2015 / 8-Team University Cup - Halifax

[Drummer]

This year's University Cup will have 8 teams in a true playdown tournament to a gold medal champion. I don't believe the CIS has ever had 8 teams to a National (Hockey) Finals.

The seasons is 1/3 completed and here is guess at the tournament brackets based on the current CIS Top 10. Higher seeds are assumed conference champions, lower seeds are assumed Conf. Wild-cards.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)

(H) SMU (4) -vs- (V) CAL (5)
---
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) CAR (7)

(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) UQTR (6)

Reseed comparable teams CAL as 6 and UQTR as 5: this places a CW in the bottom and an OUA team in the top. Also avoids OUA-vs-OUA in the bottom.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)
............................................ (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SMU (4)
(H) SMU (4) -vs- (V) UQTR (5)
------------------------------- ...................................... (V) ALB (1) -vs- (V) UNB (2)
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) CAR (7)
............................................ (H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) WIN (3)
(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

Some really good games in the first round.

- ALB would have to get by two(2) AUS teams to get to the final. Three to win gold
- UNB would have to get by two(2) OUA teams to get to the final.

Note 1: Tough tournament to win if you are seeded below 4, you're likely the visitor for every game you play (if you advance).

Note 2: The 2-game UNB vs Windsor series over the Christmas break will interesting.

Click to read more...

 

[UNB Bruins Fan]

The AUS will be very interesting this year with 3 teams getting berths (X being one as the host)...that means at least one of UNB/SMU/Acadia won't even make it to the tournament.

It also makes finishing 1st in the regular season very important. Assuming UNB/SMU/Acadia finish in the top 3 in some order, finishing first will guarantee you won't have to see either of the other two teams until the finals, and by then your spot will be guaranteed.

 

[radapex]

Is this a format change they've adopted or just something odd being done for Halifax?

 

[connor macdavid]

I expect to see the Carleton Ravens hop into the Top-8 before the end of the season.

 

[Hollywood3]

Is this a format change they've adopted or just something odd being done for Halifax?

It is the 1st season of a new format for men's and women's basketball and hockey. All on one weekend on SportsnetU.

 

[Drummer]

Is this a format change they've adopted or just something odd being done for Halifax?

As Hollywood mentioned, it is part of the SportsNet 'Weekend of Champions' where all three tournaments are 8-team competitions.

This format will be in-place for both years in Halifax. I suspect the hockey format will be evaluated at the end of this year's tournament to see if it will continue after Halifax (it could change for the group hosting in '16/'17).

Bids for after Halifax are likely to be accepted this Summer ('15) and be announced in the Fall of '15 so the winning group can attend the '15/'16 finals to gauge ideas and marketing approaches for the following season)

 

[Drummer]

The AUS will be very interesting this year with 3 teams getting berths (X being one as the host)...that means at least one of UNB/SMU/Acadia won't even make it to the tournament.

It also makes finishing 1st in the regular season very important. Assuming UNB/SMU/Acadia finish in the top 3 in some order, finishing first will guarantee you won't have to see either of the other two teams until the finals, and by then your spot will be guaranteed.

Yup - absolutely correct. I would hate to be #2 or #3 as it pretty much means you will have the toughest semi-final (baring upsets). At least the Semi's will be best of 5.

 

[AdamMcg83]

I expect to see the Carleton Ravens hop into the Top-8 before the end of the season.

They are already in this hypothetical top 8...

 

[radapex]

As Hollywood mentioned, it is part of the SportsNet 'Weekend of Champions' where all three tournaments are 8-team competitions.

This format will be in-place for both years in Halifax. I suspect the hockey format will be evaluated at the end of this year's tournament to see if it will continue after Halifax (it could change for the group hosting in '16/'17).

Bids for after Halifax are likely to be accepted this Summer ('15) and be announced in the Fall of '15 so the winning group can attend the '15/'16 finals to gauge ideas and marketing approaches for the following season)

Ok. That adds perspective to the AUS final being best of 3. I assume it's the top 2 from each, a Quebec representative, and the host?

 

[AdamMcg83]

Ok. That adds perspective to the AUS final being best of 3. I assume it's the top 2 from each, a Quebec representative, and the host?

