Confirmed with Link: Zucker to the Pens for 1st round pick, Gally, and Addison Part Duex

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IcedCapp

Registered User
Aug 7, 2009
35,854
11,225
@P10p honestly thought you were in the wrong thread. Don’t think any Pens fan cares about who is younger or if Galchenyuk will rebound. Those seems like things Wild fans would care about. Sorry if you actually meant to post it here. My reply probably wouldn’t change too much.
 

Rave7215

Registered User
Mar 12, 2010
476
778
As JR said. “You shouldn’t try to win every trade”. I like how he deals. It builds good business with other teams ala ANA.

It's hard, as fans, to really step back and look at factors outside of the trade and value aspects that are tangible. It's easy to break it down into the simplest form of "What we got" vs. "What we gave up" since that's really what most care about. The more I think on this trade, from a bigger business perspective, the more it makes sense to me and why I think JR is a good GM and is respected around the league.

People talk about Billy G holding JR to the fire to get what he wants but that implies a negativity and us vs them mentality that I don't think exists here. Billy G is one of JR's guys and a former Pen. JR is holding true to his words, quoted above here. Billy G needed to make sure his first trade was successful. It would be awful optics to have your first major trade fall flat in the eyes of the fans. It's even worse if you gave a perceived deal to the team you just came from (despite not being true, but you know how fan bases can be). There was 0% we were going to get Zucker for scraps. Working on a deal that returns well for the Wild and getting the guy the Pens must have works for both camps. It shows Billy G is a competent GM and gives JR even more credibility around the league. That credibility and reputation goes a long way in making deals in the future with other GMs.

Honestly, it is why, despite teams getting sick of the Penguins success, that they continue to still deal with them. JR isn't out to screw anyone over and still make his team better at the same time. It's really quite masterful, looking at his history. My gut reaction was also "That's a lot" but having digested the circumstances, I've come around to believe this is fair value for each side. With Zucker on board, the forward group should be stacked for years and that is exciting.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,148
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Pittsburgh
It is the same rules than the Vegas draft.

The new team must select a player from each team (minus VGK): Seattle 2021 NHL Expansion Draft rules same as Golden Knights followed

We can protect either 7 forwards, 3 dmen and 1 goalie OR 8 skaters + 1 goalie.

So, yes, we can only lose one.

That's dependant on what Seattle will want from the Pens to take the guy the Pens want them to.

Protection is best at the 7-3-1 format for the Pens. Unless, the Pens pay for them to take _?_ and which it doesn't matter. Like, giving them a smorgasbord of options is really not a good idea anyways.

7 forwards:

Crosby
Malkin
Guentzel
Rust
Zucker
Tanev
1 of McCann/Kahun

Defense:

They are set.

Letang
Dumo
Pettersson
Marino is auto protected already

Goaltender:

They have to trade out one or the other.

Murray/Jarry

What's left:

F: - Hornqvist, 1 of McCann/Kahun, Simon, Blueger, ZAR and a number of prospects
D: - Johnson, Riikola
G: - DeSmith

Now add they probably will add another forward and D-man over the next season and the Pens will be forced to trade away more than just a pick to protect who they want. Some teams gave up multiple picks, roster players and picks and even 1st rounders.

So, when you say just 1, yeah, they get just one to take, but could be given more to make sure they take what the Pens want them to take. The Pens were fine with giving up Fleury considering their depth, and a 2nd.

How much do you think it would cost for them to take Hornqvist or Johnson?

It won't be just 1 asset on top. The Pens could lose a considerable roster player and... On top of what they take.
 

SHOOTANDSCORE

Eeny Meeny Miny Moe
Sep 25, 2005
10,952
4,675
We’re entering a window of drafts that will have almost no impact on the Sid-Geno era. Anyone we draft in the late 1st round (or later) is probably 3 years away from contributing in the nhl. What’s the Sid/Geno window at this point? 4 years, maybe? We’re already seeing some decline. If you can turn assets that won’t be a part of that window for assets that will be legit nhl contributors in that window, why wouldn’t you? You hope our 1st round pick or Addison become close to what Zucker is. We paid that cost to fast forward 7 years on the development.

I don’t know rational way to call that an overpay
This is how I see it as well. I thought that maybe our 1st this year could have a chance to break in on the tail end of the window but Jake's injury put an end to that. So from here on out, we're pretty much "all in" when it comes to draft picks. Maybe we see a few deals similar to the Marino one where we move picks for more developed prospects. Beyond that I view anyone drafted from this point forward to be more of an asset than a prospect.
 

Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
Mar 11, 2002
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That's dependant on what Seattle will want from the Pens to take the guy the Pens want them to.

Protection is best at the 7-3-1 format for the Pens. Unless, the Pens pay for them to take _?_ and which it doesn't matter. Like, giving them a smorgasbord of options is really not a good idea anyways.

7 forwards:

Crosby
Malkin
Guentzel
Rust
Zucker
Tanev
1 of McCann/Kahun

Defense:

They are set.

Letang
Dumo
Pettersson
Marino is auto protected already

Goaltender:

They have to trade out one or the other.

Murray/Jarry

What's left:

F: - Hornqvist, 1 of McCann/Kahun, Simon, Blueger, ZAR and a number of prospects
D: - Johnson, Riikola
G: - DeSmith

Now add they probably will add another forward and D-man over the next season and the Pens will be forced to trade away more than just a pick to protect who they want. Some teams gave up multiple picks, roster players and picks and even 1st rounders.

So, when you say just 1, yeah, they get just one to take, but could be given more to make sure they take what the Pens want them to take. The Pens were fine with giving up Fleury considering their depth, and a 2nd.

How much do you think it would cost for them to take Hornqvist or Johnson?

It won't be just 1 asset on top. The Pens could lose a considerable roster player and... On top of what they take.

Well, would you really give assets to protect a Kahun?

I think GMs learned from the Vegas draft. We won't see as much "bribing" this time around.
 

Ugene Magic

EVIL LAUGH
Oct 17, 2008
54,148
18,548
Pittsburgh
Well, would you really give assets to protect a Kahun?

I think GMs learned from the Vegas draft. We won't see as much "bribing" this time around.

If they feel Kahun can give more than he has in the future, Yes. Kahun is only scratching the surface.

If you have quality assets, a lot of them, you will still see teams give up assets to protect who they feel are their future assets.
 

Scandale du Jour

JordanStaal#1Fan
Mar 11, 2002
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If they feel Kahun can give more than he has in the future, Yes. Kahun is only scratching the surface.

If you have quality assets, a lot of them, you will still see teams give up assets to protect who they feel are their future assets.

Then it becomes a matter of do you value a guy like Kahun more than you do what you have to pay to bribe Seattle.

If the answer is yes, then they can take Johnson and whatever we brive them.

It is assets you'd rather use differently, but it not a big deal to me.
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,290
25,206
Well, would you really give assets to protect a Kahun?

I think GMs learned from the Vegas draft. We won't see as much "bribing" this time around.

Right now I've got a good feeling about Kahun but would still rather lose him than hand over assets and somebody else, as based on the Vegas draft you end up losing more that way. Easier to take the hit and move on. Very early days though.
 
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Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,014
32,190
Well, would you really give assets to protect a Kahun?

I think GMs learned from the Vegas draft. We won't see as much "bribing" this time around.

Our forward protected list atm is easy... Sid, Geno, Jake guaranteed, and then four of Zucker, Rust, McCann,Kahun, Blueger, and Tanev, depending on how they all play over the next year.....it will all be figured out and won’t be tough, and someone worth some assets could be traded in season..in fact Rust with one year left on his contract could be the guy exposed depending on if this is just a career year for him.....ZAR, Horny, Simon would all be exposed....Horny must be exposed
 

Freeptop

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
2,335
1,200
Pittsburgh, PA
I'd protect both McCann and Kahun ahead of Tanev.

I've come around on Tanev, but he's still a bottom six forward, while McCann and Kahun are middle six with top six potential.

The "bribe" to get Seattle to pass over Tanev would be cheaper than it would be to keep them from selecting a top six forward.

Of course, all of this may well be moot, since there's all of next season to get through, and you never know what JR will do with the roster between now and then.
 
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Paulie Gualtieri

R.I.P. Tony Sirico
May 18, 2016
12,312
3,052
Love Tanev, but yeah, I'm not protecting him over two of McCann, Kahun or Blueger. Don't think the tail end of his contract will look too good, and the other three will just keep improving.
 
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CrosbyMalkin

Registered User
Aug 7, 2005
6,700
1,722
That's dependant on what Seattle will want from the Pens to take the guy the Pens want them to.

