GDT: 10/7/17 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Florida

[DFC]

Same issues three straight seasons with breakouts, and somehow it's not Cooper. Okay buddy.

You're worse than Nick with Callahan.

Sort of like how the bad PP was never on Cooper either. Always on our players just not being good on the PP. And yet, Todd Richards comes in, and not only is the PP improved, but we can actually see HOW it's improved because we have a set break-in that works now.

The PP was an early warning sign on Coop. He doubled down on the same failed tactics for like three years.

 

[dechire]

Had problems with my tv so I haven't finished watching the game yet but man how embarrassing. Do they know that it isn't the pre-season anymore ? They might as well have not even showed up if they're going to put in so little effort.

 

[These Are The Days]

Seriously. What do you think coaches are actually responsible for? Because if "getting effort out of players" isn't top five on your list, I think your list is bad.

We'll never know what Coop says in the locker room between periods. Like I said, I'm waiting to see if we pick ourselves up. I'm curious to see if Coop gets ANY credit at all if we pick ourselves up again.

 

[DFC]

Waiting to see if the team picks itself up like in 2015-2016 makes me worse than Nick with Callahan? Just how much credit did Coop get for those 7 and 9 game win streaks when our breakout suddenly figured itself out literally overnight? Was Cooper in those player only meetings?

During at least one of those streaks, the majority of our players were AHL guys who weren't ingrained in Cooper's system.

I really believe this is why we tend to do better when our forwards get injured. Guys come up and just play on instinct, which often means, if they get the puck with speed, they don't, you know, pass it back to somebody waiting behind their own net.

 

[DFC]

We'll never know what Coop says in the locker room between periods. Like I said, I'm waiting to see if we pick ourselves up. I'm curious to see if Coop gets ANY credit at all if we pick ourselves up again.

We can see it on the ice. You're also giving him credit when you have no idea what he's actually contributing. Yet there's plenty of evidence that the system is failing. Again: Hedman. Stamkos. Kucherov. There might be 2-3 teams in the league, if that, that can boast a trio like that.

If we start seeing a motivated team, he'll get credit for motivating them. If we wait until February to get motivated, he'll get the blame he deserves for not motivating them sooner.

His system is like our PP. He keeps doubling down and doubling down and doubling down...

The reason why Point is so effective, and why Kuch was effective last year, when it comes to creating offense, is because those two just walk through defenses. The defense is always set up and waiting for us.

 

[The Macho King]

We'll never know what Coop says in the locker room between periods. Like I said, I'm waiting to see if we pick ourselves up. I'm curious to see if Coop gets ANY credit at all if we pick ourselves up again.

I love how you think it's rah rah rahs between periods that make a coach.

 

[DFC]

I love how you think it's rah rah rahs between periods that make a coach.

Especially when the rah rah rahs repeatedly fail. Then it's like, "Well, he rah'd his best. They just didn't respond."

Every one of those guys not named Point and Vasilevskiy should be walking funny because of their brand new second @$$hole tomorrow morning.

 

[dechire]

This team can't do anything without a Vezina caliber puck moving goaltender doing 1/2 the work for them. I don't care how they fix it but I don't want to watch another season of them sucking while every excuse in the world is made for their terrible play.

 

[These Are The Days]

I love how you think it's rah rah rahs between periods that make a coach.

The dude does nothing different. Like at all. Period end of story. Coop's solution to everything is to throw lines into a blender and pray that it works. We both know this is the truth. With that said, what the f*** else is there but rah rah rah coming from either Coop or the players? That's why I hinge our success and execution of the system on the players.

 

[These Are The Days]

During at least one of those streaks, the majority of our players were AHL guys who weren't ingrained in Cooper's system.

I really believe this is why we tend to do better when our forwards get injured. Guys come up and just play on instinct, which often means, if they get the puck with speed, they don't, you know, pass it back to somebody waiting behind their own net.

