Player Discussion Zack Kassian

[Drivesaitl]

You should really check out some of your own posts in the extension thread because you weren't a big fan of it.

I wasn't at all. But a take SHOULD be fluid based on whats happening. On what the players are respectively actually bringing.

For instance its not mutually exclusive to posit the following;

1) I didn't want extension, I didn't want the contract price.

2)The player is actually playing better than expected and bringing, at age 31 and mileage, what could reasonable be expected.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I wasn't at all. But a take SHOULD be fluid based on whats happening. On what the players are respectively actually bringing.

For instance its not mutually exclusive to posit the following;

1) I didn't want extension, I didn't want the contract price.

2)The player is actually playing better than expected and bringing, at age 31 and mileage, what could reasonable be expected.

But the points aren't there. If we're paying him 3.2 to bump players (and I do mean just bump them) then man do we have misplaced priorities. You could've told me he was out since November and I would've believed you.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Bringing... what, exactly? If he's sick then take yourself out of the lineup and stay out until you're healthy.

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Not even sure what you're attempting to demonstrate there for a bottomsix player, limited minutes, who can play up and down the lineup, can play pk, can be moved around a lot and is our most frequent hitter /60mins. Something you said he doesn't do. But then you walked your definition to "doesn't belt anyone" even though he does.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I like how this all started with me saying Kassian is 1 mill overpaid. Now has turned into people bitching about contracts in the future.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Not even sure what you're attempting to demonstrate there for a bottomsix player, limited minutes, who can play up and down the lineup, can play pk, can be moved around a lot and is our most frequent hitter /60mins. Something you said he doesn't do. But then you walked your definition to "doesn't belt anyone" even though he does.

Yeah he smacked the Habs goalie and earned himself a penalty that we immediately got scored on.

Also not really sure what you mean by limited minutes, he frequently plays about 12 every game. Last time he scored he was riding shotgun with McDavid and Draisatl.

Sam Gagner and Trevor Lewis put up comparable numbers for far less money.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I like how this all started with me saying Kassian is 1 mill overpaid. Now has turned into people bitching about contracts in the future.

I bitched about Kassian's contract the instant it was signed, because it was a bad contract, something we've seen quite often with Ken Holland. Kassian disappears for large stretches of time despite people frequently making excuses for him.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

I think Kassian is overpaid by 1 million and you think more like 1.5. Tomatoes potatoes.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I think Kassian is overpaid by 1 million and you think more like 1.5. Tomatoes potatoes.

Please read the bolded part.

Kassian should be making about half of his current deal, but it's not the cap hit that really bothers me, it's the fact he's here for another 2 1/2 years.

But you do bring up another point against this team. How many players on the team would you say aren't overpaid? Almost a combined 6 million for Kassian and Foegle to do nothing on the 4th line.

As always, giving term to depth players is a bad idea.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yeah he smacked the Habs goalie and earned himself a penalty that we immediately got scored on.

Also not really sure what you mean by limited minutes, he frequently plays about 12 every game. Last time he scored he was riding shotgun with McDavid and Draisatl.

Sam Gagner and Trevor Lewis put up comparable numbers for far less money.

Another thread popped up in which the team is "butter soft as charming" and the answer here in a thread on Kassian is that he doesn't put up as many pts as a skill player like Gagner?

The team moved from Larsson, Khaira, Lucic, Maroon and has decidedly less hitters in lineup in recent seasons and expecially this season. Kassian brings the hits, is a problem for opponents to play against, adds as much production as we get from any bottomsix player and has the best +/- rating of any of our bottomsix. He's been a reasonable player for us this season.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Please read the bolded part.


As always, giving term to depth players is a bad idea.

I did haha my point was I’m out. I think we actually mostly agree just slight disagreements not really worth arguing about.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Another thread popped up in which the team is "butter soft as charming" and the answer here in a thread on Kassian is that he doesn't put up as many pts as a skill player like Gagner?

The team moved from Larsson, Khaira, Lucic, Maroon and has decidedly less hitters in lineup in recent seasons and expecially this season. Kassian brings the hits, is a problem for opponents to play against, adds as much production as we get from any bottomsix player and has the best +/- rating of any of our bottomsix. He's been a reasonable player for us this season.

