GDT: 10/7/17 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Florida

[DFC]

It's not on purpose Mach. If there's anything I've learned it's that it's best to wait and see. Yzerman proves my rash reactions wrong on the regular. If we suddenly pull out of this then what? I'm not doing this so I can be right. It's that I've been legitimately concerned about the chemistry and complacency of our roster for years now and I'm not certain if Coop is actually making it worse.

If we suddenly rattle off a huge winning streak and play like champions then at what point does the board become convinced it wasn't Cooper after all?

The last thing I want is for Coop to get fired and total ****ing derp worse than him takes over

What you're saying is basically: Even though my surgeon is operating on the wrong arm, I'm gonna see where this goes just in case there's a problem there too.

The fact that the team is so streaky is a coaching problem.

 

[Sky04]

Gerard Gallant is who I wanted. Now he’s got the expansion team out to the best start in expansion history. Meanwhile the supposed Cup caliber Lightning got prolapsed for the 4th straight game by the Panthers (including preseason).

This, guys 2-0 with an expansion team of course Sunny's guna Sunny, as long as we get mediocre results that guy will be happy.

 

[Sky04]

Missed this game but seems like everything I've been concered about the last couple years showed up.

For the hundreth time, the defensive system is utter trash spending 6m+ on Shattenkirk would've been dumb as hell considering the players aren't the biggest issue. Doesn't matter who's back there those guys look consufsed once the puck gets rolling and everyone starts to scramble - that's a bad sign of coaching,

You know, I'm not going to completely blame Vasi but I've said it numerous times if we aren't getting Vezina caliber goaltending on a nightly basis we're going to lose a ton of games. Not sure how anyone who's watched this team the past 4 years could've thought otherwise, we've been giving up these high scoring chances since Cooper's been here - Bishop swallowing up pucks negated a lot of those pumblings, Vasi doesn't have that control.

Transisition - trash.

The players actually look well conditioned and are definitely rested - can't blame it on that this year. Hard to pinpoint with so many things wrong that have been built up for 3 years now but hey as someone else said - it's easier to replace 1 guy than 20. Funny how Yzerman kept Johnson over Drouin and Point has essentially replaced him already.

 

[Sky04]

Latter days Boucher honestly. Play incredibly passive for 50 minutes - and then make it closer than it looks at the end.

Cept our rosters twice as good as it ever was with Boucher - how is this acceptable with this much talent?

 

[DFC]

You don't have to hire someone from the old boys club. Promote Groulx for all I care. He did well with Syracuse who weren't expected to do that much. Or hire someone else who actually puts emphasis on speed and skill like that one guy in Pittsburgh. I have liked Cooper and hoped it wouldn't come to this but all the talk before the season has been for nothing because we've been dominated by the Panthers in both games. To me, nothing has changed. I fully expect us to be destroyed by the Caps, Pens and Blues next week and if/when that happens, it's time for change.

I think we need someone who knows how to handle egos.

Bring Scotty Bowman down from the pressbox and let him coach the home games if he doesn't want to travel. :p

 

[DFC]

Can we still post youtube videos? Here's a link to Coop's post-game. I found one spot, at about 1:20 in, really interesting with regards to the conversation we're having here:

"If players want to continue to play the way that they feel that... you know... It's gonna be tough for us."

It sounds like even he's saying he's lost the room. Or at least part of it.

 

[Callum]

Awful game.

I was running out of patience with Cooper last year, despite the end of year run and I've just about had it. His inability to adapt and motivate our players is infuriating. Surely if play keeps up like this, he doesn't make it until December.

 

[The Gongshow]

It's great that we're scoring but we can't keep having these gun fights trying to score 4+ to win a game. Gotta work on our defence, my goodness.

Vasi also can't let in 3-4+ a game, I know every goal won't be his fault but the different between and a good and great goalie is making "that" save, Bishop bailed us out and Vasi has to do this for us time to time.

 

[Giacomo]

How do you lose to Florida?

 

[Crunchrulz]

After last evening's game vs Rochester, the issue may not just be at an NHL level. Crunch had mere moments of looking like a team but lots of lapses.

 

[The Macho King]

It's great that we're scoring but we can't keep having these gun fights trying to score 4+ to win a game. Gotta work on our defence, my goodness.

Vasi also can't let in 3-4+ a game, I know every goal won't be his fault but the different between and a good and great goalie is making "that" save, Bishop bailed us out and Vasi has to do this for us time to time.

I agree generally, but Vasi gave us "that save" about ten times last night before the dam broke. He wasn't getting peppered with low percentage shots - every shift we were giving up a scoring chance.

