Zadina

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
17,008
17,993
I think it's fair to criticize the lack of scoring goals so far.

I don't think his shot is the issue, I think it's more about not consistently getting into scoring chances at even strength. When he has time and space on the PP, his shot looks plenty dangerous and effective to me.

I see the passing ability, hands, and the improved defensive play. I think he has good hockey sense. These are things I have always liked about him.

I think I expected a little more evolution in his skating and ability to generate scoring chances for himself. That said, he is still developing. I know guys like Pastrnak and Forsberg were effective earlier on, so I could see how the expectation for this year would be higher. But you also have guys like Max Pacioretty, who scored 6 goals in his first 86 games in the NHL, then went down to the AHL, then went on to become a consistent 30 goal scorer. So everyone's path is different. Hopefully he can continue improving and we surround him with better talent and things take off from there.

Almost all goalscorers in the NHL need a playmaker as their partner save for the very best such as Pavel Bure, Auston Matthews and Alex Ovechkin who are players that come along very seldom. Even these guys greatly benefit from playmakers.
And playmakers need guys like Zadina on their lines to bury the setups.

Ryan Smyth didn't become a goalscorer until he started getting regular icetime with Doug Weight. Bill Guerin was a 20 goal guy until he got ice with Doug Weight, Jason Allison, and Mike Modano. Matt Moulson became a 30 goal guy playing with Tavares. Joe Thornton helped turn Mike Knuble into a 30 goal guy as well. How many guys has Crosby turned into 20 and 30 goal scorers over the last 15 years?

I know a lot of these examples are different kinds of goalscorers than Zadina projects to be, but the point stands; Zadina needs someone that he has real chemistry with to create goals.

The best playmaker we have on this side of the Atlantic Ocean is Taro f***ing Hirose.
 
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Hen Kolland

Registered User
Feb 22, 2018
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I'd like to see him more active and moving a bit on the powerplay. I think it's more a function of our entire powerplay being stagnant. It's a gripe I've had about the redwings powerplay for some time. It seems as everyone is TOOO defined in their role and position. I watch other teams and there is a lot of movement and changing of positions, you know an actual cycle? Ours basically consists of force feeding Mantha and occasionally Zadina and every team knows that's the gameplan.

You are right, we are very defined and stationary at times. I don't know that we need to be swapping positions, but when you stop moving your feet, you make the PK's job so much easier. The opponents do know that the biggest threat is Zadina or Mantha and shade that side of the ice, but we have seen the change happen on the first powerplay unit. The puck moves through Larkin opposite of Zadina, but the puck and player movement is still incredibly predictable.

Zadina stands way to high in the zone above the faceoff circle because if he goes any deeper there's no angle to make him a passing threat for Hronek. I think part of this is because of how much longer it takes Hronek to move the puck to his right as opposed to the left. It's why many people wanted to see Cholowski get some real time. The high defender knows that if he applies quick pressure on Hronek that the puck will have to be moved quickly, and right now that means the puck goes back to Larkin. So our powerplay has kind of evolved into Larkin skating up high and taking a pass as he turns and starts to travel deeper in the zone. At that point, Ras pops out left of the goalie as a passing target, Erne is available at the bumper position in the high slot, and Zadina skates in deep for a cross slot one time opportunity. Of course Larkin can also set Ras up as a screen and opt to carry the puck and take the shot.

I would like to see Zadina moving more on the powerplay and get the puck and allow him the opportunity to skate and make the pass or shoot decision the same way that Larkin does. A one timer isn't the only thing that his shot is supposed to be, and his vision and ability to execute a pass through traffic is high end as well. But I encourage anyone to watch for a powerplay set up in tonight's game and watch the way that the unit moves, because odds are we will see at least 2-3 attempts at doing exactly what I described. And it might work...it's been our most effective set up for a while now, but it is still painfully predictable.
 
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TheOtherOne

Registered User
Jan 2, 2010
8,265
5,257
Almost all goalscorers in the NHL need a playmaker as their partner save for the very best such as Pavel Bure, Auston Matthews and Alex Ovechkin who are players that come along very seldom. Even these guys greatly benefit from playmakers.
And playmakers need guys like Zadina on their lines to bury the setups.

