Championship winning side to get entry into the UCL.

 

[habsturies]

actually is not a totally unusual thing.
In rugby,France & England award the 2nd tier division champion with a spot on the
Challenge Cup (something like Europa-League)

 

[alce]

One thing. Since lesser teams get a chance to play in the CHL. Why doesnt the champion of Allsvenskan get a chance? They're good enough to advance from the group stage

Apparently, they aren't. VHL teams were blocked out of participation in continental cup, only because winner of CC get place in next year CHL. If CHL management is against even slim chance that second division teams would participate in CHL, then there is absolutely no chance for direct places for such teams. I think that's matter of prestige.

 

[vorky]

Apparently, they aren't. VHL teams were blocked out of participation in continental cup, only because winner of CC get place in next year CHL. If CHL management is against even slim chance that second division teams would participate in CHL, then there is absolutely no chance for direct places for such teams. I think that's matter of prestige.

Do you have a source for it? The VHL team played CC in 2013/14 & earlier, since 2014/15 not. As you said, it has direct connection to the CHL, which started 2014/15.

 

[alce]

Do you have a source for it? The VHL team played CC in 2013/14 & earlier, since 2014/15 not. As you said, it has direct connection to the CHL, which started 2014/15.

Since the relaunch of the CHL, teams of the six founding CHL leagues (AUT, CZE, FIN, GER, SUI, SWE) are not included in the Continental Cup anymore and also champions from second-tier leagues of top hockey countries that were temporarily invited cannot take part anymore. While in the early years there has been more than one team from some countries, the Continental Cup has been limited to one team per country, usually being the champion.

http://continental-cup2017-final.iihf.hockey/en/news/20-years-continental-cup/

P.S. Also apparently VHL management had asked IIHF for exception as KHL had no interest in CC and got negative answer. Main reason for that was exactly that CC winner get place in CHL.

https://www.sports.ru/hockey/1022406310.html

 

[lakers11]

Because Allsvenskan is a Tier 2 league in Sweden. Only teams from the top league. Come on man, that argument is like expecting the Championship winning side to get entry into the UCL.

Ye, but allsvenskan is a better league than the Norweigan, UK, Slovakian, Denmark etc etc

There should be a qualify stage pre CHL so only the best out of those get to play in CHL.

Anyway, looking at the playoff table, I can only think poor finland lol

 

[rooster85]

Ye, but allsvenskan is a better league than the Norweigan, UK, Slovakian, Denmark etc etc

There should be a qualify stage pre CHL so only the best out of those get to play in CHL.

Anyway, looking at the playoff table, I can only think poor finland lol

Yes, and English football Championship is way better than Greek or Cypriot league, but still Championship winner can't play in UEFA Champions League

 

[vorky]

http://continental-cup2017-final.iihf.hockey/en/news/20-years-continental-cup/

P.S. Also apparently VHL management had asked IIHF for exception as KHL had no interest in CC and got negative answer. Main reason for that was exactly that CC winner get place in CHL.

https://www.sports.ru/hockey/1022406310.html

Thanks.

Now tell me who wants to develop European hockey and who does not want. On one hand, the CHL says "we have British, Polish etc clubs because they can learn from top SWE, FIN etc clubs, can learn on and off ice. And that helps European hockey to develop." On the other hand, the same CHL says "No we do not want Allsvenskan, VHL clubs in CC. Even if they are better than clubs from top French etc leagues" Last but not least, the CHL says "what if Vladivostok wins KHL and qualifies to CHL? Who will travel to Vladivostok?" Real reasons or excuses? Btw, if you do not want 2nd league clubs, playing CC, to qualify to CHL, then you can have such a rule. If Allsvenskan or VHL club wins CC, then second in line qualifies to CHL. Of course, if you want to develop European hockey ... I am sure that some French etc club would be happy with a match against Allsvenskan or VHL clubs. But to exclude Allsvenskan & VHL from CC?

 

[lakers11]

Yes, and English football Championship is way better than Greek or Cypriot league, but still Championship winner can't play in UEFA Champions League

Yet none of them get a free spot to the UCL. Have to go through the qualify stage first

 

[Kiev the Great]

I'd not be averse to qualifying rounds, but I'd not dillute the amount of wilcard league spots. Instead it would just give those leagues the chance to earn 2 rather than 1 spot for instance. I also think the idea of a 2nd tier league getting spots is bizarre, especially over top leagues from other nations because any Allsvenskan club can qualify for the CHL, they just have to be good enough to get promoted to the SHL first. I'd posit that having 2nd tier sides would cheapen the CHL far more than any of the teams from 'lesser' leagues because it takes away any pretence of prestige to have the 15th best team (at best in Sweden) from a country taking part.

 

[lakers11]

I'd not be averse to qualifying rounds, but I'd not dillute the amount of wilcard league spots. Instead it would just give those leagues the chance to earn 2 rather than 1 spot for instance. I also think the idea of a 2nd tier league getting spots is bizarre, especially over top leagues from other nations because any Allsvenskan club can qualify for the CHL, they just have to be good enough to get promoted to the SHL first. I'd posit that having 2nd tier sides would cheapen the CHL far more than any of the teams from 'lesser' leagues because it takes away any pretence of prestige to have the 15th best team (at best in Sweden) from a country taking part.

Is there a league on the planet thats tougher to advance to than SHL? Not to mention starting next season each SHL club will have an additional 1.5 million euro in spending money, which increases the economical advantage even further.

AS is a good league and I feel like the winner there deserves something :S

 

[Kiev the Great]

I think the Allsvenskan teams could be allowed into the Continental Cup (they used to be I think). They'd probably win it most years, but guess what, let Swedes into any Euro tournament (without KHL) and they are likely to win anyway!