Zadina

[NickH8]

After watching this season's highlights, I'm reminded of how weird a year it was for Zadina.

He's got to produce more, but this team did a poor job of getting him the puck. He spent basically the entire year trying to get the puck back by himself and set his linemates up, which is not really ideal usage for an elite goalscoring winger prospect. It's nice that he can do it, but if this team can improve their possession game, he can get back to his roots and hopefully be more productive.

Maybe this is Yzerman's thought process behind pursuing Hyman. Both Larkin and Zadina need a guy like that, and both didn't have chemistry together. Maybe he wants Bertuzzi/Larkin to be combo #1 and Hyman/Zadina to be combo #2

 

[NickH8]

I don't care about comparing Zadina to Hughes or some lofty want for him to be a 40 goal scorer. What I see is a solid two way player with a lot of untapped offensive potential. I'm happy to have him.

 

[Henkka]

Funny how guys like Connor Brown and Zach Hyman have been maybe the best workhorses and balansive players for Leafs in latest years, and they let them walk away. It's just insane to see, how good Connor Brown has been for Sens.

That team goes nowhere when they keep the skill primadonnas only.

They must like of those 1st round exits.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Maybe this is Yzerman's thought process behind pursuing Hyman. Both Larkin and Zadina need a guy like that, and both didn't have chemistry together. Maybe he wants Bertuzzi/Larkin to be combo #1 and Hyman/Zadina to be combo #2

I think getting Zadina away from Larkin would be a benefit. He’s much better with the puck on his stick intermittently than he is riding as a passenger the entire time. Larkin is far too north south, high tempo, and puck lugging to use Zadina appropriately

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Maybe this is Yzerman's thought process behind pursuing Hyman. Both Larkin and Zadina need a guy like that, and both didn't have chemistry together. Maybe he wants Bertuzzi/Larkin to be combo #1 and Hyman/Zadina to be combo #2

Or...maybe we sign Hyman for 2 or 3 years, then trade Bertuzzi? I think that's a wash in terms of talent. Hyman is older but whatever. By the time we're competitive we probably won't have Bertuzzi on the team either.

If we can turn him into another late 1st this year I'm OK with trading Bertuzzi and signing Hyman short term.

 

[golffuul]

Funny how guys like Connor Brown and Zach Hyman have been maybe the best workhorses and balansive players for Leafs in latest years, and they let them walk away. It's just insane to see, how good Connor Brown has been for Sens.

That team goes nowhere when they keep the skill primadonnas only.

They must like of those 1st round exits.

They can...and they will

 

[ricky0034]

Or...maybe we sign Hyman for 2 or 3 years, then trade Bertuzzi? I think that's a wash in terms of talent. Hyman is older but whatever. By the time we're competitive we probably won't have Bertuzzi on the team either.

If we can turn him into another late 1st this year I'm OK with trading Bertuzzi and signing Hyman short term.

that would make sense yeah

this doesn't really sound promising for Hyman ending up at anything reasonable though:

 

[Hen Kolland]

Or...maybe we sign Hyman for 2 or 3 years, then trade Bertuzzi? I think that's a wash in terms of talent. Hyman is older but whatever. By the time we're competitive we probably won't have Bertuzzi on the team either.

If we can turn him into another late 1st this year I'm OK with trading Bertuzzi and signing Hyman short term.

I actually have had this discussion with a coworker. I would not want the Wings to go after Hyman if they were planning on hanging on to Bertuzzi. To me they are the same role player, and I don't want two of them when I want the flexibility to promote and challenge the young kids.

 

[Bench]

that would make sense yeah

this doesn't really sound promising for Hyman ending up at anything reasonable though:

The fact anyone is even discussing an 8 year commitment to a guy like Hyman, good gravy.

 

[Mister Ed]

Voracek is 6'2.

Voracek @ 19: 9-29-38
Voracek @ 20: 16-34-50
Voracek @ 21: 14-32-46

Zadina @ 19: 1-2-3
Zadina @ 20: 8-7-15
Zadina @ 21 6-13-19

Granted, Zadina played far fewer games.
But Voracek has been providing decent 2nd line production since he was 19.

The bolded might be (probably is) the best explanation as to why Zadina hasn't produced as much as Voracek - YET.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The fact anyone is even discussing an 8 year commitment to a guy like Hyman, good gravy.

Yup, proof they haven't learned their lesson after 2016 or after two lockouts. COVID literally saved us from having a third lockout in 16 years. Because we were cruising towards that. Now, isn't it extended out till '26?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

that would make sense yeah

this doesn't really sound promising for Hyman ending up at anything reasonable though:

That just screams mistake.

Hyman at 3 years? I can see him being productive until 32. 4 years? That's probably when we see a pretty noticeable decline.
Hyman at years 5-8? That's when a guy like him enters into the Frans Nielsen territory of diminishing returns.

Watch this guy get signed by Ken Holland for something ridiculous.

 

[Henkka]

That post is just Leafs marketing. Whole of the "8th year thing". No one is gonna buy Hyman because of that extra year possibility. Nobody is gonna sign him for 8 years.

Something like 4-5 years is realism with a long-term deal. Everybody knows that.

 

[Bench]

That post is just Leafs marketing. Whole of the "8th year thing". No one is gonna buy Hyman because of that extra year possibility. Nobody is gonna sign him for 8 years.

Something like 4-5 years is realism with a long-term deal. Everybody knows that.

Oh, we've seen this kind of thing before.

