Confirmed with Link: Zucker to the Pens for 1st round pick, Gally, and Addison Part Duex

[Empoleon8771]

I'd say there's still a good chance we go in to next year with Guentzel on Sid's LW and Zucker with Geno. It will be awesome to have that option to change it up. I think both should work.

Yeah I think either one is fine, but based on how Guentzel-Malkin-Rust were basically globetrotters this year, I think they should at least start with going back to that. If Zucker meshes with Crosby, I think Sullivan will stick with Zucker-Crosby and Guentzel-Malkin going forward just because you don't know if Zucker-Malkin will work.

I think Guentzel is so good that he can play with either, because he's an elite complementary player that has a wide range of talents. Zucker would probably also fit with Malkin, but I'd only break up Guentzel and Malkin if Zucker and Crosby just isn't working together.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah I think either one is fine, but based on how Guentzel-Malkin-Rust were basically globetrotters this year, I think they should at least start with going back to that. If Zucker meshes with Crosby, I think Sullivan will stick with Zucker-Crosby and Guentzel-Malkin going forward just because you don't know if Zucker-Malkin will work.

I think Guentzel is so good that he can play with either, because he's an elite complementary player that has a wide range of talents. Zucker would probably also fit with Malkin, but I'd only break up Guentzel and Malkin if Zucker and Crosby just isn't working together.

eh, I'm all for seeing what both can do. It's a long season, no reason not to try it imo. Either way, we can cross that bridge when we get there.

 

[CascadiaPenguin]

Bizarre statistical coincidence: Galchenyuk has 132 career goals as of the trade date. Likewise, Zucker had 132 as well. Kind of weird, though obviously meaningless...

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

Sounds like we did well compared to the Coleman trade. We got the better player and for more years. They gave up a higher 1st and a better prospect and didn't get the salary dump. At that cap hit they didn't need it though. All take 3 1/2 years of Zucker over 1 1/2 years of Coleman and we got it cheaper.

 

[td_ice]

I know that +/- is more of a team stat, and absolutely needs context when viewing, but thought it was pretty cool, seeing this stat today.

That in '16-'17, Zucker led the league with a +34. (Parise was a -3 on that team.)

 

[harmonica]

Sounds like we did well compared to the Coleman trade. We got the better player and for more years. They gave up a higher 1st and a better prospect and didn't get the salary dump. At that cap hit they didn't need it though. All take 3 1/2 years of Zucker over 1 1/2 years of Coleman and we got it cheaper.

Im fairly certain Addison is considered a better prospect at this point over Nolan. However his brother Cal is above Calen.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Im fairly certain Addison is considered a better prospect at this point over Nolan. However his brother Cal is above Calen.

Just looking at it, they are roughly equivalent packages.

Coleman's cap hit is a dream but it's only through next year. Zucker is fairly paid based on the caliber of player he is and for a longer time. But bear in mind that the difference in Coleman and Zucker's salaries is such that it's going to cost us a good player this summer. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Peat]

The only direct comparison of where Foote and Addison are today is Pronman's prospect rankings, which had Foote at 48th and Addison at 52nd. My guess is that if you've got a room of scouts together and asked them what they thought, you'd have a fairly split room.

 

[harmonica]

Just looking at it, they are roughly equivalent packages.

Coleman's cap hit is a dream but it's only through next year. Zucker is fairly paid based on the caliber of player he is and for a longer time. But bear in mind that the difference in Coleman and Zucker's salaries is such that it's going to cost us a good player this summer. Your mileage may vary.

I was just comparing prospects.

Coleman is a great and an underrated player, a reason so many people are shocked at what was paid for him, because GMs know his value. His contract hit is exceptional and also boosts his value, especially for a team like the Bolts.

I still think we got a better trade as we improve by getting rid of Galchenyuk, traded a lesser pick, slightly better prospect but got a better player.

I fully expect us to part ways with Bjugstad in addition to letting Schultz walk, which won’t be enough to hold on to everyone. Additionally I could see us trading Kahun as he unfortunately falls in to the odd man out category as he will command a fair bit more than guys like ZAR and Simon and will also bring a better return. Hopefully JR can convince him to a Pettersson sort of one year deal, although off the top of my head I can’t remember if this would keep him under RFA status. Plus we will still need to get another dman. I also don’t think Poulin will be ready to join us without some seasoning in the AHL.

No idea what JR will do with Murray and Jarry. I am guessing he would try and keep both somehow and trade before the expansion draft or make another Vegas like deal with Seattle. But something could also occur this off season. It would be great if we could get another season of split duty to get a bigger sample size of Jarry, but the situation is what it is. But if we do deal Murray this off season, it really opens up a ton of cap space to move forward, but keeping Jarry carries its own risks.

Or maybe GMJR finally gets rid of JJ.

I am not too concerned as the problem/dilemma we face is better than what almost the entire league has to deal with.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Im fairly certain Addison is considered a better prospect at this point over Nolan. However his brother Cal is above Calen.