Ryan Smyth didn't become a goalscorer until he started getting regular icetime with Doug Weight. Bill Guerin was a 20 goal guy until he got ice with Doug Weight, Jason Allison, and Mike Modano. Matt Moulson became a 30 goal guy playing with Tavares. Joe Thornton helped turn Mike Knuble into a 30 goal guy as well. How many guys has Crosby turned into 20 and 30 goal scorers over the last 15 years?

I know a lot of these examples are different kinds of goalscorers than Zadina projects to be, but the point stands; Zadina needs someone that he has real chemistry with to create goals.

The best playmaker we have on this side of the Atlantic Ocean is Taro f***ing Hirose.
Good point, why isn't Hirose playing?

[Full disclosure I wanted to be snarky and say "Brome got more of a chance than he did" but I looked it up and turns out Hirose did play a few more games and minutes than Brome.]
 

Gniwder

Registered User
Oct 12, 2009
14,130
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Bellingham, WA
You are right, we are very defined and stationary at times. I don't know that we need to be swapping positions, but when you stop moving your feet, you make the PK's job so much easier. The opponents do know that the biggest threat is Zadina or Mantha and shade that side of the ice, but we have seen the change happen on the first powerplay unit. The puck moves through Larkin opposite of Zadina, but the puck and player movement is still incredibly predictable.

Zadina stands way to high in the zone above the faceoff circle because if he goes any deeper there's no angle to make him a passing threat for Hronek. I think part of this is because of how much longer it takes Hronek to move the puck to his right as opposed to the left. It's why many people wanted to see Cholowski get some real time. The high defender knows that if he applies quick pressure on Hronek that the puck will have to be moved quickly, and right now that means the puck goes back to Larkin. So our powerplay has kind of evolved into Larkin skating up high and taking a pass as he turns and starts to travel deeper in the zone. At that point, Ras pops out left of the goalie as a passing target, Erne is available at the bumper position in the high slot, and Zadina skates in deep for a cross slot one time opportunity. Of course Larkin can also set Ras up as a screen and opt to carry the puck and take the shot.

I would like to see Zadina moving more on the powerplay and get the puck and allow him the opportunity to skate and make the pass or shoot decision the same way that Larkin does. A one timer isn't the only thing that his shot is supposed to be, and his vision and ability to execute a pass through traffic is high end as well. But I encourage anyone to watch for a powerplay set up in tonight's game and watch the way that the unit moves, because odds are we will see at least 2-3 attempts at doing exactly what I described. And it might work...it's been our most effective set up for a while now, but it is still painfully predictable.
You are spot on, and Disco sucks. The PP has been extremely predictable during Disco's entire tenure, especially the last 2 years.

I doubt we see 2 or 3 attempts only because they suck at zone entry too, lol. Maybe one if we're lucky.
 

Barry Amsterdam

Nättias Dänielstrom
Apr 2, 2013
5,455
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it’s tough because they are using zadina as the handler and shooter on the PP. We have no good pp option on the other halfwall so the zadina - hronek pass is easy to cover as the defenders are already there. Look at washington’s. The other halfwall does all the work and feeds ovechkin when there’s a look. Can’t wait for raymond to come take that spot
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
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so....49 games, 6 goals, 13 assists for 19 total points

pretty meh, need our top picks to exceed expectations not the opposite
 
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13to40

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Feb 29, 2016
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Montreal
so....49 games, 6 goals, 13 assists for 19 total points

pretty meh, need our top picks to exceed expectations not the opposite

This past year has been very unique for everyone, not just athletes. I wouldn’t read too much into it.

Next year I think Zadina will finally have the breakout year most of us have been hoping for. I also think big Rasmussen will have a break out year as well. Full off season in the gym/power skating will help them both tremendously.
 

golffuul

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
4,923
2,784
so....49 games, 6 goals, 13 assists for 19 total points

pretty meh, need our top picks to exceed expectations not the opposite
He went from being a pretty one-dimensional shoot-first forward to being a more complete two-way forward in one year and that year had him dealing with COVID and the after-effects of having it. If he continues at this rate of growth, I think he can be a pretty amazing player. Considering his D+1 was a mandatory AHL stint to protect him from expansion and his D+2 year was this year and the last two years being sizable organizational shifts, I think another year of Yzerman’s “stability” and getting some more talent to play with and not having half of your top 6 being injured, will help a lot.
 