Not quite - the 3 OUA teams will be the two Queen's Cup finalists (east and west champs), and the winner of a third-place game (between the losers of the OUA east/west finals). One of the three spots isn't necessarily earmarked for a Quebec team, although UQTR and McGill certainly have a good shot to earn one of those three bids.

 

[Drummer]

Half way HOME

Well - the season is half over (a bit farther along for CW) so lets see how the University Cup would look assuming Ranked Teams advance. There is almost no change from the first time around. The only positional changes is UNB & SMU.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)

(H) UNB (4) -vs- (V) CAL (5)
---
(H) SMU (2) -vs- (V) CAR (7)

(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) UQTR (6)

Reseed comparable teams CAL as 6 and UQTR as 5: this places a CW in the bottom and an OUA team in the top. Also avoids OUA-vs-OUA in the bottom.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)
............................................ (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) UNB (4)
(H) UNB (4) -vs- (V) UQTR (5)
------------------------------- ...................................... (V) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SMU (2)
(H) SMU (2) -vs- (V) CAR (7)
............................................ (H) SMU (2) -vs- (V) WIN (3)
(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)


As before, some really great games here. The SMU/CAR and WIN/CAL games could go either way. UNB vs ALB in the first Semi would be interesting - UNB has never beaten ALB in a gold game, but has never lost in a preliminary game.

 

[Drummer]

I was talking to Foil last week and he's under the impression that the two Ontario Winners (OUA-E & OUA-W) will be considered Conf. Champions making them the top 4 seeds (rather than my assumption of going with the top 3). That assertion impacts proposed schedule.

Using the pre-Christmas rankings we get the following:

ALB (1), UNB(2), WIN(3) & McG (4) with SMU(5), CAL(6), UQTR(7) & SFX(8)

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)

(H) McG (4) -vs- (V) SMU (5)
---
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) UQTR (7)

(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

I don't see any reason to reseed teams as there is a good balance here.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)
............................................ (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) McG (4)
(H) McG (4) -vs- (V) SMU (5)
------------------------------- ...................................... (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) UNB (2)
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) UQTR (7)
............................................ (H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) WIN (3)
(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

 

[Hollywood3]

I was talking to Foil last week and he's under the impression that the two Ontario Winners (OUA-E & OUA-W) will be considered Conf. Champions making them the top 4 seeds (rather than my assumption of going with the top 3). That assertion impacts proposed schedule.

Using the pre-Christmas rankings we get the following:

ALB (1), UNB(2), WIN(3) & McG (4) with SMU(5), CAL(6), UQTR(7) & SFX(8)

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)

(H) McG (4) -vs- (V) SMU (5)
---
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) UQTR (7)

(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

I don't see any reason to reseed teams as there is a good balance here.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)
............................................ (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) McG (4)
(H) McG (4) -vs- (V) SMU (5)
------------------------------- ...................................... (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) UNB (2)
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) UQTR (7)
............................................ (H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) WIN (3)
(H) WIN (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

That's true. Link: http://static.psbin.com/5/i/kgwpup22hk0jj5/HockeyM.pdf

IMO this is crazy.

 

[Drummer]

That's true. Link: http://static.psbin.com/5/i/kgwpup22hk0jj5/HockeyM.pdf

IMO this is crazy.

Thanks Holly - I hadn't seen that published yet. I had looked for it at the beginning if the year, but there was no link at the time.

What part is crazy for you? That 4 teams are returning home by Saturday?

 

[Hollywood3]

Thanks Holly - I hadn't seen that published yet. I had looked for it at the beginning if the year, but there was no link at the time.

What part is crazy for you? That 4 teams are returning home by Saturday?

No, I prefer the knockout format to what they had. I was responding to the seeding of two OUA teams in the top 4.

 

[AdamMcg83]

No, I prefer the knockout format to what they had. I was responding to the seeding of two OUA teams in the top 4.

I think this should be an all-or-nothing kind of thing. If you want to consider champions as top seeds, then it has to be all four - the winners of the OUA east and west play the same (or more) number of playoff rounds as the AUS and CW champs, and an OUA division title means an automatic Uni Cup spot, just like it does for the AUS or CW champ.

The alternative, however, would be to seed all 8 teams regardless of their status as conference champions (I think CIS Basketball does this - no?) That might be the way to go, but if they're sticking with champs as top seeds, four makes the most sense.