You mean last year or 2015-2016? Because after New Years the team got healthy and Callahan went absolutely crazy in February. The Tampacuse jokes were rampant from Thanksgiving to Christmas and JAM was the only player scoring with regularity and you likened us to the Oilers playing like the 1990's Devils because Coop doubled down on defense because we couldn't establish any freaking chemistry and getting 2 goals was a mission.

Honestly I'd have to check but I know you remember it was night and day. We didn't win all those games for nothing. We played fantastic and suddenly all those issues seemed behind us -which led to me believing it was chemistry issues. Coop sure as hell didn't do anything different.

 

[DFC]

The dude does nothing different. Like at all. Period end of story. Coop's solution to everything is to throw lines into a blender and pray that it works. We both know this is the truth. With that said, what the **** else is there but rah rah rah coming from either Coop or the players? That's why I hinge our success and execution of the system on the players.

...Or maybe the system doesn't work? Or at least, it doesn't work "enough."

In terms of effort, we should bag skate a couple of these guys until they puke. Tonight's culprit was Johnson. I say that not because he was bad all game, but because he was one of our better players in the 3rd period, and actually DOES look like "the old Tyler Johnson." ...When he wants to.

 

[Fabiobest]

I don't want to imagine what will happen to us on Monday, against Capitals, if we'll play like today...

 

[DFC]

You mean last year or 2015-2016? Because after New Years the team got healthy and Callahan went absolutely crazy in February. The Tampacuse jokes were rampant from Thanksgiving to Christmas and JAM was the only player scoring with regularity and you likened us to the Oilers playing like the 1990's Devils because Coop doubled down on defense because we couldn't establish any freaking chemistry and getting 2 goals was a mission.

Honestly I'd have to check but I know you remember it was night and day. We didn't win all those games for nothing. We played fantastic and suddenly all those issues seemed behind us -which led to me believing it was chemistry issues. Coop sure as hell didn't do anything different.

So maybe he should do something different. Because, even if I'm being really generous and give him 100% of the credit for two season saving streaks, he then has to take even more of the blame for not having the team prepared the rest of the time.

Tonight's loss was pretty scary. But it's mainly scary because there are no excuses now, we're fully healthy, we have a few incredible players, and the flaws are still right there. We can't get out of our own zone. It really does look like the final Boucher days, when we'd spend 2-5 minutes defending, except with a vastly improved personnel.

What's Coop's excuse for the horrendous PP we saw under him? Players not listening? Or was it maybe a systematic issue that's been more/less solved under Richards?

Coaching does matter. It's more than just rah rah.

 

[dechire]

I don't want to imagine what will happen to us on Monday, against Capitals, if we'll play like today...

Has anyone ever gotten hat tricks in 3 consecutive games ? Ovechkin might be making history.

 

[MattM92]

Didn’t you say you’re done defending Cooper? You’ve spent the last 3 pages defending Cooper.

 

[These Are The Days]

...Or maybe the system doesn't work? Or at least, it doesn't work "enough."

In terms of effort, we should bag skate a couple of these guys until they puke. Tonight's culprit was Johnson. I say that not because he was bad all game, but because he was one of our better players in the 3rd period, and actually DOES look like "the old Tyler Johnson." ...When he wants to.

I can even buy that. Like I said to Mach... Coop literally does nothing. We see it clear as day. That's why I hinge so much on our players and their level of effort. I mean suddenly our stagnant forecheck fixed itself when it didn't work for 2 months? lol it wasn't anything Coop did and that's why I didn't hold him responsible.

For what it's worth I was wrong about the PP but the advent of Drouin and loss of Stralman made things so much better. Kucherov becoming more selfish has helped too. If I had a dollar for every time he made an ill advised pass on the PP I'd have enough to buy a round of drinks for everyone here.

As for Johnson he's driving me crazy. I've started to wonder if we weren't just better off trading him and going with Point.

 

[MattM92]

Do you think that we just happen to have the monopoly on lazy players? You are arguing against logic to say that 23 guys are the problem, not 1.

 

[FinnLightning26]

I can even buy that. Like I said to Mach... Coop literally does nothing. We see it clear as day. That's why I hinge so much on our players and their level of effort. I mean suddenly our stagnant forecheck fixed itself when it didn't work for 2 months? lol it wasn't anything Coop did and that's why I didn't hold him responsible.