 

[Fabiobest]

Can we still post youtube videos? Here's a link to Coop's post-game. I found one spot, at about 1:20 in, really interesting with regards to the conversation we're having here:



It sounds like even he's saying he's lost the room. Or at least part of it.

If he has really lost the dressing room, it's time to change.
I hope Yzerman will do the right thing...before it'll be too late...

 

[MattM92]

The signs of a coaching problem have been there since the 2015 season. Back then we didn’t care because TKO was ripping the league apart, but the rest of the team was a mess. We were a one line team and that was proven in the Final when Johnson had a broken wrist. That was when Bishop was a god too, and he lost some effectiveness with his injury too. Coopers response to a neutered Johnson was to continue to funnel the offense through him. We scored what, 2 goals in our last 3 games? The guy can’t adjust. He seems to just randomly do things and hope it works. How often do we see consistent defensive pairings? How often does he just revert to a line blender when things aren’t going well as if everything is personnel?

His comments last night are really telling. Guys will play the way they want to play? No the hell they won’t, that’s the whole reason you have a coach.

 

[Leonardo87]

From what I've been reading and looking at the stat sheets, Cooper changed the lines, and it blew up in his face? Kinda glad actually. Never will learn if they win from this kind of play and coaching.

Someone here said it best, bad habits are created when you win playing like this.

Can't put too much fault on Vasy, he had no support. SOG against were ridiculous. Kinda glad I missed this one.

 

[These Are The Days]

What you're saying is basically: Even though my surgeon is operating on the wrong arm, I'm gonna see where this goes just in case there's a problem there too.

The fact that the team is so streaky is a coaching problem.

How is it that his coaching and his system has been responsible for the decline of our team and yet in both years we completely do a 180 and yet that has nothing to do with him as well?

Is it really a coaching problem? Or is it that we are a streaky team? We've been seeing this for 2 years now and both times when the team pulled itself together and started playing consistently had nothing to do with the coaching it was receiving. Coop stood at the bench chewing gum like a cow.

He didn't alter the forecheck, the breakout, change our set plays, didn't introduce new systems or take them away. He didn't use the 1-3-1 to protect a lead (like he always does) any more or less. He didn't change the roles of the players except for Point because he was the last healthy center we had going for us and meanwhile the veterans (who he's supposedly cannot keep motivated) like Kucherov and Hedman along with a malcontent who demanded a trade were the ones busting ass every night.

The only adjustment Cooper has ever made to our team was during the "Tampacuse" months where if we happened to score first he did everything we could to sit on it because everyone in the building knew that we weren't gonna score another. You likened us to the Gretzky Oilers playing like the Brodeur Devils.

We both agree that there is a major player issue. But given the fact that Jon Cooper has had nothing to with the team pulling itself out of the holes it creates tells me that the guy is laissez-faire and he lets the team figure it out.

That's why I've said "The guy doesn't do anything"

 

[MattM92]

And on Vasi, he’s played about as well as you can hope. Gave the team a chance in both games. Very sharp early on both games to help us get our feet. But you can only get swamped so many times before one breaks through. And I’m betting some fatigue got to him later in the game last night. Played a back to back and faced like 90 shots. At some point you’ve gotta play some defense for the kid.

 

[MattM92]

How is it that his coaching and his system has been responsible for the decline of our team and yet in both years we completely do a 180 and yet that has nothing to do with him as well?

Is it really a coaching problem? Or is it that we are a streaky team? We've been seeing this for 2 years now and both times when the team pulled itself together and started playing consistently had nothing to do with the coaching it was receiving. Coop stood at the bench chewing gum like a cow.

He didn't alter the forecheck, the breakout, change our set plays, didn't introduce new systems or take them away. He didn't use the 1-3-1 to protect a lead (like he always does) any more or less. He didn't change the roles of the players except for Point because he was the last healthy center we had going for us and meanwhile the veterans (who he's supposedly cannot keep motivated) like Kucherov and Hedman along with a malcontent who demanded a trade were the ones busting ass every night.

The only adjustment Cooper has ever made to our team was during the "Tampacuse" months where if we happened to score first he did everything we could to sit on it because everyone in the building knew that we weren't gonna score another. You likened us to the Gretzky Oilers playing like the Brodeur Devils.

We both agree that there is a major player issue. But given the fact that Jon Cooper has had nothing to with the team pulling itself out of the holes it creates tells me that the guy is laissez-faire and he lets the team figure it out.

That's why I've said "The guy doesn't do anything"

You are arguing for a coaching change and don’t even realize it.

 

[These Are The Days]

Cept our rosters twice as good as it ever was with Boucher - how is this acceptable with this much talent?

lmfao and yet Cooper won more games with an AHL squad last year than Boucher could with his by the time he was fired and damn near made the playoffs with a goaltender that would fall apart every time he let in a softy.

