GDT: 10/7/17 - 7:00PM EDT - Tampa Bay @ Florida

MattM92

Registered User
Dec 8, 2010
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I don’t know how many times we have to say it. “If the team consistently isn’t performing the way it should, that is a coaching problem”. We have too much talent to not occasionally win some games. We aren’t an expansion team, we have 3 of the top 15-20 players in the world. We’re gonna score goals and we’re going to win some games. The key problems that have been identified with this team are the defensive coverage and the breakout. Those are coaching specific problems. Doesn’t matter what players you put on the ice, if they don’t have any idea what to do they will scramble. Callahan has been one of the best defensive forwards in the league for a decade. Explain why he scrambles? Is it because he’s suddenly lazy? Because he suddenly can’t play defense?

TL;DR: We are too talented to not win some games. We are also too talented to not win more games. Fire Cooper.
 
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MattM92

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Dec 8, 2010
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I think Thanksgiving is too late. We saw last year how crucial those early season points are. Waiting until Thanksgiving to be .500 and fire Cooper will just make our task of making the playoffs harder.
 

Hoek

Legendary Poster A
May 12, 2003
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Okay.. the general rule of thumb is you should be in a playoff spot by Thanksgiving. If we are on a pace that makes even that task unlikely then we fire him before that.
 

Five Alarm Fire

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I think Thanksgiving is too late. We saw last year how crucial those early season points are. Waiting until Thanksgiving to be .500 and fire Cooper will just make our task of making the playoffs harder.

Well.. It's Canadian Thanksgiving right now, maybe that is a more appropriate deadline based on the comments in here lol. I didn't see either of the first two games but yikes even the highlights speak for themselves.
 

AlphaCatalyst

Elite Fan
Jun 27, 2007
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Perhaps I need to change my statement. He does nothing differently. He's gonna do the same thing this month as he will in March. But if we lose 10 games in October and win 10 games in March then is the system REALLY broken Matt? No it's based on the effort of the players. Of course it's proper to correlate effort to coaching. But does Palat start the year poorly because of coaching or because that's who he is? We KNOW that's who he is.

Like I said. I'm fully expecting us to continue to play poorly and then we'll pull out of it. We've seen it happen twice. If it happens a third time then we know that it has absolutely nothing to do with Cooper how draws up the X's and O's and everything to do with the fact that we are slow starting team the frustrates the hell out of everyone and then finishes strong.

It's a terrible identity to take but I'm not gonna justify firing Cooper for someone like Lindy Ruff. God help us all if that happens

OR and I’m just spit balling here. Maybe there is a coach who can implement a system that can use the strengths of the players so they start the season strong AND end it strong. Where we can win 10 in October AND 10 in March. That is why I want Cooper gone cause he has not been able to do that. It is time for someone else to have that chance.
 
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These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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Tampa Bay
OR and I’m just spit balling here. Maybe there is a coach who can implement a system that can use the strengths of the players so they start the season strong AND end it strong. Where we can win 10 in October AND 10 in March. That is why I want Cooper gone cause he has not been able to do that. It is time for someone else to have that chance.

That would be fair enough if there was someone who could do it. I don't trust guys like Ruff and Tippett as far as I can throw them and a guy like Barry Trotz (who is likely on the hotseat) has fallen short in the playoffs every year. Boudreau may be a dark horse to get fired but he falls short in the playoffs too as well and is like 1-7 all time in game 7. Patrick Roy is a petulant child and Michel Therrien coached himself out of a job and the only guy I want less than him is Dallas Eakins. Adam Oates has proven to be a great PP coach and that's about it. I felt like MacLean did well in Ottawa but he lost the room as fast as any coach I've ever seen and people are calling for Cooper's heads for a team that's just been playing poorly. Yzerman would have to hit a grand slam and there's a big chance it'll have to be someone totally new. And I'm not sold on Todd Richards either. Dude has never won anything and I don't buy that things are gonna suddenly change under him.

At this point I'd accept someone up and coing like Sheldon Keefe instead of retreads and assistants. He wouldn't be my first choice but I would give him a shot over ANY of those coaches I just named and that's saying a lot.
 

Todd1a

Kucherov or prospect
Jun 19, 2014
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I really think they got to give Todd Richards a shot heck the penguins changed coaches and got to cups . Mike Sullivan was not a big house hold name folks
 

JoVel

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Had him on the 4th line. Hasn’t stood out in a good or bad way.
I think kind of what we expected; he just kind of is there with a limited role and doesn't create much offense. He brings some energy and I'd guess leadership as well.
 
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These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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Tampa Bay
I don’t know how many times we have to say it. “If the team consistently isn’t performing the way it should, that is a coaching problem”. We have too much talent to not occasionally win some games. We aren’t an expansion team, we have 3 of the top 15-20 players in the world. We’re gonna score goals and we’re going to win some games. The key problems that have been identified with this team are the defensive coverage and the breakout. Those are coaching specific problems. Doesn’t matter what players you put on the ice, if they don’t have any idea what to do they will scramble. Callahan has been one of the best defensive forwards in the league for a decade. Explain why he scrambles? Is it because he’s suddenly lazy? Because he suddenly can’t play defense?

TL;DR: We are too talented to not win some games. We are also too talented to not win more games. Fire Cooper.

