Zadina

[13to40]

I know we drafted this kid to score goals, but I was pretty impressed with the improvements he made to his overall game this season. He became a 200ft player that showed compete at all levels. Really like his vision for always trying to get into the open space, and his zone entry was spectacular at times. I think the goals will come for him when some of the talent we drafted makes their way to Detroit, but hopefully he gets more time with Vrana again next year. I would also love to see him with Raymond in the future, I think they would be great together.

I think this season will be a breakout season for both Zadina and Rasmussen.

Zadina in particular last season did look great at times, but after a full off season of the right preparation; I finally think this team gets the guy they had hoped he would be when he was drafted.

 

[deca guard]

razz has to get more agile / coordinated in his legs and arms in order to become a better shooter . if im him im training with a yoga teacher . but already seeing him skating well for size and being an intense commited competitor with size and ruggedness has me seeing him as a monster power winger for a talented centerman with a zadina or raymond on the other wing . or a 3 line shutdown center you sick on opponants 1C .

concerning Z2 i was completely impressed with his hockey iq and determination last season , all 200' . but you want to talk about o zone / pp play poison this guy is it . get him on ice for every o zone face off and he will generate chances galore because of quick hockey mind and silky mitts . and hopefully he is building his hand / arm / shoulder strength up so can bring a harder shot , and if he does CHA CHING !

 

[golffuul]

I think a year without having contracted Covid, a more sensible schedule, and hopefully a little more talent in the lineup will free up Zadina to make bigger strides in his offensive game. You could tell that he was playing a defense-first game, last year, to help the team be more competitive. I expect his progress to be in the Couturier range, but maybe not as slow in putting up offensive numbers. Could see a 20+ goal year from Zadina, depending on how our offseason goes.

 

[MBH]

Almost all goalscorers in the NHL need a playmaker as their partner save for the very best such as Pavel Bure, Auston Matthews and Alex Ovechkin who are players that come along very seldom.

THis is not true.
Even B-grade goal scorers like Mantha, Athanasiou and Vrana show it.
In the NHL, goal scorers score goals. They don't need a "playmaker" to have passable goal-scoring stats.

Here are the Red Wings forwards who played 20 or more minutes who scored more goals/60 than Zadina.
Vrana
Bertuzzi
Fabbri
Erne
Mantha
Ryan
Svechnikov
Gagner
Filppula
Larkin
Namestnikov
Glendening

Here are the guys who played 20 or more games who scored fewer G/60.
Rasmussen
Helm
Nielsen
Brome.

A real goal scorer doesn't need a playmaker to be in the top 4-5 of that list.
Instead, Zadina is 13th out of 17.
Behind the likes of career fourth liners and defensive-forwards.

Zadina just isn't the shooter we all thought we saw in his Draft Year WJC.
That's not to say he can't be an effective top 6 forward, but I don't think this kid ever really justifies a top 6 pick at this point.

He's going to be 22 in November. While that's still young, a lot of NHL top 10 pick forwards are murdering the NHL this age.

Pastrnak, the guy to whom he was often compared, put up 34 goals in his 20/21 season.

This kid was given every chance to breakthrough last year. He spent more than half the year as the shooting option on the PP. And while our powerplay didn't ever seem capable of that extra pass that can make a shot virtually unstoppable, goalies looked like they were picking cherries against Zadina.
His slapper just isn't that powerful and his release doesn't seem that deceptiive.

Sure, he'd score more goals out there with Hedman, Kucherov and Point. Who wouldn't?
But he was behind 12 Red Wings forwards.

 

[19 for president]

THis is not true.
Even B-grade goal scorers like Mantha, Athanasiou and Vrana show it.
In the NHL, goal scorers score goals. They don't need a "playmaker" to have passable goal-scoring stats.