How so? Foote was drafted higher in his respective draft, Pronman's ranking has him as a slightly better prospect and it's not like Addison has had some standout junior career. There are concerns relating to Foote's skating, but it's a real stretch to say that Addison is considered a better prospect. Both are roughly equivalent B prospects.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I was just comparing prospects.

Coleman is a great and an underrated player, a reason so many people are shocked at what was paid for him, because GMs know his value. His contract hit is exceptional and also boosts his value, especially for a team like the Bolts.

I still think we got a better trade as we improve by getting rid of Galchenyuk, traded a lesser pick, slightly better prospect but got a better player.

I fully expect us to part ways with Bjugstad in addition to letting Schultz walk, which won’t be enough to hold on to everyone. Additionally I could see us trading Kahun as he unfortunately falls in to the odd man out category as he will command a fair bit more than guys like ZAR and Simon and will also bring a better return. Hopefully JR can convince him to a Pettersson sort of one year deal, although off the top of my head I can’t remember if this would keep him under RFA status. Plus we will still need to get another dman. I also don’t think Poulin will be ready to join us without some seasoning in the AHL.

No idea what JR will do with Murray and Jarry. I am guessing he would try and keep both somehow and trade before the expansion draft or make another Vegas like deal with Seattle. But something could also occur this off season. It would be great if we could get another season of split duty to get a bigger sample size of Jarry, but the situation is what it is. But if we do deal Murray this off season, it really opens up a ton of cap space to move forward, but keeping Jarry carries its own risks.

Or maybe GMJR finally gets rid of JJ.

I am not too concerned as the problem/dilemma we face is better than what almost the entire league has to deal with.

I don't know if Zucker is a better player than Coleman. I think they are both good, but different, players. I also don't think Galchenyuk had negative value. I truly don't. Galchenyuk can be healthy-scratched and would be a pro about it. He's also not signed past this year.

As for this offseason, I agree that clearly Bjugs and Schultz are gone.

I also think that GMJR explores the trade markets for Kahun and McCann. I think he and the team would like to hang onto McCann more given his ability to play center but we may find that McCann is worth a lot on the market and gets us back into the first round of this year's draft. Whereas I think Kahun in the offseason would net us a 2nd + decent prospect. Having said that Kahun is the more logical player to leave given Jake + Zucker + Poulin knocking on the door.

I also think he signs both Jarry and Murray to long-term deals but crucially leaves out the NTCs or makes them extremely limited.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't know if Zucker is a better player than Coleman.

Nah, Zucker is 1000% a better player than Coleman. Suggesting otherwise is putting too high of a value on grit and analytics. Coleman has never even hit 40 points or 30 ES points in a season, while that would be considered a down year for Zucker (Zucker's 18-19 was that). Coleman is closer to someone like Hagelin, a great analytical player who gets overrated because people overrate analytics.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Nah, Zucker is 1000% a better player than Coleman. Suggesting otherwise is putting too high of a value on grit and analytics. Coleman has never even hit 40 points in a season, while 40 points is a down year for Zucker. Coleman is closer to someone like Hagelin, a great analytical player who gets overrated because people overrate analytics.

1) He's about to hit 40 points this year. He has 17 even-strength goals on a bad team this year. Ha also outscored Zucker at even-strength last year.
2) Didn't the Penguins just give a similar player in Brandon Tanev a boatload of money & years?

Look I don't watch the guy enough to have a good sense of it, but this argument basically boils down to:

A) Average top-6 winger (Zucker)
B) Elite bottom-6 center (Coleman)

In my mind A & B are equal, value-wise.

 

[PensandCaps]

Nah, Zucker is 1000% a better player than Coleman. Suggesting otherwise is putting too high of a value on grit and analytics. Coleman has never even hit 40 points or 30 ES points in a season, while that would be considered a down year for Zucker (Zucker's 18-19 was that). Coleman is closer to someone like Hagelin, a great analytical player who gets overrated because people overrate analytics.

id take coleman over zucker purley because he's a C who gets hard minutes and scores 20 goals still.
(38% Ozone starts) ( almost 3 mins PK time per game)

Edit: Guess hes played wing more than C, but is capable there.

but Zucker is signed longer , so i think our trade was better.

 

[Empoleon8771]

1) He's about to hit 40 points this year. He has 17 even-strength goals on a bad team this year. Ha also outscored Zucker at even-strength last year.
2) Didn't the Penguins just give a similar player in Brandon Tanev a boatload of money & years?

Look I don't watch the guy enough to have a good sense of it, but this argument basically boils down to:

A) Average top-6 winger (Zucker)
B) Elite bottom-6 center (Coleman)

In my mind A & B are equal, value-wise.