Bishop WAS our breakout and we stuck with it because it worked. How many times did we say "They just cannot play in front of Vasy" if there's fault to be had it's that this was not corrected over the years. It'll take time now but like I said it's possible we're just a slow starting team. A coach who is lousy as lousy as we make Cooper out to be does not take his team out of the Eastern Conference cellar twice in consecutive seasons -much less with an AHL caliber offense and our new #2 defenseman being Jake freaking Dotchin
 

MattM92

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Dec 8, 2010
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Bishop WAS our breakout and we stuck with it because it worked. How many times did we say "They just cannot play in front of Vasy" if there's fault to be had it's that this was not corrected over the years. It'll take time now but like I said it's possible we're just a slow starting team. A coach who is lousy as lousy as we make Cooper out to be does not take his team out of the Eastern Conference cellar twice in consecutive seasons -much less with an AHL caliber offense and our new #2 defenseman being Jake freaking Dotchin

Ok, and now we don’t have Bishop. What has been done to improve the team breakout? You’re not wrong that Bishop played a big part in the breakout. That has been pointed out for over a year now. But what has Cooper done to get the most from his current roster?

It shouldn’t take time. Vasi has been the starter since February. Cooper had all summer to figure it out. The team had several weeks of practice during preseason. There isn’t unlimited time to just keep giving chances.

And why is it that a roster with 3 of the best players in the world was even in the cellar in the first place? Two years in a row? If the play continues it could be 3 years in a row.
 

These Are The Days

Oh no! We suck again!!
May 17, 2014
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Tampa Bay
Ok, and now we don’t have Bishop. What has been done to improve the team breakout? You’re not wrong that Bishop played a big part in the breakout. That has been pointed out for over a year now. But what has Cooper done to get the most from his current roster?

I don't think it's happened yet. That's why I'm taking a "wait and see" on this. Rick Bowness works with the defense and PK and I imagine the onus is gonna be on him getting the guys figuring out the problem together. Like I said, I don't think Coop's system is broken like as badly as people say, I truly believe a lot of it is effort related as well as the fact that I think we're just a slow starting team. I've never seen a team change so much in so little time with so little intervention the way that we do. Like you always say getting the best out of your team IS coaching related. No arguments here. But if we finish the year at 102 points 2nd place in the Atlantic then I'll eventually get over my current frustration. I can deal with a team that starts slowly but makes the playoffs. It'll irritate me but I'll deal with Cooper's bull over a coach who has strong regular seasons and flops in the playoffs like Trotz, Boudreau, Therrien and Ruff.

But one thing is certain -if getting out of our zone continues to be this much of an issue then there's gonna be no choice but to fire him and the staff. They've had years to prepare for a life without Bishop (and enough practice at it to boot) and if they cannot figure out how to get us out of our own end in 5 minutes during the games then it'll be simply too little too late. It's a death sentence. The scary thing is that this was just the Panthers. Imagine what the Capitals are gonna do to us.

The clock is ticking...
 

The Macho King

Back* to Back** World Champion
Jun 22, 2011
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Bowness doesn't make the system. This is asinine. Walls of text saying nothing and living in a little region called Da Nile.
 

MattM92

Registered User
Dec 8, 2010
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Bowness might be in charge of the defense, but Cooper is the head coach. The buck stops there. Stop talking about what might happen. There isn’t time to “wait and see”. We tried that experiement last year and discovered we waited too long. This year there are literally 0 excuses. Healthy roster. Rested roster. No contract distractions. No Drouin drama. No leadership voids. All of the issues seen on the ice are coaching specific. As they have been for 3 years.
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
28,955
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lmfao and yet Cooper won more games with an AHL squad last year than Boucher could with his by the time he was fired and damn near made the playoffs with a goaltender that would fall apart every time he let in a softy.

You're talking about goaltending when comparing Coope vs Boucher? Is this for real? You know you've run out of arguments when...
 

Steazy Doo

Registered User
Jan 31, 2013
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I don't even know what to say about that game. One of the worst games I've ever watched this team play in a decade of watching pretty much every game. It's the start of the season for f*** sakes, there's something wrong here.

I've defended Cooper in the past, mostly because I believe Yzerman got a little (or a lot) involved at how this team should be playing. He's had his time and his training camps to force this new found defensive ideology into action, and it's simply not getting across. This seasonal start has been abysmal, and quite frankly, unacceptable. Jon Cooper is a good coach, but not for what Yzerman wants to do here, so Yzerman should just stop wasting his time trying to turn water into wine and just buy some f***ing wine.
 

Sky04

Registered User
Jan 8, 2009
28,955
17,896
Kunitz has been wholey ineffective thus far, invisible first game and blew an easy coverage on the 3rd or 4th goal ( we can probably expect more of this considering he's not exactly a two-way player). I'm still scratching my head over this signing - guy scored 29 points with Malkin as a primary linemate and PP time, how is he going to produce this year? and what does he bring when he doesnt? Peca would be a signigicant upgrade.
 

MattM92

Registered User
Dec 8, 2010
6,925
516
FL
You're talking about goaltending when comparing Coope vs Boucher? Is this for real? You know you've run out of arguments when...

Not to mention some of that “AHL roster” that Cooper got was better than a lot of what Boucher had. Boucher had such a top heavy team with 0K depth. Pretty much every roster Cooper has had was better than anything Boucher had. Not to defend Boucher because I also don’t think he was a good coach, but my lord don’t compare what they had to work with.

Edit: Just to be clear, that 0K is 0(zero)K(Kelvin) or absolute zero, not okay.
 
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