Here are the Red Wings forwards who played 20 or more minutes who scored more goals/60 than Zadina.
Vrana
Bertuzzi
Fabbri
Erne
Mantha
Ryan
Svechnikov
Gagner
Filppula
Larkin
Namestnikov
Glendening

Here are the guys who played 20 or more games who scored fewer G/60.
Rasmussen
Helm
Nielsen
Brome.

A real goal scorer doesn't need a playmaker to be in the top 4-5 of that list.
Instead, Zadina is 13th out of 17.
Behind the likes of career fourth liners and defensive-forwards.

Zadina just isn't the shooter we all thought we saw in his Draft Year WJC.
That's not to say he can't be an effective top 6 forward, but I don't think this kid ever really justifies a top 6 pick at this point.

He's going to be 22 in November. While that's still young, a lot of NHL top 10 pick forwards are murdering the NHL this age.

Pastrnak, the guy to whom he was often compared, put up 34 goals in his 20/21 season.

This kid was given every chance to breakthrough last year. He spent more than half the year as the shooting option on the PP. And while our powerplay didn't ever seem capable of that extra pass that can make a shot virtually unstoppable, goalies looked like they were picking cherries against Zadina.
His slapper just isn't that powerful and his release doesn't seem that deceptiive.

Sure, he'd score more goals out there with Hedman, Kucherov and Point. Who wouldn't?
But he was behind 12 Red Wings forwards.

I agree to some extent. I don't really see a consistent 40 goal guy in Zadina, but I do see someone who is much better passer and two way player than I expected when he joined the NHL. As for the Pasta argument, not all development is exactly the same. I mean Zetterberg didn't enter the NHL until he was Zadina's age, and it took him 2 more seasons before he started putting up 30+ goal seasons. Pasta and Z for that matter never have played on a team as bad as the Wings the last two years. Also having Covid last year clearly knocked down his conditioning quite badly. It took him months to get his conditioning and timing back. This will be a big year for him development wise, and I'm not willing to write him off year as being a first line player.

 

[TCNorthstars]

He's going to be 22 in November. While that's still young, a lot of NHL top 10 pick forwards are murdering the NHL this age.

Define murdering the NHL.

 

[RedWingzz]

THis is not true.
Even B-grade goal scorers like Mantha, Athanasiou and Vrana show it.
In the NHL, goal scorers score goals. They don't need a "playmaker" to have passable goal-scoring stats.

Here are the Red Wings forwards who played 20 or more minutes who scored more goals/60 than Zadina.
Vrana
Bertuzzi
Fabbri
Erne
Mantha
Ryan
Svechnikov
Gagner
Filppula
Larkin
Namestnikov
Glendening

Here are the guys who played 20 or more games who scored fewer G/60.
Rasmussen
Helm
Nielsen
Brome.

A real goal scorer doesn't need a playmaker to be in the top 4-5 of that list.
Instead, Zadina is 13th out of 17.
Behind the likes of career fourth liners and defensive-forwards.

Zadina just isn't the shooter we all thought we saw in his Draft Year WJC.
That's not to say he can't be an effective top 6 forward, but I don't think this kid ever really justifies a top 6 pick at this point.

He's going to be 22 in November. While that's still young, a lot of NHL top 10 pick forwards are murdering the NHL this age.

Pastrnak, the guy to whom he was often compared, put up 34 goals in his 20/21 season.

This kid was given every chance to breakthrough last year. He spent more than half the year as the shooting option on the PP. And while our powerplay didn't ever seem capable of that extra pass that can make a shot virtually unstoppable, goalies looked like they were picking cherries against Zadina.
His slapper just isn't that powerful and his release doesn't seem that deceptiive.

Sure, he'd score more goals out there with Hedman, Kucherov and Point. Who wouldn't?
But he was behind 12 Red Wings forwards.

I think maybe your memory may be a bit distorted in terms of the 6th overall pick. It's common for people to think that all top 10 picks have to become legitimate NHL superstars, and if they don't, they underachieved. If you look at 6th overall picks from the last 10 years, Zadina is progressing well, and looks like he will justify being 6th overall. Obviously, he needs to produce more offensively, but comparatively to other 6th overall picks, he's doing alright.

