2015 / 8-Team University Cup - Halifax

[Hollywood3]

Haven't heard anything yet. Probably won't hear anything definitive until the season gets closer.

It was supposed to be the OUA's turn this year but the CIS demanded two year bids. Ryerson only put in a one year bid. So the CIS went with the money over what was fair. Not saying it is wrong or right but that is what happened.

Ryerson bid for one year of basketball and one year of hockey. It would be nice to see them host hockey. Maybe they could do one year and Toronto the other.

Regina had a bid the last time around, and maybe Calgary also.

IMO I would rather see a small venue jammed than a large one with empty seats.

 

[Rob]

Ryerson bid for one year of basketball and one year of hockey. It would be nice to see them host hockey. Maybe they could do one year and Toronto the other.

Regina had a bid the last time around, and maybe Calgary also.

IMO I would rather see a small venue jammed than a large one with empty seats.

I think the current 8 seed format is going to hurt potential interest from potential OUA bids. Under the old format the home team got at least two games. Now it is one and done.

If I had to make a prediction right now it is that a Canada West team will be hosting in 2017/2018.

 

[Dutch]

For the play-in game between the two Conference Finalists, if the East team is from Quebec, it also has to play the game in Ontario.

No it doesn't. In 2010 Western and in 2012 Windsor came to UQTR to play for that 3rd place spot.

As for OUA hosting the Cup, where would that be held ? The Mac or Ricoh Coliseum ?

 

[11111]

OUA is composed of 19 teams (9 in the East Conference and 10 in the West Conference). East plays 26 games and West plays 27 games. They have some type of interlocking schedule.

The interlocking schedule is a full crossover, where each team from the east plays one game against each team from the west, with the home team alternating each year. The exceptions to this are Lakehead and Windsor, who - due to far travel - play doubleheaders each weekend (either home or away) against the same team and therefore only cross over against half the teams in the other division i.e. Lakehead plays only 5 OUA East teams, Windsor plays the other 4 (used to be the other 5 including Ottawa, as explained below)

As for the game schedule, the 26 and 27-game unbalanced format of this past season was a one-off, due to the late dropout of the Ottawa Gee Gees because of their suspension. The schedule was already set at 28 games per team as usual (home and home vs. division opponents, plus the crossover as mentioned above), and when Ottawa announced they wouldn't play, their games were simply cancelled from ever team's schedule. However, they have already said they will not play next year as well, so expect the OUA to return to a 28-game schedule again.

 

[11111]

I think the current 8 seed format is going to hurt potential interest from potential OUA bids. Under the old format the home team got at least two games. Now it is one and done.

If I had to make a prediction right now it is that a Canada West team will be hosting in 2017/2018.

If I were to guess, Ryerson will bid again at some point to hold the tournament at Maple Leaf Gardens. Can't see 2017/2018 though, as they are already hosting women's volleyball in 2017 and obviously the one year bid didn't go over well.

 

[AUS Fan]

"No it doesn't. In 2010 Western and in 2012 Windsor came to UQTR to play for that 3rd place spot."

Thanks Dutch. I was just about to check that out as I recall the same thing.

 

[AUS Fan]

"As for the game schedule, the 26 and 27-game unbalanced format of this past season was a one-off, due to the late dropout of the Ottawa Gee Gees because of their suspension. The schedule was already set at 28 games per team as usual (home and home vs. division opponents, plus the crossover as mentioned above), and when Ottawa announced they wouldn't play, their games were simply cancelled from ever team's schedule. However, they have already said they will not play next year as well, so expect the OUA to return to a 28-game schedule again."

Correct. I didn't want to make my post overly long-winded, so I didn't post any of the OU stuff. I'm guessing it will be 19 teams for years to come.

 

[AdamMcg83]

"As for the game schedule, the 26 and 27-game unbalanced format of this past season was a one-off, due to the late dropout of the Ottawa Gee Gees because of their suspension. The schedule was already set at 28 games per team as usual (home and home vs. division opponents, plus the crossover as mentioned above), and when Ottawa announced they wouldn't play, their games were simply cancelled from ever team's schedule. However, they have already said they will not play next year as well, so expect the OUA to return to a 28-game schedule again."

Correct. I didn't want to make my post overly long-winded, so I didn't post any of the OU stuff. I'm guessing it will be 19 teams for years to come.