The answer is he's not making any sort of impact, at least that seems to be the way the coach sees it. I've seen the way Kassian can play when he's engaged, but he just has these long stretches where nothing happens because he's not moving his legs. Just looking at some of the posts in this thread from a couple months ago that basically say he's disengaged. You could tell me he wasn't even in the Caps game and I'd believe you.


Part of the reason the Oilers are soft is because of Kassian's play. He should be energizing the team and he's not.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The answer is he's not making any sort of impact, at least that seems to be the way the coach sees it. I've seen the way Kassian can play when he's engaged, but he just has these long stretches where nothing happens because he's not moving his legs. Just looking at some of the posts in this thread from a couple months ago that basically say he's disengaged. You could tell me he wasn't even in the Caps game and I'd believe you.


Part of the reason the Oilers are soft is because of Kassian's play. He should be energizing the team and he's not.

Nah, not even in the Caps game ws Kass disengaged. Drai was in a situation with Tom Wilson coming at him for the canning incident and Kass comes out on the ice and says to Tom Wilson, directly, knock it off. The exchanged ended there. Tom Wilson might have pursued further with Kass not being right there, and he was. Drai ws stupid enough not to go to the bench, and Kass came out and intervened.

Without Kass we're potentially talking about a situation where Drai is eating through a straw through Allstar break and how we need some player to intervene. Just the game prior Kass runs the opponent goalie and then stands up to any Hab on the ice that want to do anything about it and they all skate away. It was a lol moment. Kass answered the bell and won the fight a period later when somebody in the Habs lineup finally had the balls to fight him.

Drai "loves" having Kass on his line and has said so, multiple times. If Drai keeps pulling shit we're going to need somebody like Kass out there riding shotgun.

Even in the last 2 games the Nuge line with Hyman and Kass was our best line.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Nah, not even in the Caps game ws Kass disengaged. Drai was in a situation with Tom Wilson coming at him for the canning incident and Kass comes out on the ice and says to Tom Wilson, directly, knock it off. The exchanged ended there. Tom Wilson might have pursued further with Kass not being right there, and he was. Drai ws stupid enough not to go to the bench, and Kass came out and intervened.

Without Kass we're potentially talking about a situation where Drai is eating through a straw through Allstar break and how we need some player to intervene. Just the game prior Kass runs the opponent goalie and then stands up to any Hab on the ice that want to do anything about it and they all skate away. It was a lol moment. Kass answered the bell and won the fight a period later when somebody in the Habs lineup finally had the balls to fight him.

Drai "loves" having Kass on his line and has said so, multiple times. If Drai keeps pulling shit we're going to need somebody like Kass out there riding shotgun.

Even in the last 2 games the Nuge line with Hyman and Kass was our best line.

While I agree with the bolded, I think they were great in spite of Kassian. I just don't see it with this player, relegated to the fourth line, one of the few coaching decisions I actually agree with.

And the Caps still ran our show physically. Had Nuge/Hyman not come up big we'd probably be talking about a different story right now.

 

[Drivesaitl]

While I agree with the bolded, I think they were great in spite of Kassian. I just don't see it with this player, relegated to the fourth line, one of the few coaching decisions I actually agree with.

And the Caps still ran our show physically. Had Nuge/Hyman not come up big we'd probably be talking about a different story right now.

Look, Kass is a third. he's not a 2nd on topsix or with skill players. . If you move him up you do as a third. Kass was more than fine as a third on that line 2 games running and supported the possession, cycle, and Nuge had two of his best games all season, playing with Kassian and Hyman. In the game you said Kass was "disengaged and doing nothing"

As to the bolded it seems as if you'd like that. you're so disenchanted with the club ( I get it) that if often seems you'd be more comfortable talking about them if they were just losing all the time. Just the way it comes off. As others have mentioned it seems strange to just follow the club hoping for its demise.

 

[Aerchon]

Kassian overall imo is only overpaid by approximately 1/2 mill but is also signed an extra year. That's less than some here are saying but that is still a lot of money/term. If Holland does that on every/most contracts we are drastically reducing our cap space relative to other teams. 5 to 10 mill of overpays scattered throughout the roster is brutal.

His current play is absolutely uninspiring and as such his contract looks even worse.

I "know" Kassian is capable of being a much better player that he has shown since signing that contract. I hope he can play up to more like what he can moving forward. When playing well Kassian absolutely can help the team win but I don't know how anyone says he is playing well enough that if he were gone we would likely be better for it.