6th overall picks

2020: J. Drysdale. Promising young D with tons of potential, likely will have a better career than Zadina, but he still has lots to prove.

2019: M. Seider. See above about Drysdale.

2018: F. Zadina

2017: C. Glass. Still has lots of potential, but Vegas is obviously wanting more out of Glass. I'd rather have Zadina.

2016: M. Tkachuk. Solid pick, nice all-around game. No argument for Zadina here.

2015: N. Hanifin. Contributing top 4 defenceman, but definitely not a star by any means.

2014: J. Virtanen. I don't like using the "bust" word for a player with 317 NHL games played, but underwhelming pick for sure.

2013: S. Monahan. Has had a couple really nice years, and a couple "meh" years. As of now, no argument for Zadina, but in a couple years Zadina's value could be higher.

2012: H. Lindholm. see above about Hanifin. He's solid, but not a superstar by any means.

2011: M. Zinanejad. Has taken his game to another level over the last 4 years, but 3 years into his career, there were many questions.

2010: B. Connolly. Like Virtanen, hard to call a player with over 500 NHL games a "bust", but we'll label him as an underachieving pick, like Virtanen. I give Connolly credit though for hanging in there, and proving he's at least a useful NHL player.

2009: OEL. Solid career, useful top pair D, definitely good value at 6th.

2008: N. Filatov. No problem labelling him a bust here. Selfish, one-dimensional player. Tons of skill, no heart, no desire to play D, he was quoted as saying "Filly don't do rebounds" what a clown comment lol.

2007. S. Gagner. Had some good NHL years, and has had a nice career for himself, but not a star at all.

2006: D, Brassard. See above for Gagner.

2005: G. Brule. 299 games played, but I think you can label this one as a bust.

2004: A. Montoya. Yeah, bust here as well.

I'm gonna stop here, but basically my point is that we as fans always think if a player is drafted 5th or 6th or 7th, we are always expecting a star player, but the reality is, 6th overall is far from a guarantee to be a star. Obviously some guys on my list here can be considered as "star" players, but many of them are just serviceable NHL players, with a couple busts mixed in. I am also left wanting more from Zadina, but let's give it time. This is a big year for him, and I fully expect him to hit the 20 goal mark this year. His shooting percentage will not be as low as it was this year.

 

[MBH]

Define murdering the NHL.

Scoring at all-star rates vs scoring at 4th liner rates.

 

[Bench]

Define murdering the NHL.

Mike Danton seems like a good place to start.

 

[deca guard]

 

[Martinez]

Eye test doesn’t match his production, obvious break out candidate

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Mike Danton seems like a good place to start.

Holy shit. Bench going hard in the f***in paint.

 

[Gniwder]

THis is not true.
Even B-grade goal scorers like Mantha, Athanasiou and Vrana show it.
In the NHL, goal scorers score goals. They don't need a "playmaker" to have passable goal-scoring stats.

Here are the Red Wings forwards who played 20 or more minutes who scored more goals/60 than Zadina.
Vrana
Bertuzzi
Fabbri
Erne
Mantha
Ryan
Svechnikov
Gagner
Filppula
Larkin
Namestnikov
Glendening

Here are the guys who played 20 or more games who scored fewer G/60.
Rasmussen
Helm
Nielsen
Brome.

A real goal scorer doesn't need a playmaker to be in the top 4-5 of that list.
Instead, Zadina is 13th out of 17.
Behind the likes of career fourth liners and defensive-forwards.

Zadina just isn't the shooter we all thought we saw in his Draft Year WJC.
That's not to say he can't be an effective top 6 forward, but I don't think this kid ever really justifies a top 6 pick at this point.

He's going to be 22 in November. While that's still young, a lot of NHL top 10 pick forwards are murdering the NHL this age.