 

[Drummer]

I think Hollywood's issue is with the OUA Runner-up automatically being seeded 4th. So, there is no way the two OUA teams can be, for example #2 & #3 and conversely no way a CW or AUS team will be 4th.

This makes the quarter-final 4-vs-5 game interesting. This game already has the highest chance of an upset - even more now (as the AUS and CW runner-ups have been stronger of late).

 

[AdamMcg83]

I think Hollywood's issue is with the OUA Runner-up automatically being seeded 4th. So, there is no way the two OUA teams can be, for example #2 & #3 and conversely no way a CW or AUS team will be 4th.

This makes the quarter-final 4-vs-5 game interesting. This game already has the highest chance of an upset - even more now (as the AUS and CW runner-ups have been stronger of late).

Yeah, that part doesn't make sense at all. The committee is basically instructed to treat the OUA runner up as the "worst" of the conference champions, regardless of their position in the rankings.

This exacerbates the problem we already had in the six-team format: When a lower-ranked team beats a higher-ranked team in the Queen's Cup. A team like McGill (21 wins, 44 pts last year) loses the one-game championship on the road against Windsor (17 wins, 34 pts), and all of a sudden, they're ranked fourth in the tourney - facing the best AUS/CW runner-up, instead of being the third seed, where they might be ranked anyway, regardless of the QC loss.

 

[cishockeyfan]

Yeah, that part doesn't make sense at all. The committee is basically instructed to treat the OUA runner up as the "worst" of the conference champions, regardless of their position in the rankings.

This exacerbates the problem we already had in the six-team format: When a lower-ranked team beats a higher-ranked team in the Queen's Cup. A team like McGill (21 wins, 44 pts last year) loses the one-game championship on the road against Windsor (17 wins, 34 pts), and all of a sudden, they're ranked fourth in the tourney - facing the best AUS/CW runner-up, instead of being the third seed, where they might be ranked anyway, regardless of the QC loss.

The Only Way to fix this scenario would be to Eliminate The Queens Cup Game, I realize traditionalist would scoff at the thought of not playing for the Queens Cup, but really its a meaningless 1 game, anyone can win one game. or change it to a Best of 3 Queens Cup Final at the very least

You can look at it another way, while some may go wacky at the thought of The OUA Runner-up up always being 4th ranked and never having a chance to be say 3rd. Think of it from the AUS or CW runner-up position, they will never have a chance to be 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th (OUA runner-up always) CW and AUS runner-ups will always be 5th through 7th and the team designated as Host always 8th.

Id rather see the OUA treated as a West and East Conference with their own championship (Kinda like they do) but eliminate that 1 queens cup game that cause this debate.

or as I said above make it an official Championship with a Best of 3 Series, and than the CW, AUS and OUA Champion deserved to be ranked 1,2 and 3 and than Make the AUS, CW and OUA runner-ups the 4 through 6 Ranked Teams, The team receiving the extra Conference Wild Card and Host can be ranked 7 and 8 in the order that the Regular CIS Voting Panel Decides to do the top 8 in.

Truth be told I never liked the 6 team system, but I certainly don't like the 8 team system yes we will get the True Semifinals, but 1 in every 4 CIS University Hockey Programs now make the CIS Championship thats just too much. with two conferences each year having 3 teams in the Championship (aus 3 of 8, and CW 3 of 8) thats just eliminating the importance of the Conference Championship.

Best Pure format will always be the 4 Team University Cup format from the mid 80's to 1997. The only reason this will never been done again is $$$, the CIS wants a host team, not the empty Varsity Arena in Toronto

 

[Drummer]

or - give no weight to the Queen's Cup champion. Treat it like it's an exhibition game and let the Committee rank the four conferences 1-to-4 regardless of conference (OUA could go 1-2 or 3-4 or any combination there in).

 

[AdamMcg83]

or - give no weight to the Queen's Cup champion. Treat it like it's an exhibition game and let the Committee rank the four conferences 1-to-4 regardless of conference (OUA could go 1-2 or 3-4 or any combination there in).

That's a much more realistic scenario than eliminating a century-old hockey championship that the OUA values as much as (or more than) the Yates Cup

 

[MiamiHockey]

The Only Way to fix this scenario would be to Eliminate The Queens Cup Game, I realize traditionalist would scoff at the thought of not playing for the Queens Cup, but really its a meaningless 1 game, anyone can win one game. or change it to a Best of 3 Queens Cup Final at the very least

So the Queen's Cup is a meaningless championship game, but the University Cup single-elimination games are meaningful? Interesting logic.