DetroitRed

Crashes the Crease
Apr 7, 2013
2,871
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Detroit
Going forward, almost 22 years old and with a full season's worth of NHL games under his belt, what's the next step up for him?

Is it fair to ask for at least 20 goals and 45 points in a season?
 
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newfy

Registered User
Jul 28, 2010
14,718
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Going forward, almost 22 years old and with a full season's worth of NHL games under his belt, what's the next step up for him?

Is it fair to ask for at least 20 goals and 45 points in a season?

Yeah I would be happy with 20+goals next year and continuing to play a good two way game like he has this season. Like has been said, hard to pull much from this year when a skilled guy like him basically played the entire season without skilled players on his line. Larkin is a pretty North South player but is good, but he also barely played wityh him. A lot of the time he was playing with guys like Gagner, Namestnikov and Erne. He was also on PP2 until Mantha got traded.

Overall, I would say this year doesnt worry me but he needs to take a step next season when there should be more skill in the lineup
 
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Cyborg Yzerberg

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,150
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Philadelphia
I was really pleased with Zadina this season. Frankly, I think he was our best forward all year until we acquired Vrana. I think Blashill choked all the offense out of this already offensively deficient team in the name of low-event hockey. I think he takes another step next season.
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
12,466
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Ontario
I was really pleased with Zadina this season. Frankly, I think he was our best forward all year until we acquired Vrana. I think Blashill choked all the offense out of this already offensively deficient team in the name of low-event hockey. I think he takes another step next season.

why do you think blashills system didnt choke out Vrana's offense?
 

DetroitRed

Crashes the Crease
Apr 7, 2013
2,871
951
Detroit
Yeah I would be happy with 20+goals next year and continuing to play a good two way game like he has this season. Like has been said, hard to pull much from this year when a skilled guy like him basically played the entire season without skilled players on his line. Larkin is a pretty North South player but is good, but he also barely played wityh him. A lot of the time he was playing with guys like Gagner, Namestnikov and Erne. He was also on PP2 until Mantha got traded.

Overall, I would say this year doesnt worry me but he needs to take a step next season when there should be more skill in the lineup
I think he's working pretty hard to improve, but yeah, it's almost like if he's going to put up good numbers, then he's going to have to learn to do that without necessarily playing on a good line. The bright side of that is he's on track for it.
 

GettingYourMoms

Registered User
Jun 6, 2018
2,049
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so....49 games, 6 goals, 13 assists for 19 total points

pretty meh, need our top picks to exceed expectations not the opposite
Larkin sucked and Hronek is leading team with 26 points and we are playing exciting dump and not chase style of hockey, but only problem is Zadina. ok then...
 

HisNoodliness

The Karate Kid and ASP Kai
Jun 29, 2014
3,652
2,022
Toronto
why do you think blashills system didnt choke out Vrana's offense?
I honestly think it's because Vrana wasn't running Blashill's system yet. It takes a while to adapt and situations where the rest of the team might dump the puck, Vrana might try to carry it in just for example. The carry in results in turnovers sometimes so Blashill would never advocate for it as any risk results in us losing and being blown out more frequently, but Vrana just came from Washington where making scoring plays is desirable even when there's some risk associated with it.

I also think there's something to be said for the fact that Vrana produced better during this stretch than he has at pretty much any other point in his NHL career. I think it's safe to assume that there's going to be some regression and we witnessed him in the middle of a hot streak. Whereas with the rest of the team we are evaluating both their hot and cold streaks.

Back to Zadina: I'm generally happy with him. I love his hard work and the way he rounded out his game this year. You can tell that he's committed and coachable.

I need to see his production go up soon if I'm going to continue to see him as having star winger upside. I think right now he's on track to become something between a first and second line winger as he continues developing. That's great, but I want him to be a star and I think he can be- but the production is giving me doubts, even with the context of being on an offensively starved team missing its best center and dealing with Covid.

Right now Zadina is playing well given the circumstances. I'd like to be able to say Zadina is playing well. Full stop. No need for context. No need to talk about effort and improving defensively or whatever. Because star players can overcome circumstance, elevate their game and produce. That's what I want from Zadina and I think he can do it.
 