Pastrnak, the guy to whom he was often compared, put up 34 goals in his 20/21 season.

This kid was given every chance to breakthrough last year. He spent more than half the year as the shooting option on the PP. And while our powerplay didn't ever seem capable of that extra pass that can make a shot virtually unstoppable, goalies looked like they were picking cherries against Zadina.
His slapper just isn't that powerful and his release doesn't seem that deceptiive.

Sure, he'd score more goals out there with Hedman, Kucherov and Point. Who wouldn't?
But he was behind 12 Red Wings forwards.

6.2 SH% pretty much explains the issue. Hopefully Tanguay addresses that.

Certainly not impresses so far, if he's gonna put up Tom Wilson numbers (7.1% when 21) he better beat some ass, lol. (Wilson shot 15.7% last season, if he can improve then so can Zadina)

 

[Bench]

Holy shit. Bench going hard in the f***in paint.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

"Cranjis McBasketball" -- Impractical Jokers

 

[GettingYourMoms]

THis is not true.
Even B-grade goal scorers like Mantha, Athanasiou and Vrana show it.
In the NHL, goal scorers score goals. They don't need a "playmaker" to have passable goal-scoring stats.

Here are the Red Wings forwards who played 20 or more minutes who scored more goals/60 than Zadina.
Vrana
Bertuzzi
Fabbri
Erne
Mantha
Ryan
Svechnikov
Gagner
Filppula
Larkin
Namestnikov
Glendening

Here are the guys who played 20 or more games who scored fewer G/60.
Rasmussen
Helm
Nielsen
Brome.

A real goal scorer doesn't need a playmaker to be in the top 4-5 of that list.
Instead, Zadina is 13th out of 17.
Behind the likes of career fourth liners and defensive-forwards.

Zadina just isn't the shooter we all thought we saw in his Draft Year WJC.
That's not to say he can't be an effective top 6 forward, but I don't think this kid ever really justifies a top 6 pick at this point.

He's going to be 22 in November. While that's still young, a lot of NHL top 10 pick forwards are murdering the NHL this age.

Pastrnak, the guy to whom he was often compared, put up 34 goals in his 20/21 season.

This kid was given every chance to breakthrough last year. He spent more than half the year as the shooting option on the PP. And while our powerplay didn't ever seem capable of that extra pass that can make a shot virtually unstoppable, goalies looked like they were picking cherries against Zadina.
His slapper just isn't that powerful and his release doesn't seem that deceptiive.

Sure, he'd score more goals out there with Hedman, Kucherov and Point. Who wouldn't?
But he was behind 12 Red Wings forwards.

Pasta was playing with Krejci who was and still is much better center than Larkin.

 

[Gniwder]

I think maybe your memory may be a bit distorted in terms of the 6th overall pick. It's common for people to think that all top 10 picks have to become legitimate NHL superstars, and if they don't, they underachieved. If you look at 6th overall picks from the last 10 years, Zadina is progressing well, and looks like he will justify being 6th overall. Obviously, he needs to produce more offensively, but comparatively to other 6th overall picks, he's doing alright.

6th overall picks

2020: J. Drysdale. Promising young D with tons of potential, likely will have a better career than Zadina, but he still has lots to prove.

2019: M. Seider. See above about Drysdale.

2018: F. Zadina

2017: C. Glass. Still has lots of potential, but Vegas is obviously wanting more out of Glass. I'd rather have Zadina.

2016: M. Tkachuk. Solid pick, nice all-around game. No argument for Zadina here.

2015: N. Hanifin. Contributing top 4 defenceman, but definitely not a star by any means.

2014: J. Virtanen. I don't like using the "bust" word for a player with 317 NHL games played, but underwhelming pick for sure.

2013: S. Monahan. Has had a couple really nice years, and a couple "meh" years. As of now, no argument for Zadina, but in a couple years Zadina's value could be higher.

2012: H. Lindholm. see above about Hanifin. He's solid, but not a superstar by any means.