I agree that it would be better to be Best-of-3, but being a single-game does diminish it at all.

You can look at it another way, while some may go wacky at the thought of The OUA Runner-up up always being 4th ranked and never having a chance to be say 3rd. Think of it from the AUS or CW runner-up position, they will never have a chance to be 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th (OUA runner-up always) CW and AUS runner-ups will always be 5th through 7th and the team designated as Host always 8th.

Fans of every conference should be pleased about the OUA Runner-Up being the #4 seed. What it does is ensure that teams will not face opponents from their own conference in the first round.

The #5 and #6 seed will surely be the AUS and CW runners-up, meaning that they will face the top two OUA teams in the first round.

Then, the #7 and #8 teams can be conveniently ranked to pit them against an opposing conference team in the first round. It's pretty logical. After the first round of inter-conference games are finished, fans of each conference can then make their annual arguments about which conference is better on the basis of those 4 games.

 

[Hollywood3]

So the Queen's Cup is a meaningless championship game, but the University Cup single-elimination games are meaningful? Interesting logic.

I agree that it would be better to be Best-of-3, but being a single-game does diminish it at all.

Fans of every conference should be pleased about the OUA Runner-Up being the #4 seed. What it does is ensure that teams will not face opponents from their own conference in the first round.

The #5 and #6 seed will surely be the AUS and CW runners-up, meaning that they will face the top two OUA teams in the first round.

Then, the #7 and #8 teams can be conveniently ranked to pit them against an opposing conference team in the first round. It's pretty logical. After the first round of inter-conference games are finished, fans of each conference can then make their annual arguments about which conference is better on the basis of those 4 games.

Having OUA #2 ranked 4th only ensures that OUA #3 will not be ranked 5th. The rankings would always be jigged so as to avoid conference teams playing each other in the quarter-finals.

IAE, I want to see the 3 berths for the OUA trimmed back.

On a somewhat related topic, since SportsNet bought the CIS rights before they acquired the NHL rights, I am wondering if they will put as much as expected into their CIS coverage. They did not splurge on their Vanier Cup coverage.

When SportsNet became involved I thought they would boost their promotions and over time maybe add coverage of regional playoffs, and perhaps push hockey into adopting regional or conference tournaments in place of exisitng best-of-3 series. Now that would be a big change for hockey.

 

[Hollywood3]

Conference Tournaments

I have brought this up in passing before. Bit what if SportsNet (or TSN in the future should they reacquire the rights) wanted to show conference tournaments?

This would effectively end the best-of-3 series, which may not be such a bad thing.

In volleyball and basketball, though, the conference championship lacks something when both teams have already assured themselves a place in the nationals.

So, how about the WCC format? They have a 5 team round-robin followed by a 4-team playoff like this:

1st v 2nd - championship

3rd v 4th - semi-final for 2nd berth
loser 1st/2nd v winner 3rd/4th = final for 2nd berth

They could also have a 5-team tournament using the page system:

2nd v 3rd - semi-final for championship
1st v winner 2nd/3rd - for championship

4th v 5th - quarter-final for 2nd berth
winner 4th/5th v loser 2nd/3rd - semi-final for 2nd berth
winner semi-final v loser of championship - final for 2nd berth

 

[Drummer]

Close to the end

Not much has changes from Christmas, but I thought I would update the 8-team tournament with last weeks Top-10 rankings.

ALB (1), UNB(2), UQTR(3) & Win(4) with ACD(5), CAL(6), McG(7) & SFX(8)

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)

(H) Win (4) -vs- (V) ACD (5)
---
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) McG (7)

(H) UQTR (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

I don't see any reason to re-seed teams as there is a good balance here.

(H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) SFX (8)
............................................ (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) Win (4)
(H) Win (4) -vs- (V) ACD (5)
------------------------------- ...................................... (H) ALB (1) -vs- (V) UNB (2)
(H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) McG (7)
............................................ (H) UNB (2) -vs- (V) UQTR (3)
(H) UQTR (3) -vs- (V) CAL (6)

Even though Windsor is ranked ahead of ACD, I would bet on ACD winning that game which sets up a great Semi.