News Article: Zetterberg to decide future later in July

[kliq]

Wings will get hit with recapture, but the Devils ultimately got off with no penalty AND Kovy is back in the NHL. Figure that one out.

If he if retires yes, not if he goes on LTIR, which with his back issues I think is a strong possibility. I can't see Z just stepping down if he's healthy, if he's done I would bet anything that he is in pain.

 

[avssuc]

If he if retires yes, not if he goes on LTIR, which with his back issues I think is a strong possibility. I can't see Z just stepping down if he's healthy, if he's done I would bet anything that he is in pain.

Bad news is, that pretty much maxes the LTIR until 2020-2021 when you consider the 10% summer overage. Probably won't make much difference, but it could. Honestly, I thought this would have been a bigger problem. Happy that, so far, I was wrong.

 

[kliq]

Bad news is, that pretty much maxes the LTIR until 2020-2021 when you consider the 10% summer overage. Probably won't make much difference, but it could. Honestly, I thought this would have been a bigger problem. Happy that, so far, I was wrong.

Worst case scenario, you could always trade the contract (or Franzen's) to a team trying to hit the floor. I believe Franzen holds a 4mil cap hit, but only pays 1mil. Something like, Wings trade Franzen to Arizona for some player who's caphit is 1.5 mil for a year. I think Philly did this with Pronger.

 

[Henkka]

Bad news is, that pretty much maxes the LTIR until 2020-2021 when you consider the 10% summer overage. Probably won't make much difference, but it could. Honestly, I thought this would have been a bigger problem. Happy that, so far, I was wrong.

I think Zetterberg will play this year and then those double LTIR's would be in effect only at 2019-20 season. But then we have least cap problems. Howard,Kronwall,Nyquist,Vanek off the books. Cheap ELCs like Rasmussen, Zadina, Veleno, Cholowski, Hronek in. There's no pushes for raises, kind of... any. Nick Jensen is the only one and he could get 500k more.

The loss for not using full 10% summer cap overage would be only 2M, (because we could use max 8M and need would be 10M) and cap is gonna rise 4M. This is mostly a problem that does not exist.

Franzen contract is off the books at 2020-21, then one Zetterberg contract in LTIR doesn't mattter at all.

 

[Invictus12]

If Zetterberg is contemplating retirement, that probably explains the Vanek signing better than any other theory I've heard here so far. If he does stay, I really hope we put him on the wing and a less heavy duties.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Weber would only be 40 when his contract ends, and I think it's unlikely he walks for at least another five years. And I'm not sure why he would straight retire or do anything that wouldn't allow him to collect on the last few years of that deal (he'll go the same LTIR route we are pushing for Z).

Also, in five years, the cap could be over $100m or Nashville is tearing down to a point where whatever recapture penalty hits them might be a welcomed way of gaming the salary floor.

Because the bulk of the recapture hit lands on Nashville, not Montreal. And Montreal isn't going to put Weber on LTIR for funsies to help out Nashville. And said recapture pool on Nashville is LOCKED unless they trade for Weber again and he plays a couple of the low salary years for them.

Basically, Nashville owes ~24M in recapture fees for Weber as it stands and Montreal is in no position where they'd have to LTIR Weber to avoid any gigantic penalty. They'll get about 1.5M max in recapture in Montreal and that's if he plays until the last year and quits.

 

[Winger98]

Because the bulk of the recapture hit lands on Nashville, not Montreal. And Montreal isn't going to put Weber on LTIR for funsies to help out Nashville. And said recapture pool on Nashville is LOCKED unless they trade for Weber again and he plays a couple of the low salary years for them.

Basically, Nashville owes ~24M in recapture fees for Weber as it stands and Montreal is in no position where they'd have to LTIR Weber to avoid any gigantic penalty. They'll get about 1.5M max in recapture in Montreal and that's if he plays until the last year and quits.

Montreal doesn't necessarily have a lot to say about it if Weber doesn't want to just forfeit those last few paychecks. In five years, at the age of 37 and enduring over 15 years of professional hockey, I'm willing to bet he could walk into any doctor's office, say X hurts and legitimately be put on LTIR. I don't think he'd even have to fake it. He'd just have to be honest and be unwilling to play through whatever accumulated damage I'm sure his body has taken.

I'd be surprised if this ever becomes a legitimate problem for anyone.

 

[Bench]

Weber (and his agent) could feel the loophole closing rapidly but was still an RFA. He was really smart to leverage that into a bonkers offer sheet from Philly before the new rules hit.

But yeah, everyone will just LTIR. Like Hossa. If a skin allergy counts (and I'm actually sympathetic to the guy if it's even remotely true), you have to think almost anything will work.

 

[Fil Larkmanthanasiou]

I would retire if I were him. This organization is a shitshow. The recapture penalty would actually be beneficial to the team as it would tie Holland's hands from being able to do anything with available cap space.

 

[Henkka]

Shea Weber just went for another knee surgery, which will keep him out for next 6 months. Both knees now operated during same calendar year.