2011: M. Zinanejad. Has taken his game to another level over the last 4 years, but 3 years into his career, there were many questions.

2010: B. Connolly. Like Virtanen, hard to call a player with over 500 NHL games a "bust", but we'll label him as an underachieving pick, like Virtanen. I give Connolly credit though for hanging in there, and proving he's at least a useful NHL player.

2009: OEL. Solid career, useful top pair D, definitely good value at 6th.

2008: N. Filatov. No problem labelling him a bust here. Selfish, one-dimensional player. Tons of skill, no heart, no desire to play D, he was quoted as saying "Filly don't do rebounds" what a clown comment lol.

2007. S. Gagner. Had some good NHL years, and has had a nice career for himself, but not a star at all.

2006: D, Brassard. See above for Gagner.

2005: G. Brule. 299 games played, but I think you can label this one as a bust.

2004: A. Montoya. Yeah, bust here as well.

I'm gonna stop here, but basically my point is that we as fans always think if a player is drafted 5th or 6th or 7th, we are always expecting a star player, but the reality is, 6th overall is far from a guarantee to be a star. Obviously some guys on my list here can be considered as "star" players, but many of them are just serviceable NHL players, with a couple busts mixed in. I am also left wanting more from Zadina, but let's give it time. This is a big year for him, and I fully expect him to hit the 20 goal mark this year. His shooting percentage will not be as low as it was this year.

Such a weird argument to pick a particular draft spot at #6 when everyone picked afterwards was available.

There are other spots in the draft order where a lot of the teams failed (I think it's our other draft spot #22). But anyone that was picked #7 was obviously available at #6, and #7 actually looks better than #6.

 

[Oddbob]

So far he has just over one full season of stats.

Games: 86
Goals: 15
Assists: 22
Points: 37

That really is not that bad at all. Look at Hischier, Lafreniere, Kaakko and others and he isn't doing that bad at all. He also improved in the non scoring parts of the game by a lot this past season. He was showing a very good ability to read plays in the d-zone and because of that, was making lots of nice plays that don't show up on the score sheet. While I would like that he was better at putting himself in open scoring spots closer to the net and better one-timer usage, the guy is still young and has 2 and a bit seasons spread over 3 years in the NHL, so how about relax a little. Now if he were to play all next season and only put up 30 pts or something, than I would start to worry a little more. Would also help greatly if he got to play with offensive talent, which we just don't have right now.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Pastrnak, the guy to whom he was often compared, put up 34 goals in his 20/21 season.

Pastrnak, one of the biggest home-run draft picks of the last two decades?

Expectations aren't low.

Yes, it looks a bit unlikely that Zadina is the huge steal of a pick we hoped. He might not be a superstar. But he's still just played about one season worth of games, on a terrible team that generates very little offense.

Looking at his actual play this season, both Detroit and for the Czech at WHC, he's showing what he's growing into - a hard-working two-way winger with a variety of tools. Next step for him is improving every tool a little bit to get truly effective.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

After watching this season's highlights, I'm reminded of how weird a year it was for Zadina.

He's got to produce more, but this team did a poor job of getting him the puck. He spent basically the entire year trying to get the puck back by himself and set his linemates up, which is not really ideal usage for an elite goalscoring winger prospect. It's nice that he can do it, but if this team can improve their possession game, he can get back to his roots and hopefully be more productive.

 

[deca guard]

So far he has just over one full season of stats.

Games: 86
Goals: 15
Assists: 22
Points: 37

That really is not that bad at all. Look at Hischier, Lafreniere, Kaakko and others and he isn't doing that bad at all. He also improved in the non scoring parts of the game by a lot this past season. He was showing a very good ability to read plays in the d-zone and because of that, was making lots of nice plays that don't show up on the score sheet. While I would like that he was better at putting himself in open scoring spots closer to the net and better one-timer usage, the guy is still young and has 2 and a bit seasons spread over 3 years in the NHL, so how about relax a little. Now if he were to play all next season and only put up 30 pts or something, than I would start to worry a little more. Would also help greatly if he got to play with offensive talent, which we just don't have right now.