Obviously Holland is a terrible GM and this doesn't apply to him but for most GM Kassians cap hit could be spent far better than what this player is currently performing at.

 

[GOilers88]

Yeah he smacked the Habs goalie and earned himself a penalty that we immediately got scored on.

Also not really sure what you mean by limited minutes, he frequently plays about 12 every game. Last time he scored he was riding shotgun with McDavid and Draisatl.

Sam Gagner and Trevor Lewis put up comparable numbers for far less money.

And people bitched about "Sammy Snowpants" when he was here too.

 

[GOilers88]

The answer is he's not making any sort of impact, at least that seems to be the way the coach sees it. I've seen the way Kassian can play when he's engaged, but he just has these long stretches where nothing happens because he's not moving his legs. Just looking at some of the posts in this thread from a couple months ago that basically say he's disengaged. You could tell me he wasn't even in the Caps game and I'd believe you.


Part of the reason the Oilers are soft is because of Kassian's play. He should be energizing the team and he's not.

Also you could say the first part about almost every single player on the roster. Nobody brings it every shift other than maybe Yamo and JP. The only thing the team consistently does as a team is play uninspired hockey which is why I finally agreed that we need a coaching change. It makes the most sense.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Also you could say the first part about almost every single player on the roster. Nobody brings it every shift other than maybe Yamo and JP. The only thing the team consistently does as a team is play uninspired hockey which is why I finally agreed that we need a coaching change. It makes the most sense.

I 100% agree with that, but Kassian's had these issues long before Holland was even here.

And people bitched about "Sammy Snowpants" when he was here too.

He sure gave a shit most nights, though. That fight with Kesler will always be a fond memory.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Not saying they don't count. Just saying the dude has one goal since November and doesn't appear to be finding his way out of that slide anytime soon, especially as he slowly sinks in the lineup.

Want me to list the players on this team with less goals over the last couple months? Yeah, again Kass is not the problem it seems.

 

[GOilers88]

I 100% agree with that, but Kassian's had these issues long before Holland was even here.


He sure gave a shit most nights, though. That fight with Kesler will always be a fond memory.

I dunno. I thought he was a lot more consistent before he got his lengthy extension. I agree with you about it being a bad contract, and I think with bottom six bangers and complimentary guys like that you need to keep them on short term deals to keep them hungry. For this season I think all we can do is hope that everyone decides to put on their big boy pants come playoff time.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Want me to list the players on this team with less goals over the last couple months? Yeah, again Kass is not the problem it seems.

Kassian was extended in January of 2020. He has 10 goals in that time span, with lots of time missed due to injury/suspension. Not even remotely worth it.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I dunno. I thought he was a lot more consistent before he got his lengthy extension. I agree with you about it being a bad contract, and I think with bottom six bangers and complimentary guys like that you need to keep them on short term deals to keep them hungry. For this season I think all we can do is hope that everyone decides to put on their big boy pants come playoff time.

Consistency was always an issue with Zack, but he certainly put in better performances when tied to McDavid (big surprise). I've heard the playoffs excuse too many times, it's pretty clear 2017 was an outlier, but I hope he wakes up from whatever coma he's in.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Consistency was always an issue with Zack, but he certainly put in better performances when tied to McDavid (big surprise). I've heard the playoffs excuse too many times, it's pretty clear 2017 was an outlier, but I hope he wakes up from whatever coma he's in.

I do agree he has got too comfortable now that his contract is signed. I also think he tries too hard to be a skilled player.

 

[SwedishFire]

Keith and Barrie are also here for next season. Foegle is not currently playing like he's worth 2.75. Mike Smith isn't living up to his contract (lol another season left)..

Oh and the 4 mil in dead cap certainly isn't helping either.

But back to Kassian for a second, if his contract was ending this year then it'd be fine, but he's still here for another 2 years. We're not even halfway done this contract and it already sucks hind banana. Of course, we were warned about this from Wings fans...

But why doesnt Holland learn from his misstakes?? What did he really thought about Kassian?? Those type of players is at beat when they have short deals in meed to constantly prove their worth (Im very bad now for saying this). I dont mind the cap, he was that good. I mind the length.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Kassian was extended in January of 2020. He has 10 goals in that time span, with lots of time missed due to injury/suspension. Not even remotely worth it.

Agreed on last season, and last season I was saying Kass was not useful. This season he has been. As others have stated overpaid, around 1M. But that isn't the discussion we're having.