Detroit Red Wings sign Justin Abdelkader to 7-year contract extension

Home Sweet Home: Leafs sign Toronto native David Clarkson to seven-year deal

Milan Lucic signs 7-year deal with Edmonton Oilers - Sportsnet.ca

That's just off the top of my head. GMs can't help themselves with these gritty wingers that bring playoff intangibles.

 

[Winger98]

Yup, proof they haven't learned their lesson after 2016 or after two lockouts. COVID literally saved us from having a third lockout in 16 years. Because we were cruising towards that. Now, isn't it extended out till '26?

If there was a third lockout the NHL deserves to die from fan apathy. They have cost certainty, what more is needed? It shouldn't be the league's job to regulate teams being stupid out of the game.

 

[Winger98]

Oh, we've seen this kind of thing before.

Detroit Red Wings sign Justin Abdelkader to 7-year contract extension

Home Sweet Home: Leafs sign Toronto native David Clarkson to seven-year deal

Milan Lucic signs 7-year deal with Edmonton Oilers - Sportsnet.ca

That's just off the top of my head. GMs can't help themselves with these gritty wingers that bring playoff intangibles.

Hey, that's just unfair. Everyone knew neither the Wings nor the Oil would see a lot of playoff games during either of those deals.

 

[Bench]

Hey, that's just unfair. Everyone knew neither the Wings nor the Oil would see a lot of playoff games during either of those deals.

 

[golffuul]

If there was a third lockout the NHL deserves to die from fan apathy. They have cost certainty, what more is needed? It shouldn't be the league's job to regulate teams being stupid out of the game.

Especially since we'd no longer have Toronto to make fun of anymore, if that happened.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

If there was a third lockout the NHL deserves to die from fan apathy. They have cost certainty, what more is needed? It shouldn't be the league's job to regulate teams being stupid out of the game.

It was sure looking likely in 2019. Then, the pandemic and its fallout saved the league and players from themselves.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It was sure looking likely in 2019. Then, the pandemic and its fallout saved the league and players from themselves.

The fact that there was yet another lockout being considered just shows how poor the leadership of the NHL is.

How much more profitable would the league have been if they hadn't moved franchises to markets like Arizona and Carolina? And expanding to not one, but TWO Florida cities. (Love the bolts, feel bad for the Panthers.) Not to mention the Atlanta debacle.

 

[MBH]

Funny how guys like Connor Brown and Zach Hyman have been maybe the best workhorses and balansive players for Leafs in latest years, and they let them walk away. It's just insane to see, how good Connor Brown has been for Sens.

That team goes nowhere when they keep the skill primadonnas only.

They must like of those 1st round exits.

Oh. I guess I missed all the times Hyman and Brown led their teams beyond the first round.
You want to keep good, hard-working role players?
2 options
1) Keep them in roles where they can't price themselves off the team.
2) Or, overpay.

Darren Helm and Justin Abdelkader would have been valued Red Wings if they'd been kept on the third and fourth lines where they belonged and never made more than the $1.8M Glendening makes today.

 

[Gniwder]

After watching this season's highlights, I'm reminded of how weird a year it was for Zadina.

He's got to produce more, but this team did a poor job of getting him the puck. He spent basically the entire year trying to get the puck back by himself and set his linemates up, which is not really ideal usage for an elite goalscoring winger prospect. It's nice that he can do it, but if this team can improve their possession game, he can get back to his roots and hopefully be more productive.

I think we can stop using that word now. 6.2 SH% is lower than Helm's career average.

He flat out missed a bunch of shots, he did not shoot well last season. Blash/Disco's lack of commitment to the offensive zone certainly makes it more difficult for a player like Zadina, but he has to improve. If there's one person I think benefits the most from the assistant coach change, it's Zadina. At the same time, I think he loses his PP1 spot to Vrana.

 

[golffuul]

The fact that there was yet another lockout being considered just shows how poor the leadership of the NHL is.

How much more profitable would the league have been if they hadn't moved franchises to markets like Arizona and Carolina? And expanding to not one, but TWO Florida cities. (Love the bolts, feel bad for the Panthers.) Not to mention the Atlanta debacle.

One thing I was talking about with someone else is that the league needs teams that don’t make money, so that the bigger teams can use them as a shelter with the revenue sharing situation they have between the owners. Allows them to keep the players at a higher escrow rate and keeps the revenue more disproportionately favored to the owners, because HRR 50/50 is after all the teams are “made whole”. I don’t think the League cares about being more profitable at the expense of the owners being able to limit their liabilities.

 

[Redrogue71]

I think zadina will be just fine. Showing he is will to play at all ends. Will he be elite most likely not. Definitely not a franchise savior. I can see him being 40 to 50 point player or maybe more. All depends on his growth, coaching, system and who he plays with. I'd be happy with 20 to 30 goals from him. Only time will tell and having normal seasons.

 

[Gniwder]

Yeah, you don't compare #6 year to year.
You compare #6 to the #7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 etc, in his own draft year.

Given the DIRE need for defensemen in this organization, and given that draft had more great defenseman than any in recent memory, and given the value of defense and how hard it is to acquire high level D anywhere but the draft.... to me, Zadina will always be compared to Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard and Dobson.

There are other defensemen from that draft who might be impressive, like Smith and K'Andre Miller and Sandin and Romanov. But that top 4 group is the one I regret passing over.

Agree. Holland had picked a butt load of D the previous 2 seasons, so he probably thought he was set at D. Fact of the matter is, you can trade a mediocre defenseman for a top end forward (Hall/Larsson). So it makes more sense to pick a solid D prospect than a winger with questionable skating.

Seems like I always want to pick D at the top, probably because the team hasn't drafted a top pair D since Kronwall, and I thought Cholo was gonna bust after his rookie season.