There's his out clause for LTIR. "Chronic knee problems." Zetterberg will have "chronic back problems", like Hossa had "chronic skin allergy".

 

[avssuc]

Worst case scenario, you could always trade the contract (or Franzen's) to a team trying to hit the floor. I believe Franzen holds a 4mil cap hit, but only pays 1mil. Something like, Wings trade Franzen to Arizona for some player who's caphit is 1.5 mil for a year. I think Philly did this with Pronger.

That's the same BS, pass the buck, thinking that made the Wings trade a top 4 NHL ready defenseman in the 2016 draft. It minimizes rebuild efficiency.

If folks want to have a long dwell in the cellar, that's cool, but I enjoy watching the playoffs.

 

[kliq]

That's the same BS, pass the buck, thinking that made the Wings trade a top 4 NHL ready defenseman in the 2016 draft. It minimizes rebuild efficiency.

If folks want to have a long dwell in the cellar, that's cool, but I enjoy watching the playoffs.

It's not that simple, it all depends on what is involved in the trade. If we moved Franzen's contract to a team that needs to hit the floor, its win-win (if we need the cap).
The other team gets a 4mil cap hit, but only pays 1mil, and they can ship that amount back to us with someone else. We clear cap space. Why are you thinking that we would have to give up something significant if anything to do so?

As far as Chychrun goes, Wings passed on him (just as many others did) presumably because of concerns of his injury history. Since joining the NHL, he hasn't exactly changed people's minds. I'd rather have Hronek AND Chowolski over Chychrun.

I'm for doing whatever it takes to make this team a contender again (not just get into the playoffs), and if a trade like that can help us, I'm for it. If it truly jeopardizes our future, I don't do it. Depends what the offer is, to say you should or should not do anything before fully understanding what it is, is silly.

 

[ShelbyZ]

Bad news is, that pretty much maxes the LTIR until 2020-2021 when you consider the 10% summer overage. Probably won't make much difference, but it could. Honestly, I thought this would have been a bigger problem. Happy that, so far, I was wrong.

The positive there is that it might create more incentive to promote young guys. Guys on two-way deals that didn't play in the NHL the season prior don't count against the cap during the offseason, and guys on two-way deals that did play in the NHL the season before only count for how much time they spent on the NHL roster (IE Svechnikov counts somewhere around $130k right now, Hicketts around $37k). So while they can't spend to the complete 10% overage, promoting 2/3 guys on 2-way ELC's at the beginning of the season would still help them max their relief from Franzen and Zetterberg both being on LTIR.

 

[ShelbyZ]

To me the Datsyuk contract trade was almost two different trades:

1. You had Datsyuks contract (enough cap to ensure Arizona is over the floor, while costing them exactly $0 in real money) for Vitale's contract (a contract that, despite being clear of cap contraints due to LTIR, would still have some real dollar cost outside of what insurance did/didn't cover)

-16OA for 20OA and 53OA. This literally looks like any typical trade up/down scenario at the draft to either move up or move down and get an extra pick.

 

[ShelbyZ]

I doubt the league would contest any type of LTIR for Zetterberg to try and get the Red Wings to face the re-capture penalty.

To me, the "re-capture" penalty was more of a show boat to say, "Don't get cute trying to skirt this next CBA, because we can certainly make you pay for that stuff on the next one..."

I mean just look at what the league let teams get away with:

-Hossa's equipment allergy that all the sudden became too unbearable when he got to the $1M years on his contract that he likely never meant to play anyway.
-Let the Leafs basically banish Joffrey Lupul to LTIR, even after he takes to Twitter claiming he isn't even hurt.
-Give the Devils a barely noticeable slap on the wrist for Kovalchuks retirement

I'm sure Gary Bettman is well aware that hamstringing the Red Wings ability to ice a competitive roster is a net loss for league revenue, especially with another possible lockout looming.

I'm sure the Red Wings have a whole team of doctors ready to recommend that Zetterbergs back no longer be put through the rigors of professional hockey, despite what he's accomplished since the surgery.

It's potentially a bonus for Zetterberg, since an unofficial retirement through LTIR means he now gets to collect the extra $1-5.35M tacked onto his contract from the years that were meant to simply drive down his AAV during his prime.

 

[Frk It]

I doubt the league would contest any type of LTIR for Zetterberg to try and get the Red Wings to face the re-capture penalty.

To me, the "re-capture" penalty was more of a show boat to say, "Don't get cute trying to skirt this next CBA, because we can certainly make you pay for that stuff on the next one..."

I mean just look at what the league let teams get away with:

-Hossa's equipment allergy that all the sudden became too unbearable when he got to the $1M years on his contract that he likely never meant to play anyway.
-Let the Leafs basically banish Joffrey Lupul to LTIR, even after he takes to Twitter claiming he isn't even hurt.
-Give the Devils a barely noticeable slap on the wrist for Kovalchuks retirement

I'm sure Gary Bettman is well aware that hamstringing the Red Wings ability to ice a competitive roster is a net loss for league revenue, especially with another possible lockout looming.

