Confirmed with Link: Zucker to the Pens for 1st round pick, Gally, and Addison Part Duex

[Paulie Gualtieri]

I think Tanev will be worth his average cap hit of 3.5mil throughout the contract. Right now, he's worth more to us. Later down the road, maybe not. He'll slow down a bit and the hits will take their toll...but then I look at Horny who's as effective at 32 as he was at 27 so...

I would keep McCann over Tanev but probably not Kahun or Bleuger over Tanev. I feel like Bleugers are available in the league. Kahun would stink to lose but I think there's more Kahuns out there than Tanevs. So...McCann/Tanev/Kahun-Bleuger.

The reason I mentioned Blueger, is because I think he can become a good, dependable 3C in the near future. Not the easiest to acquire, as we all should know since Bonino left.

 

[Ugene Magic]

We have another full season of him so that will be the determining factor.

Then it becomes a matter of do you value a guy like Kahun more than you do what you have to pay to bribe Seattle.

If the answer is yes, then they can take Johnson and whatever we brive them.

It is assets you'd rather use differently, but it not a big deal to me.

Right now I've got a good feeling about Kahun but would still rather lose him than hand over assets and somebody else, as based on the Vegas draft you end up losing more that way. Easier to take the hit and move on. Very early days though.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If the team gets healthy(lol) this is the best group of forwards in the Crosby/Malkin era right?

In terms of the expansion draft, the thing I'm actually concerned about is Blueger getting taken in the draft. If he's gone, you kinda have to pay McCann whatever he wants because you don't have another 3C option. I don't think you can rationalize using a protection spot on Blueger, that's the issue.

 

[dogthateats]

Thought this was the Zucker thread

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Is that a limp I see? And a swollen left side of his face?

 

[Empoleon8771]

 

[wej20]

That suit has to be worth a 1st rounder on its own.

 

[Tom Hanks]

Well, would you really give assets to protect a Kahun?

I think GMs learned from the Vegas draft. We won't see as much "bribing" this time around.

Yeah that’s been reported that GM’s are more weary this time around. Just lose the one piece instead of potentially multiple pieces.

You really should be only losing a 3rd liner or low end middle pair D man

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Continue here

You're not my supervisor.

 

[Phil68]

I don't think Zucker will be a 30 goal scorer like he once was but 20 to 25 scorer at about 40 to 45 points during his stay with the pens. Will have less expectations once Jake returns.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think Zucker will be a 30 goal scorer like he once was but 20 to 25 scorer at about 40 to 45 points during his stay with the pens. Will have less expectations once Jake returns.

Well that would be a major disappointment for a winger who'll be playing 90% of his time with one of Crosby or Malkin.

 

[Andy99]

Well that would be a major disappointment for a winger who'll be playing 90% of his time with one of Crosby or Malkin.

especially someone who we got to help allay the scoring absence of Jake for the rest of this season/POs...again, I think he's a good player but I don't love him yet...hopefully he makes an impact soon...and on the scoresheet..

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I don't think Zucker will be a 30 goal scorer like he once was but 20 to 25 scorer at about 40 to 45 points during his stay with the pens. Will have less expectations once Jake returns.

Ya his 30 goal season was an outlier... people need to understand that.

Zucker is going to likely be as you said a 20-25 goal guy and frustrate people with his hands and playmaking at times.

That is why I wasn’t 100% sold on him, but his speed when he gets back to 100% will always be an asset this team needs.

Most people don’t seem to understand who Zucker is, so hopefully they don’t make him a whipping boy when they realize he’s not a playmaking, 30 goal scoring dangler.

 

[Peat]

Zucker probably only makes 30 goals regularly if he gets PP1 time. Might make it occasionally on best seasons through top 6 time and PP2.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Geno between Zucker and Rust is going to be awesome. Won't see it until October, but it is what it is. I just hope we get to see Kahun get some time with Sid because I do think he's just a way better Simon, and as good as we're gonna be able to do for the RW on Sid-Jake's line.

 

[The Old Master]

especially someone who we got to help allay the scoring absence of Jake for the rest of this season/POs...again, I think he's a good player but I don't love him yet...hopefully he makes an impact soon...and on the scoresheet..

i'm with you andy. but knowing how hard it is to fit in with this team and knowing he's coming off an injury. i'm more than willing to give him some time. there is still a lot going for him.imo
edit; on a side note....it looks to me that with the team going for speed , it might be better to go all in and bring up aj and maybe some others.

 

[madinsomniac]

Geno between Zucker and Rust is going to be awesome. Won't see it until October, but it is what it is. I just hope we get to see Kahun get some time with Sid because I do think he's just a way better Simon, and as good as we're gonna be able to do for the RW on Sid-Jake's line.

the forecheck on that line will be unreal

 

[Freeptop]

Well that would be a major disappointment for a winger who'll be playing 90% of his time with one of Crosby or Malkin.

Why? Scoring 20 goals in a season puts players pretty firmly in top six territory. Last season there where 121 forwards who scored 20 goals or more. There were 186 top six forward positions to fill.

I sometimes wonder what people's expectations are for scoring goals in the NHL. Yes, teams sometimes put a 20+ goal scorer on the third or fourth lines in order to force favorable matchups, but in order to do that, they end up putting < 20 goal scorers in the top six in return.