Related wrinkle from this year, which will likely be rectified with more time to plan a 19-team schedule:

As many of you know, most OUA teams have a travel "partner," which allows for more simplified scheduling on long road trips. For example, Waterloo and Laurier are usually travel partners, so teams from out east (or Lakehead) usually make one trip to K-W to play both teams in a weekend. Conversely, Waterloo and Laurier usually make the same long road trip, swapping opponents over a weekend (for instance - this past October, Waterloo visited Laurentian-Nipissing on Fri/Sat, while Laurier visited Nipissing-Laurentian on Fri/Sat).

This caused some headaches for Ottawa's travel partner, McGill - last season, the Redmen had 7 instances where they were on the road, playing two games in two days, against a rested home team (including one ridiculous trip where they played at Western on a Fri afternoon, and at Lakehead on Saturday night). Obviously, McGill is a quality team and it didn't hurt them a great deal in the standings, but it might have cost them a precious point or two - which maybe would have earned them the host spot in the OUA bronze game.

I expect that situation to be remedied this year, but time will tell.

 

[Drummer]

For the play-in game between the two Conference Finalists, if the East team is from Quebec, it also has to play the game in Ontario.

No it doesn't. In 2010 Western and in 2012 Windsor came to UQTR to play for that 3rd place spot.

Only the play-in Queen's Cup game has to be played in an Ontario venue when one of the teams is from Quebec. If the Quebec team is the higher seed - they will get home ice change, but in the Ontario school's arena. This was one of the conditions when the three remaining Quebec schools merged their programs into the OUA for hockey after the departure of Sherbrooke, Laval, UMontreal & Bishops from the Quebec hockey scene.

The 3rd place game is played at the higher seed's arena regardless of province.

If the OUA were to host they would have 4 teams (the three automatic berths and the host). Rotating berths are no longer considered in the new 8-team tournament.

 

[Drummer]

I expect that situation to be remedied this year, but time will tell.

If the East play 4-intra Division games, that's 24 and only leaves them 4 games for cross-overs.

If the West play 4-intra Division games, that's 26 and only leaves them 2 games for cross-overs.

I'm surprised they don't do it this way (which is basically the same way that the CW and AUS do it). It would reduce travel costs for the cross-divisional games.

If the East play 2-intra Division games (the way it is today), that's 16 and leaves them 12 cross-over

If the West play 2-intra Division games (the way it is today), that's 18 and leaves them 10 cross-over.

 

[11111]

If the East play 4-intra Division games, that's 24 and only leaves them 4 games for cross-overs.

If the West play 4-intra Division games, that's 26 and only leaves them 2 games for cross-overs.

I'm surprised they don't do it this way (which is basically the same way that the CW and AUS do it). It would reduce travel costs for the cross-divisional games.

If the East play 2-intra Division games (the way it is today), that's 16 and leaves them 12 cross-over

If the West play 2-intra Division games (the way it is today), that's 18 and leaves them 10 cross-over.

Your math in your initial proposal of 4 division games is off, as 4x9 is 36 and 4x10 is 40. But in theory, this is how the schedule used to look (with very little crossover) in the old 4-division system, and even in the 2-division era until a couple years ago when Laurentian joined the league which is what caused the changes.

It used to be division teams played each other 4 times a year, and played the other teams in their conference (i.e. far east vs mid east and far west vs mid west) twice, with the remaining 4 games reserved for crossovers. Wonder if we see a return to this format.

 

[MiamiHockey]

No it doesn't. In 2010 Western and in 2012 Windsor came to UQTR to play for that 3rd place spot.

As for OUA hosting the Cup, where would that be held ? The Mac or Ricoh Coliseum ?

My mistake. I had thought that McGill had a better record than Windsor this season.

 

[AdamMcg83]

Your math in your initial proposal of 4 division games is off, as 4x9 is 36 and 4x10 is 40. But in theory, this is how the schedule used to look (with very little crossover) in the old 4-division system, and even in the 2-division era until a couple years ago when Laurentian joined the league which is what caused the changes.

It used to be division teams played each other 4 times a year, and played the other teams in their conference (i.e. far east vs mid east and far west vs mid west) twice, with the remaining 4 games reserved for crossovers. Wonder if we see a return to this format.

The most recent schedule was 24 games interdivision (3 each against the other 8 teams), and 4 crossover games. I know some coaches in the OUA West would prefer this, as it drastically cuts down on travel costs. A team like Western or Waterloo or Guelph used to have no more than two trips a season that required hotel stay; now, they have three to four.