I'm sure the Red Wings have a whole team of doctors ready to recommend that Zetterbergs back no longer be put through the rigors of professional hockey, despite what he's accomplished since the surgery.

It's potentially a bonus for Zetterberg, since an unofficial retirement through LTIR means he now gets to collect the extra $1-5.35M tacked onto his contract from the years that were meant to simply drive down his AAV during his prime.

-His actual salary doesn’t change if he goes on LTIR, only the caphit is affected.

-His back is bad enough to justify LTIR... probably has been for awhile.

-The league definitely shouldn’t question it seeing as how they employed a guy still under contract that LTIRetired.

 

[ShelbyZ]

-His actual salary doesn’t change if he goes on LTIR, only the caphit is affected.

Correct.

What I meant was that when the contract was signed, it's highly likely that Zetterberg never meant to play those $1M years, or at least was comfortable knowing he could walk away from them if he didn't want to play anymore. The intention of those being on the contract was to cut down his AAV. At the time it was signed and under the previous CBA, Zetterberg could've straight up retired before the deal was up with no ill effects to the Red Wings but obviously not get paid the extra $2M. Now he can still "retire", but also collect that money that he maybe never even planned to earn in the first place.

 

[JoesuffP]

Could be this is just a bit of posturing to the NHL? Zetterberg reluctantly comes back, plays until the deadline, hits 1000 points, goes on LTIR for the remainder of his contract. Retiring next years makes way more sense financially and he hasn’t had an injury in 3 years

 

[avssuc]

It's not that simple
Why are you thinking that we would have to give up something significant if anything to do so?

As far as Chychrun goes, Wings passed on him (just as many others did) presumably because of concerns of his injury history. Since joining the NHL, he hasn't exactly changed people's minds. I'd rather have Hronek AND Chowolski over Chychrun.

to say you should or should not do anything before fully understanding what it is, is silly.

Because of the lack of real world deals that support your claims. Also, the number of teams that are against the cap ceiling is larger than those beneath the floor. It's almost a certainty that it should continue this way. Why a 'floor team' wouldn't leverage their position is beyond me.

The Wings gave up futures (whether numbers or value) to move Datsyuks dead weight, so I'd prefer they be on the other side of that equation, especially considering how far they've fallen since.

 

[obey86]

Because of the lack of real world deals that support your claims. Also, the number of teams that are against the cap ceiling is larger than those beneath the floor. It's almost a certainty that it should continue this way. Why a 'floor team' wouldn't leverage their position is beyond me.

The Wings gave up futures (whether numbers or value) to move Datsyuks dead weight, so I'd prefer they be on the other side of that equation, especially considering how far they've fallen since.

The Wings didn't give up anything to move Datsyuk.

 

[kliq]

The Wings didn't give up anything to move Datsyuk.

Agreed, I'd argue we actually gained.

 

[kliq]

Because of the lack of real world deals that support your claims. Also, the number of teams that are against the cap ceiling is larger than those beneath the floor. It's almost a certainty that it should continue this way. Why a 'floor team' wouldn't leverage their position is beyond me.

The Wings gave up futures (whether numbers or value) to move Datsyuks dead weight, so I'd prefer they be on the other side of that equation, especially considering how far they've fallen since.

There are not a ton of examples because it's rare that a player with a large cap hit goes down with a career ending injury AND it's rare that a team would even need to trade an injured player because I dont think a team has ever filled up LTIR before. Pronger is the best example of a trade purely based on money that I can think of off the top of my head. I wont bring up Datsyuk again, because obviously you are a Chychrun fan and didnt like that trade.

Floor teams may attempt to leverage, but at the end of the day this is a business, and if a floor team has to choose between saving money and just saying no, I'm pretty sure they will do what is best for their franchise. The floor team looses nothing doing this.

Either way, I just brought this up as a worst case scenario in case we have both Z and Franzen on LTIR AND we need to clear cap space because of another injury. I'm not saying its likely or that it's going to happen.

 

[FMichael]

Unless Z hired Jack Johnson's parents to manage his money, he isn't gonna stick around for another 70-80 point season for a one million dollar salary.

It's gotta be rough having a 'bad back', and waking up sore/stiff every morning...Even worse is being on this current roster, and knowing we won't make the playoffs anytime soon.

 

[turkleton85]

I'm anxious to see what decision zetterberg makes. The argument that he played the full last 3 seasons at a pretty high level given his age is strong, but anyone with back problems knows that symptoms can appear pretty quickly. It only takes a bad timed jump in his workouts, playing with his children or lifting something in a false way to reaggravate his back or even wake up a new symptom. These might be things that often only take a few days of rest. But each time you realize that you only have one back and you have to be careful with it.

 

[Reddwit]

Interesting comments on the captaincy. On the one hand, Abdelkader becoming captain is almost embarrassing when he’s effectively following up 30+ years of Hall of Fame players as captains. Kronwall as well. On the other hand, with the state of the team, do we let it go as simply a sign of the times? No need to mar the legacy of a potential franchise stalwart like Larkin with these down years?

For the record, that’s not to say Abby or Kronwall aren’t good leaders.