For example, in the 2016 playoffs, the Pens had Kessel on the third line, but in return, they had Sheary, Rust and Kunitz in the top six. Sheary had 7 goals (on pace for 14), Rust had 4 (on pace for 8), while Kunitz had 17 goals. For that matter, that Stanley Cup winning team only had four players in total that scored over 20 goals that season (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Hornqvist).

So I really don't understand why Zucker being a 20 goal scorer on this team would be "a major disappointment."

Maybe we've just all been spoiled by 2017, when the Pens had 7 forwards who either hit 20+ goals (Crosby, Malkin, Kessel, Sheary and Hornqvist) or were on pace for 20+ goals over 82 games (Guentzel and Rust). I'll just note that Kessel played on Malkin's line in the 2017 playoffs, and it was Rust who was moved down to the third line that year.

 

[EightyOne]

Maybe it's impact we're missing?

It felt like, over the last couple years, our top players seemed to have multi point nights on the same night.

So like Sid Geno Phil all had two points in like a 6-1 win.

Then do nothing the collectively the next two games.

I wish there were an easy way to look that up.

Just seemed like getting a bunch of points in a blowout is way less effective than in tight games when a goal is really needed.

 

[Gurglesons]

Well that would be a major disappointment for a winger who'll be playing 90% of his time with one of Crosby or Malkin.

Why? Kessel averaged 19 ES goals in his four season doing that. And was making substantially more money.

 

[EightyOne]

Why? Kessel averaged 19 ES goals in his four season doing that. And was making substantially more money.

Kessel cost the Pens only $1.3mil more because of retention.

I guess that's an entire 4th liner though, so substantially could count.

And we were all frustrated with him by the end.

A goal every four games would be IMMENSE for Sid line winger. Current nonJake winger for Sid is scoring every 8 games.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think considering his production in Minnesota, he should be hitting 25 goals and 55 points in Pittsburgh even without PP1 time. Over his last 4 years in Minnesota in Minnesota, he averaged 20 ES goals and 40 ES points per 82 games. He should get a bump at ES from playing with Crosby or Malkin on a strong offensive team.

If Zucker can't put up 25 goals and 55 points without #1 PP unit time, they paid a bad price for him. You can point to a lot of comparable wingers to Zucker that can put up those levels of production primarily at ES. The expectation should be that Zucker does the same, anything below what Saad did earlier in his career (usually 25 goals and 50-55 points with very little production on the PP) should be viewed as not good enough.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly, I'm surprised that people are saying they'd be satisfied with Zucker producing as little as 45 points. The comment I read from someone in the previous thread compared Zucker to the Hornqvist or Kunitz acquisition, and that level of production just isn't on par with that. Here's the production level of Kunitz during his peak offensive years with the Penguins at 5v5:

Kunitz 2011-2014: 208 games, 53 goals and 117 points, pace of 21 goals and 46 points per 82 games
Kunitz 2010-2012 and 2013-2014: 226 games, 55 goals and 114 points, pace of 20 goals and 41 points per 82 games

Looking at Kunitz from 2010-2014, while taking out the lockout season where he was over a PPG player, gives a more accurate view of what Kunitz was and is a more fair comparison to Zucker IMO. He was at almost exactly a pace of 20 5v5 goals and 40 5v5 points in each of those 3 years outside of the lockout year. But even in 2010-2011, Crosby and Malkin missed half of the year and Kunitz still had 48 points in 66 games. Now take into account that scoring today is higher than it was 5-8 years ago and it makes it even more unacceptable if Zucker can't be on par with him.

Hornqvist's production at 5v5 has never been on par with Kunitz's (Hornqvist is closer to 15 ES goals and 35 ES points per 82 games), but he's also an incredibly unique PP player. Zucker isn't going to offer that. I think people are setting low expectations so they don't get disappointed, but Zucker should be expected to at least match what prime Kunitz was able to do here. For the price they paid, that should be the expectation.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Honestly, I'm surprised that people are saying they'd be satisfied with Zucker producing as little as 45 points. The comment I read from someone in the previous thread compared Zucker to the Hornqvist or Kunitz acquisition, and that level of production just isn't on par with that. Here's the production level of Kunitz during his peak offensive years with the Penguins at 5v5:

Kunitz 2011-2014: 208 games, 53 goals and 117 points, pace of 21 goals and 46 points per 82 games
Kunitz 2010-2012 and 2013-2014: 226 games, 55 goals and 114 points, pace of 20 goals and 41 points per 82 games

Looking at Kunitz from 2010-2014, while taking out the lockout season where he was over a PPG player, gives a more accurate view of what Kunitz was and is a more fair comparison to Zucker IMO. He was at almost exactly a pace of 20 5v5 goals and 40 5v5 points in each of those 3 years outside of the lockout year. But even in 2010-2011, Crosby and Malkin missed half of the year and Kunitz still had 48 points in 66 games. Now take into account that scoring today is higher than it was 5-8 years ago and it makes it even more unacceptable if Zucker can't be on par with him.

Hornqvist's production at 5v5 has never been on par with Kunitz's (Hornqvist is closer to 15 ES goals and 35 ES points per 82 games), but he's also an incredibly unique PP player. Zucker isn't going to offer that. I think people are setting low expectations so they don't get disappointed, but Zucker should be expected to at least match what prime Kunitz was able to do here. For the price they paid, that should be the expectation.

Prime kunitz as a minimum is just a ridiculous bar. Dude was really damn good.

 

[Turin]

Zucker will be a 45-50 point player I think, unless he’s a mainstay on the first PP. Which combined with his solid overall play is about as good as you need.