TheMule93

On a mule rides the swindler
May 26, 2015
12,466
6,512
Ontario
Larkin sucked and Hronek is leading team with 26 points and we are playing exciting dump and not chase style of hockey, but only problem is Zadina. ok then...

This thread is about zadina. Why would i mention Larkin, Hronek, or anyone else in here?

Where do you suggest I go to discuss Zadina instead?
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
31,077
12,078
Tampere, Finland
it’s tough because they are using zadina as the handler and shooter on the PP. We have no good pp option on the other halfwall so the zadina - hronek pass is easy to cover as the defenders are already there. Look at washington’s. The other halfwall does all the work and feeds ovechkin when there’s a look. Can’t wait for raymond to come take that spot

Yep. Raymond will change everything.
 
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better Red than Dead

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Apr 23, 2021
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Before Zadina got Covid, he was one of the Wings better forwards, I’m hoping that was the real Zadina going forward and that between Covid and roster turnover affected him. He had some nice chemistry with Ryan. I’m expecting him to have a big year next year and prove his worth once and for all
 
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ArGarBarGar

What do we want!? Unfair!
Sep 8, 2008
44,017
11,677
In my opinion, next season is going to be the true test for Zadina and what he has to offer the NHL in his career. Assuming the league gets back to normal next year, Zadina will have a normal summer training camp, preseason, and ideally a typically scheduled 82 game season. It will be his first chance to get a full NHL season under his belt. If he doesn't improve, then I will be concerned.
 

19 for president

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Apr 28, 2002
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I think part of the issue with Zadina was that his offensive game is more suited to a cycle game than a N/S breakout offensive game. He needs some players that he can cycle with if he is going to be an effective scorer. His shot isn't quite elite enough to be like Ovie and just park in one position.

I really liked his playmaking and defense this season. I don't think he'll ever be Selke worthy but he isn't a total liability anymore. He's never really had chemistry with Larkin so I'd rather see those guys split up. I like him and Ras because I like that Ras creates space for him, and with more strength Ras could absolutely dominate a cycle game. If everyone is healthy I'd be game to keep him and Vrana together. Although I'm also pro seeing Larkin and V run and gun together a bit.

Vrana reminds me of AA if he cared a bit more and also was better at using his teammates. I think Vrana will regress some next year vs the pace he was on at the end, but AAs biggest fault was his inability to use his teammates. Vrana seems better at that, and he + Zadina have looked good so far.

I think 20+25 next year for Zadina is very reasonable.
 

OgeeOgelthorpe

Baldina
Feb 29, 2020
17,008
17,993
I think part of the issue with Zadina was that his offensive game is more suited to a cycle game than a N/S breakout offensive game. He needs some players that he can cycle with if he is going to be an effective scorer. His shot isn't quite elite enough to be like Ovie and just park in one position.

I really liked his playmaking and defense this season. I don't think he'll ever be Selke worthy but he isn't a total liability anymore. He's never really had chemistry with Larkin so I'd rather see those guys split up. I like him and Ras because I like that Ras creates space for him, and with more strength Ras could absolutely dominate a cycle game. If everyone is healthy I'd be game to keep him and Vrana together. Although I'm also pro seeing Larkin and V run and gun together a bit.

Vrana reminds me of AA if he cared a bit more and also was better at using his teammates. I think Vrana will regress some next year vs the pace he was on at the end, but AAs biggest fault was his inability to use his teammates. Vrana seems better at that, and he + Zadina have looked good so far.

I think 20+25 next year for Zadina is very reasonable.

In the few shifts that I saw him on the ice with Vrana the two of them had great chemistry. If the two are paired together next year I would expect that his offensive output is better.

What I don't want to see again is Zadina on Larkin's wing. Those two are like oil and water when paired together.
 

Larkin2AA

Registered User
Apr 21, 2016
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Rochester Hills, MI


I know we drafted this kid to score goals, but I was pretty impressed with the improvements he made to his overall game this season. He became a 200ft player that showed compete at all levels. Really like his vision for always trying to get into the open space, and his zone entry was spectacular at times. I think the goals will come for him when some of the talent we drafted makes their way to Detroit, but hopefully he gets more time with Vrana again next year. I would also love to see him with Raymond in the future, I think they would be great together.
 
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