Yeah, but I'd sure as hell not say that Tanev is better than Zucker

Coleman also isn't a center in the NHL, he's a 3rd line grinder that's a little bit better than Tanev. An average top-6 winger is better 100% of the time than an elite 3rd line grinder. If Coleman was better than Zucker, he'd be an actual top-6 winger, not a 3rd liner. Coleman is in the same category as Tanev and Hagelin.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yeah, but I'd sure as hell not say that Tanev is better than Zucker

Coleman also isn't a center in the NHL, he's a 3rd line grinder that's a little bit better than Tanev. An average top-6 winger is better 100% of the time than an elite 3rd line grinder. If Coleman was better than Zucker, he'd be an actual top-6 winger, not a 3rd liner. Coleman is in the same category as Tanev and Hagelin.

I don't know if Zucker > Tanev. Comparing them is apples to oranges. I am happy we have both.

 

[Turin]

Zucker is better than Coleman.

And as president of the Tanev fan club, Zucker is definitely better than him. Cmon.

 

[Peat]

I don't know if Zucker > Tanev. Comparing them is apples to oranges. I am happy we have both.

In terms of trade value and cap hits, Zuckers usually get more than Tanevs. I'm not sure that's how it should be, I think this league maybe overvalues production vs team play, but that's the way it is.

 

[ChaosAgent]

In terms of trade value and cap hits, Zuckers usually get more than Tanevs. I'm not sure that's how it should be, I think this league maybe overvalues production vs team play, but that's the way it is.

You and I are right there together. That's why I think a Tanev is as good as a Zucker.

But to be clear, both are good and I'm glad we have them.

 

[Gurglesons]

In what way is Coleman better than Zucker?

I’m so confused by how this board views Zucker.

Would you guys take Coleman over Rust, because Zucker is essentially Rust on steroids.

 

[Peat]

You and I are right there together. That's why I think a Tanev is as good as a Zucker.

But to be clear, both are good and I'm glad we have them.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. Zucker's a pretty darn good team player in his own right. But I'd be curious to see how many goals Tanev got with Zucker's opportunities.

 

[Louis Hensler]

I don't know if Zucker is a better player than Coleman. I think they are both good, but different, players. I also don't think Galchenyuk had negative value. I truly don't. Galchenyuk can be healthy-scratched and would be a pro about it. He's also not signed past this year.

As for this offseason, I agree that clearly Bjugs and Schultz are gone.

I also think that GMJR explores the trade markets for Kahun and McCann. I think he and the team would like to hang onto McCann more given his ability to play center but we may find that McCann is worth a lot on the market and gets us back into the first round of this year's draft. Whereas I think Kahun in the offseason would net us a 2nd + decent prospect. Having said that Kahun is the more logical player to leave given Jake + Zucker + Poulin knocking on the door.

I also think he signs both Jarry and Murray to long-term deals but crucially leaves out the NTCs or makes them extremely limited.

Tons of cap space opening this summer: 1. Horny -- no such thing as a 4th liner making 5.3M. 2. Schultz -- already surpassed on ice by Marino -- you don't pay 5.5M+ to a 3D, which is what Schultz is on this team. 3. Bjugstad -- never got a chance to find out whether his $4.1M made sense -- will be someone else's problem now. Figure Kahun and McCann sign at $3.5M each -- that's a $5M net increase. That leaves about $10M to sign goalies and fill holes. Might have to lose either Murray or Jarry. Bjugstad and Simon (and one goalie --don't forget CDS -- if need be) can be dealt for affordable players to fill holes. It's a tall order, but HoFGMJR has handled much tougher tasks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

In what way is Coleman better than Zucker?

I’m so confused by how this board views Zucker.

Would you guys take Coleman over Rust, because Zucker is essentially Rust on steroids.

Well, we don't have him, so he's naturally better. Otherwise, we'd be aware of his flaws and we'd be ready to trade him back for nothing.

 

[Andy99]

Tons of cap space opening this summer: 1. Horny -- no such thing as a 4th liner making 5.3M. 2. Schultz -- already surpassed on ice by Marino -- you don't pay 5.5M+ to a 3D, which is what Schultz is on this team. 3. Bjugstad -- never got a chance to find out whether his $4.1M made sense -- will be someone else's problem now. Figure Kahun and McCann sign at $3.5M each -- that's a $5M net increase. That leaves about $10M to sign goalies and fill holes. Might have to lose either Murray or Jarry. Bjugstad and Simon (and one goalie --don't forget CDS -- if need be) can be dealt for affordable players to fill holes. It's a tall order, but HoFGMJR has handled much tougher tasks.

Horny still has a full NTC for next year, so he's not going anywhere unless he wants to...in part, that's part of the cap crunch we're facing and why Murray most likely has to be dealt...

 

[Louis Hensler]

Horny still has a full NTC for next year, so he's not going anywhere unless he wants to...in part, that's part of the cap crunch we're facing and why Murray most likely has to be dealt...

Just checked and was surprised to find that you're right. Perhaps that's why he's playing 4th line minutes? Maybe the Pens are subtly convincing him to accept an 0ffseason trade by showing him what his future with this team will be like?