 

[Iceman]

If he has really lost the dressing room, it's time to change.
I hope Yzerman will do the right thing...before it'll be too late...

Seems like it.

The casual nice guy on the outside approach won't win you championships.

Once I saw photos of him out partying with players, I was officially done with him.

 

[Fabiobest]

Seems like it.

The casual nice guy on the outside approach won't win you championships.

Once I saw photos of him out partying with players, I was officially done with him.

Then, if last season he could have the injuries as an excuse not to make playoffs, this year (till now of course), the entire roster is healthy.
And rich of talent.
We've Heddy, Kuch and Stammer: 3 of the best 20-25 players in the world. Maybe only Blackhawks and Penguins have three players like ours...
And either Hawks or Pens have won at least 2 Cups...So it's unacceptable playing like yesterday night.
(Yes...I've lot of fear about another bad season...).

 

[These Are The Days]

You are arguing for a coaching change and don’t even realize it.

No Matt I do realize it. There's been a HUGE problem with this team's motivation for years now. Remember... I made the "Bad Lightning team is bad" thread and I was calling for Cooper to be fired less than 6 months after a Stanley Cup Finals. But I watch the team and I cannot pinpoint leadership in the locker room or leadership on the bench. No matter how much people want to say it there is a difference between the two. And you know as well as I do Coop is gonna stand there and chew gum no matter what happens. But if we turn around the whole season, finish with 100 points, 2nd place in the Altantic then tell me why that would happen? It's not gonna be because Coop did anything different I promise you that! He's gonna do that same thing as always.

It'll be hardened proof that this is a team that starts slow and takes several months to get going. Because I'm gonna be honest. I'm fully expecting us to play uninspired .500 hockey until December and then suddenly the whole thing turns around and we'll say "Where was this in October" and it'll have been the 3rd year in a row of this happening. By that point it'll be hard proof that this is just who we are as a team.

And then what? The argument to fire Cooper is because we start slow? We both know coaching (or as I believe -a lack thereof) has a lot to do with that but if we hoist the Cup in June then I'm not gonna give a shit how we play from October to November. It'll be the same thing as with Palat. We start slow, pick it up and by March I'm saying "Yup... same old Lightning!" To be honest I think the truth is somewhere between what you're saying and what I'm saying. I don't think starting years slowly is acceptable. I wish that would change But we all know it's not how you start but rather how you finish.

Like I said I'm gonna wait this out for a few more weeks. If the guys continue playing like this and there's no player only meeting, no turnaround and no change then I'll know for sure that Coop lost the locker room. We've seen slow starts reversed by strong finishes for 2 years now. If it happens a 3rd year then I have all the proof I need that Coop lets things ride no matter what happens.

 

[MattM92]

How can you justify not changing the coach when you continually say he does nothing? We argue that he doesn’t do his job and that’s why we’re bad. You argue that he doesn’t do his job and that’s why he should get credit when we play well. I don’t understand what your point is.

 

[These Are The Days]

How can you justify not changing the coach when you continually say he does nothing? We argue that he doesn’t do his job and that’s why we’re bad. You argue that he doesn’t do his job and that’s why he should get credit when we play well. I don’t understand what your point is.

Perhaps I need to change my statement. He does nothing differently. He's gonna do the same thing this month as he will in March. But if we lose 10 games in October and win 10 games in March then is the system REALLY broken Matt? No it's based on the effort of the players. Of course it's proper to correlate effort to coaching. But does Palat start the year poorly because of coaching or because that's who he is? We KNOW that's who he is.

Like I said. I'm fully expecting us to continue to play poorly and then we'll pull out of it. We've seen it happen twice. If it happens a third time then we know that it has absolutely nothing to do with Cooper how draws up the X's and O's and everything to do with the fact that we are slow starting team the frustrates the hell out of everyone and then finishes strong.

It's a terrible identity to take but I'm not gonna justify firing Cooper for someone like Lindy Ruff. God help us all if that happens

 

[These Are The Days]

PS- Not to mention that the whole thing turned around as soon as Stamkos and Callahan started traveling with the team last year.

Make no mistake. I'm not happy with this. But I ask myself "Hmm where have I seen this before" and I'm gonna see if my gut is right on this. If we don't turn it around then there's gonna be no choice but to fire Cooper

 

[Hoek]

Awful game.

I was running out of patience with Cooper last year, despite the end of year run and I've just about had it. His inability to adapt and motivate our players is infuriating. Surely if play keeps up like this, he doesn't make it until December.

If this isn't sorted out by Thanksgiving, time to promote Richards.