For what it's worth I was wrong about the PP but the advent of Drouin and loss of Stralman made things so much better. Kucherov becoming more selfish has helped too. If I had a dollar for every time he made an ill advised pass on the PP I'd have enough to buy a round of drinks for everyone here.

As for Johnson he's driving me crazy. I've started to wonder if we weren't just better off trading him and going with Point.

If Cooper does nothing, then what harm does changing the coach do? God forbid, the new guy might even formulate a couple of plans for our guys to succeed.

 

[These Are The Days]

Didn’t you say you’re done defending Cooper? You’ve spent the last 3 pages defending Cooper.

I said I couldn't defend putting Girardi with Hedan and that I had my reasons for doing defending him last year because I felt like he deserved a break. I'm not even defending him now. I'm waiting to see if the team picks itself up over the next few weeks. Because Lord knows Matt we could fix all our issues and play like champions on Monday and go on a 5 game win streak and no one is gonna say "Wow Coop has really done a good job" we're gonna wait til the next losing streak and suddenly the he needs to be fired again.

This team is lazy and I cannot be sure if tonight wasn't lack of effort alone or if it's solely the system that suddenly goes from working to not working. It's almost as if it's effort driven

 

[MattM92]

I can even buy that. Like I said to Mach... Coop literally does nothing. We see it clear as day. That's why I hinge so much on our players and their level of effort. I mean suddenly our stagnant forecheck fixed itself when it didn't work for 2 months? lol it wasn't anything Coop did and that's why I didn't hold him responsible.

For what it's worth I was wrong about the PP but the advent of Drouin and loss of Stralman made things so much better. Kucherov becoming more selfish has helped too. If I had a dollar for every time he made an ill advised pass on the PP I'd have enough to buy a round of drinks for everyone here.

As for Johnson he's driving me crazy. I've started to wonder if we weren't just better off trading him and going with Point.

>”The coach does nothing”
>???
>”That’s why it’s on the players”

 

[These Are The Days]

Do you think that we just happen to have the monopoly on lazy players? You are arguing against logic to say that 23 guys are the problem, not 1.

Perhaps Matt. But we've also carried like the same 18 of them for 4 years now.

 

[DFC]

I can even buy that. Like I said to Mach... Coop literally does nothing. We see it clear as day. That's why I hinge so much on our players and their level of effort. I mean suddenly our stagnant forecheck fixed itself when it didn't work for 2 months? lol it wasn't anything Coop did and that's why I didn't hold him responsible.

For what it's worth I was wrong about the PP but the advent of Drouin and loss of Stralman made things so much better. Kucherov becoming more selfish has helped too. If I had a dollar for every time he made an ill advised pass on the PP I'd have enough to buy a round of drinks for everyone here.

As for Johnson he's driving me crazy. I've started to wonder if we weren't just better off trading him and going with Point.

What you're saying is coaches don't matter. You're saying Cooper does "literally nothing," and yet somehow deserves credit when the team wins. What if we had a coach that actually contributed something? Like the way Richards takes advantage of our speed on PP zone entries? Maybe we should have an ES coach who could manage something like that. It's pretty clear Cooper can't.

We should have lost by 5 goals tonight.

 

[Fabiobest]

Has anyone ever gotten hat tricks in 3 consecutive games ? Ovechkin might be making history.

I'm worried about it...

 

[MattM92]

If a coach can’t motivate players and he “literally does nothing” then what is he doing as the coach of an NHL team?

The players are either

1) doing exactly what they are coached to do and that means Cooper needs to go

Or

2) the team is tuning Cooper out and that means Cooper needs to go

 

[DFC]

Perhaps Matt. But we've also carried like the same 18 of them for 4 years now.

That's kind of the way it works when the majority of your team is 22 (in 2014). You stick with them. And when the 1 coach loses them, you get a new coach.

Even if it IS on the players, you still get a new coach to send them a message.