 

[leafhky88]

The most recent schedule was 24 games interdivision (3 each against the other 8 teams), and 4 crossover games. I know some coaches in the OUA West would prefer this, as it drastically cuts down on travel costs. A team like Western or Waterloo or Guelph used to have no more than two trips a season that required hotel stay; now, they have three to four.

I was happy when they changed the format to home and home (18 total) and 10 crossover (when Ottawa was active) for the 28. It was a good chance to see teams I had never seen before.

I now would like to see the switch back to something resembling 24 within the conference. It not only reduces the travel costs but as a fan makes it easier to gauge the strengths of the teams as it is hard when you get to see most of them play only once.

 

[MiamiHockey]

The most recent schedule was 24 games interdivision (3 each against the other 8 teams), and 4 crossover games. I know some coaches in the OUA West would prefer this, as it drastically cuts down on travel costs. A team like Western or Waterloo or Guelph used to have no more than two trips a season that required hotel stay; now, they have three to four.

It makes no difference for most of the East teams because they have to overnight to most intra-conference games anyways.

The problem with the imbalanced inter-conference schedule is that there is a huge disparity in the East between the top 3 teams (McGill, UQTR, Carleton, the middle group, and the bottom dwellers (RMC, UOIT, Concordia). So, West Division playoff matches may end up being determined by whether you get the RMC - UOIT matches or the McGill - UQTR matches.

 

[Hollywood3]

I think the current 8 seed format is going to hurt potential interest from potential OUA bids. Under the old format the home team got at least two games. Now it is one and done.

If I had to make a prediction right now it is that a Canada West team will be hosting in 2017/2018.

As Lakehead found out, playing a game when already eliminated doesn't do much to draw crowds, either.

The only good way around this is to not have a pre-determined host. Not sure if this would fly, but one of the qualifiers would have to host. Since almost everybody could host a 4 team tournament, they could have an NCAA-style 4 regionals, with the winners advancing to the final four. Each team would have to declare their ability to host by a deadline (since arena availability could be at issue). There could be a pre-determined priority list, i.e. first dibs go the AUS winner, second dibs to CWUAA winner, etc. on a rotational basis.

Using this year's results:
Automatic bids:
Regular season winners: Alberta, Windsor, McGill, UNB
Conference winners and runners-up: Calgary, Guelph, UQTR, Acadia

Remaining places filled "at-large" (using OHT36):
SMU, SFX, Carleton, MRU, UWO, Waterloo, UBC, Manitoba

Edmonton Regional:
Alberta
St. F-X
Carleton
Manitoba

Fredericton Regional:
UNB
McGill
Windsor
UBC

Guelph Regional:
Guelph
Acadia
MRU
Waterloo

Halifax Regional:
Saint Mary's
Calgary
UQTR
Western Ontario

Frankly, I like the 8 team system. The problem may be that not many places see themselves as a national contender, hence hosting anything beyond a 4-team tournament would be risky.

 

[Rob]

I would definitely go for the regionals idea like the have in the NCAA. Only exception would be that the host would not be predetermined.

 

[MiamiHockey]

As Lakehead found out, playing a game when already eliminated doesn't do much to draw crowds, either.

Using this year's results:
Automatic bids:
Regular season winners: Alberta, Windsor, McGill, UNB
Conference winners and runners-up: Calgary, Guelph, UQTR, Acadia

Remaining places filled "at-large" (using OHT36):
SMU, SFX, Carleton, MRU, UWO, Waterloo, UBC, Manitoba

There'd be basically no point in having Conference Playoffs under the Regionals system, because (essentially) half of the CIS would go to Regionals.

I'd rather see the CIS go the route of making the Conference Championships more meaningful.

So, instead of having the University Cup, have two Semi-Final series: Series 1 would pit the CW Champion against either the OUA East or OUA West Champion, and Series 2 would pit the AUS Champion against the other OUA Champion. Best 2-of-3, in the home arena of one of the teams ... the match-ups and the hosting Conference would rotate.

THEN, have the National Championship be a best of 5 series, with the first two games one weekend at one of the teams, and the latter three games the second weekend at the other's. Again, using a rotation schedule, the host conference would be pre-determined.

I think this would be better financially for all teams involved (could you imagine the windfall from having a best-of-5 between Alberta and UNB), would eliminate the issues associated with having a host team underachieve, and would decrease the likelihood of one-game upsets determining national champions.