^ this . zadina 200' game of smart hard work impressed the heck outta me last season . he like tuzzi is constantly making positive plays that dont show up in stats . zadina made me a huge fan last season , joined larkin , tuzzi , hronek and razz as the leadership core of the next wave .

 

[Mister Ed]

Let me give you my 5 cents.

Here's what was said of Zadina right after he was picked by Detroit, on his NHL comparables :

Additionally, his 1.44 points-per-game rate was similar to that of Mikhail Grigorenko, Anthony Beauvillier and Zadina's countryman Jakub Voracek in their U19 QMJHL seasons. (SOURCE)

First NHL games

Grigorenko’s first 70 games: 6 goals, 8 assists (14 points) - Maybe note the greatest comparable, BUF royally screwed his developpement.
Voracek’s first 80 games: 9 goals, 29 assists (38 points)
Beauvillier’s first 60 games : 9 goals, 15 assists (24 points)

Zadina's first 86 games : 15 goals, 22 assists (37 points)

If he ends up like Voracek, I would say we have a pretty player on our hands.

 

[MBH]

Pastrnak, one of the biggest home-run draft picks of the last two decades?

Expectations aren't low.

Yes, it looks a bit unlikely that Zadina is the huge steal of a pick we hoped. He might not be a superstar. But he's still just played about one season worth of games, on a terrible team that generates very little offense.

Looking at his actual play this season, both Detroit and for the Czech at WHC, he's showing what he's growing into - a hard-working two-way winger with a variety of tools. Next step for him is improving every tool a little bit to get truly effective.

He might not be a superstar?
Right. I think that's pretty clear.

Vrana came here and showed you instantly what a shooter looks like.

I do think Zadina, if Yzerman doesn't trade him, will be a nice top 6 winger who can play with first liners or second liners. A softer version of Ondrej Palat.

 

[MBH]

Let me give you my 5 cents.

Here's what was said of Zadina right after he was picked by Detroit, on his NHL comparables :

Additionally, his 1.44 points-per-game rate was similar to that of Mikhail Grigorenko, Anthony Beauvillier and Zadina's countryman Jakub Voracek in their U19 QMJHL seasons. (SOURCE)

First NHL games

Grigorenko’s first 70 games: 6 goals, 8 assists (14 points) - Maybe note the greatest comparable, BUF royally screwed his developpement.
Voracek’s first 80 games: 9 goals, 29 assists (38 points)
Beauvillier’s first 60 games : 9 goals, 15 assists (24 points)

Zadina's first 86 games : 15 goals, 22 assists (37 points)

If he ends up like Voracek, I would say we have a pretty player on our hands.

Voracek is 6'2.

Voracek @ 19: 9-29-38
Voracek @ 20: 16-34-50
Voracek @ 21: 14-32-46

Zadina @ 19: 1-2-3
Zadina @ 20: 8-7-15
Zadina @ 21 6-13-19

Granted, Zadina played far fewer games.
But Voracek has been providing decent 2nd line production since he was 19.

 

[MBH]

Such a weird argument to pick a particular draft spot at #6 when everyone picked afterwards was available.

There are other spots in the draft order where a lot of the teams failed (I think it's our other draft spot #22). But anyone that was picked #7 was obviously available at #6, and #7 actually looks better than #6.

Yeah, you don't compare #6 year to year.
You compare #6 to the #7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 etc, in his own draft year.

Given the DIRE need for defensemen in this organization, and given that draft had more great defenseman than any in recent memory, and given the value of defense and how hard it is to acquire high level D anywhere but the draft.... to me, Zadina will always be compared to Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard and Dobson.

There are other defensemen from that draft who might be impressive, like Smith and K'Andre Miller and Sandin and Romanov. But that top 4 group is the one I regret passing over.