Protection is best at the 7-3-1 format for the Pens. Unless, the Pens pay for them to take _?_ and which it doesn't matter. Like, giving them a smorgasbord of options is really not a good idea anyways.

7 forwards:

Crosby
Malkin
Guentzel
Rust
Zucker
Tanev
1 of McCann/Kahun

Defense:

They are set.

Letang
Dumo
Pettersson
Marino is auto protected already

Goaltender:

They have to trade out one or the other.

Murray/Jarry

What's left:

F: - Hornqvist, 1 of McCann/Kahun, Simon, Blueger, ZAR and a number of prospects
D: - Johnson, Riikola
G: - DeSmith

Now add they probably will add another forward and D-man over the next season and the Pens will be forced to trade away more than just a pick to protect who they want. Some teams gave up multiple picks, roster players and picks and even 1st rounders.

So, when you say just 1, yeah, they get just one to take, but could be given more to make sure they take what the Pens want them to take. The Pens were fine with giving up Fleury considering their depth, and a 2nd.

How much do you think it would cost for them to take Hornqvist or Johnson?

It won't be just 1 asset on top. The Pens could lose a considerable roster player and... On top of what they take.

Hornqvist has to be protected because of the no trade clause. So unfortunately we will be losing a very good forward at that time. Honestly that is a big reason I want to keep both goalies until then. We can protect the goalie we want and they will pick our goalie we don't protect. That way we don't lose McCann or Kahun.

I won't worry about that or anything because things change so fast. Look at this Pens team and how many new players are on the roster just in the past year. McCann, Bjugstad, Tanev, Kahun, Zucker, Pettersson, and Marino. Heck even Jarry was not on the team last year even though he saw a decent amount of time the year before. Literally 1/3 of the team is new from last year and that is when we are healthy and not counting the Lafferty's of the world.

Love the trade and the forward depth will be insane next year.

Zucker-Crosby-Kahun
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
McCann/Simon-Bjugstad/McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Depending on if Rutherford believes Bjugstad or McCann is the 3C next year. If McCann is the 3C then Bjugstad is out and Simon is in. Let's win the Cup this year first.
 

Andy99

Registered User
Jun 26, 2017
50,014
32,190
Hornqvist has to be protected because of the no trade clause. So unfortunately we will be losing a very good forward at that time. Honestly that is a big reason I want to keep both goalies until then. We can protect the goalie we want and they will pick our goalie we don't protect. That way we don't lose McCann or Kahun.

I won't worry about that or anything because things change so fast. Look at this Pens team and how many new players are on the roster just in the past year. McCann, Bjugstad, Tanev, Kahun, Zucker, Pettersson, and Marino. Heck even Jarry was not on the team last year even though he saw a decent amount of time the year before. Literally 1/3 of the team is new from last year and that is when we are healthy and not counting the Lafferty's of the world.

Love the trade and the forward depth will be insane next year.

Zucker-Crosby-Kahun
Guentzel-Malkin-Rust
McCann/Simon-Bjugstad/McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Blueger-Tanev

Depending on if Rutherford believes Bjugstad or McCann is the 3C next year. If McCann is the 3C then Bjugstad is out and Simon is in. Let's win the Cup this year first.

We do not need to protect Horny...he doesn’t have a NMC which is the only thing that counts in the expansion draft rules and moreover, his full NTC becomes a modified one after next season...so after next season he needs to be exposed in the draft or traded imo
 

SEALBound

Fancy Gina Carano
Sponsor
Jun 13, 2010
40,095
18,202
Knowing that Sid, Malkin, Rust, Jake, Zucker (and Kahun?) will be apart of the top 6 for the next couple of years make me excited.

And yet, the ever elusive RW for Crosby slot remains open. Kahun? Simon? Anton Zlobin? Bjorkqvist? Who knows.

Love Tanev, but yeah, I'm not protecting him over two of McCann, Kahun and Blueger. Don't think the tail end of his contract will look too good, and the other three will just keep improving.

I think Tanev will be worth his average cap hit of 3.5mil throughout the contract. Right now, he's worth more to us. Later down the road, maybe not. He'll slow down a bit and the hits will take their toll...but then I look at Horny who's as effective at 32 as he was at 27 so...

I would keep McCann over Tanev but probably not Kahun or Bleuger over Tanev. I feel like Bleugers are available in the league. Kahun would stink to lose but I think there's more Kahuns out there than Tanevs. So...McCann/Tanev/Kahun-Bleuger.
 
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