 

[AUS Fan]

You guys miss a key issue: The CIS is Not the NCAA. The US system is for-profit and exposure of its athletes. Ours is not.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

Hosting

I can't see a lot of interest in hosting this event, after it's second year in Halifax.
It isn't cheap to land this event and you need crowd support. Also, the host may only play one game , as opposed to two games under the old format. An early exit kills the crowd. any tournament hosted by an AUS team, has the ability to attract fans from the other AUS schools, due to short travel distances, this helps any event hosted in this area.
You would assume that an OUA team should host next, but who can host a successful U Cup in the OUA?? Crowd's weren't that great in T-Bay and Kitchener (with 3 local teams) was a complete disaster. Ryerson has a nice 4,000 seat rink, but I can't see much of a crowd interest in the GTA for CIS hockey.
CanadaWest?? outside of Edmonton and Saskatoon, would you get the interest?? Calgary??

What school will pay the money??
I would argue that Alberta is spending the most money of any program in the CIS, with a full time GM and probably the largest Alumni funding.
The only thing with Alberta is that there wasn't any CHL hockey in town in 2005-6.

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

The only thing with Alberta is that there wasn't any CHL hockey in town in 2005-6.

And no NHL hockey when they hosted in 2004-2005. Of course one could argue there hasn't been much in the way of NHL hockey in Edmonton in the last number of years either...

No CHL, the NHL lock-out, and Alberta being in the finals both years (including one year against rival Saskatchewan) was really a perfect storm for Edmonton hosting it.

I do agree though...there are probably only a handful of markets that could hold a successful tournament and you can't just rotate between the same couple of schools. It will certainly be interesting to see who bids for the years after Halifax.

 

[11111]

I can't see a lot of interest in hosting this event, after it's second year in Halifax.
It isn't cheap to land this event and you need crowd support. Also, the host may only play one game , as opposed to two games under the old format. An early exit kills the crowd. any tournament hosted by an AUS team, has the ability to attract fans from the other AUS schools, due to short travel distances, this helps any event hosted in this area.
You would assume that an OUA team should host next, but who can host a successful U Cup in the OUA?? Crowd's weren't that great in T-Bay and Kitchener (with 3 local teams) was a complete disaster. Ryerson has a nice 4,000 seat rink, but I can't see much of a crowd interest in the GTA for CIS hockey.
CanadaWest?? outside of Edmonton and Saskatoon, would you get the interest?? Calgary??

What school will pay the money??
I would argue that Alberta is spending the most money of any program in the CIS, with a full time GM and probably the largest Alumni funding.
The only thing with Alberta is that there wasn't any CHL hockey in town in 2005-6.

Ryerson's Mattamy Athletic Centre actually only holds about 2,500 for hockey. You're confusing the hockey capacity with that of the one for basketball - the rink can hold 4,000 when converted for hoops, as was the case with the recent CIS Final 8 tournament held there a couple weeks ago.

Whether or not the tournament would be supported well there is a question for sure. If marketed properly though, the way the basketball tournament was, it has a chance.

 

[AUS Fan]

Talking with one of the organizers, pre-tournament, there was a thought that Halifax will bid again. Post-tournament, 30K fans is not a bad number. With SFX or Acadia playing on Sat and again Sunday would have certainly increased that number. Weather was a factor for Sundays games.

 

[MiamiHockey]

Ryerson's Mattamy Athletic Centre actually only holds about 2,500 for hockey. You're confusing the hockey capacity with that of the one for basketball - the rink can hold 4,000 when converted for hoops, as was the case with the recent CIS Final 8 tournament held there a couple weeks ago.

Whether or not the tournament would be supported well there is a question for sure. If marketed properly though, the way the basketball tournament was, it has a chance.

The Mattamy Centre is beautiful, and I do think you'd get decent ticket sales ... but not at the level that you would in Alberta / Sask / Fredericton / Halifax.

But the bigger question is whether you'd find the corporate support you need to make it fly in Toronto.

 

[Hollywood3]

The Mattamy Centre is beautiful, and I do think you'd get decent ticket sales ... but not at the level that you would in Alberta / Sask / Fredericton / Halifax.

But the bigger question is whether you'd find the corporate support you need to make it fly in Toronto.

You basically need one big sponsor, and since it is on TV I would say it could be done. Ryerson must have a grad who bought a company.

Also, Ryerson's small venue is ideal. It is easy to find flights to Toronto for any teams that qualify so even the Atlantic and Western teams would bring in several hundred fans between them.

If they have the will to host I am sure they could do it.