News Article: Zack Kassian placed in stage 2 Part II - Mod Warning in Post#1

Brainiac

Registered Offender
Feb 17, 2013
12,709
610
Montreal
Kassian has had a troubled past since his junior days. If that is the type of character you want to bring in to help you win the cup then it is on Bergevin. The guy didn't even make it to opening night.

What a load of ****.

We got rid of Prust who, at 2.5M, basically had negative value. Getting nothing in return would have been great. We got a 5th round pick and a chance at having a sober Kassian.

For all we know, he goes to rehab and comes back in good shape. If not, who cares? We got rid of Prust, who was a real crybaby last year.

Kassian is suspended, his salary doesn't count. That might be the extra few pro-rated cap millions we need for a critical addition come trade deadline.
 

groovejuice

Without deviation progress is not possible
Jun 27, 2011
19,277
18,222
Calgary
What a load of ****.

We got rid of Prust who, at 2.5M, basically had negative value. Getting nothing in return would have been great. We got a 5th round pick and a chance at having a sober Kassian.

For all we know, he goes to rehab and comes back in good shape. If not, who cares? We got rid of Prust, who was a real crybaby last year.

Kassian is suspended, his salary doesn't count. That might be the extra few pro-rated cap millions we need for a critical addition come trade deadline.

I don't completely agree with your evaluation of Prust, but in generally in agreement with the rest. Kassian was a cheap experiment. Not looking great now, but he might recover and be valuable. Prayers and thoughts up.
 

mikemcburn

Registered User
Oct 23, 2013
2,233
0
LOL.
What a load of wind.
The recovery and relapse rates for addicts are easily verifiable. Nobody is speculating on odds.
They are what they are. I'm telling you from experience the success rate is even lower for court appointed cases. I've given you one of a number of different reasons why. Young addicts and offenders just aren't usually ready to admit defeat.

You're correct - you have loads of wind ;)

Incidentally, there was no dispute that "the success rate is even lower for court appointed cases". Me, I wouldn't know, but then that wasn't the point being challenged. Nor did I dispute that Kassian's odds of success may be slim, again I wouldn't know. Sheesh, I didn't even tender an opinion as to what his odds may in fact be. I'm not professing to be an expert in such matters or even to have any relevant experience of the same. That's your side of the equation, and I defer to your claim of experience as a matter of goodwill.

I simply challenged your claim that Kassian's odds will be slim "particularly" because, as you allege, he is "essentially" in the same boat as those who enter rehab to avoid jail. As the situations are in no way similar, the basic premise behind your assertion is simply and fundamentally faulty. Get it?

Look, obviously you don't have a counter point to raise to void my challenge (although if someone else does, I'd be keen to get the input) because otherwise you'd have actually said as much rather than plugging in your little inferred digs and trying to change the topic altogether. But, FYI - not every exchange has to be taken so personally that one either has to "win" the debate or default to salving the ego by inserting erroneous slights. Ppl can actually and simply engage in a discussion, give 'n take points made, etc. It could have just been a convo. Just sayin'
 

BobbyShehan

Registered User
May 29, 2008
931
222
NJ
Actually, I'm of the thought that the issue of being "forced" into rehab in fact works the opposite in this case - that is, being "forced" isn't a factor that could lead to rehab failure, but rather rehab success.

For starters, let's dismiss the idea that the NHL/NHLPA's substance abuse program requirement for any player is in any way analogous someone being under a court order to obtain rehab. People under a court order do not, presumably, have a choice. Players do have a choice - they are not going to be carried to the local hospital/rehab center under police escort.

Getting a court order to force someone to obtain help for substance abuse is an incredible challenge (just ask the slew of people who have unsuccessfully begged for this level of intervention for a family member!) - generally, it's impossible to get court ordered or police inspired intervention for someone with a substance abuse problem, even if triggered by an underlying mental disorder, unless it's successfully argued that the person is an immediate threat to self or others.

And therein is the rub - people simply have the right to destroy their lives... Kassian has the right to decline the NHL/NHLPA's offer of help/rehab. Of course, the NHL/NHLPA have the corresponding right not to reinstate the kid as an active - and paid - player. Meaning Kassian's choice is not to get help fixing himself or go to jail, but to get help fixing himself if he wants that paycheque for that job.

And therein is the upside, because often enough people who need help will actually choose to get that help precisely so that they don't lose their paycheque (or spouse, children, home, whatever/whoever it is that they choose as a priority over continuing to exercise their right to destroy their life). For so many average joes though,they have so many enablers (employers who don't see/care about the problem, family unwilling to do tough love, etc.) that they don't get help before rock bottom - before having already lost everything.

So really, Kassian is not in situation more likely to lead to failure because he's been "forced" into it, but rather he's simply in the same situation as so many others - get help or destroy your life. No different than the alcoholic who goes into rehab to keep his job, the druggie who goes into rehab to keep his family, etc.

Maybe the only difference is that unlike many average joes, Kassian has the benefit of an employer who isn't going to enable him - and bonus is going to cover all the costs for his special private health/medical care.

All in, when considering the likelihood of Kassian successfully rehabbing, I see the issue of him being "forced" to get help as being a favourable factor, or at worst entirely irrelevant.

This is the most relevant and intelligent post of this thread. "Stupidity" or "...he has nothing between his ears" has nothing to do with addiction. Are you stupid because you get cancer? Addiction is a disease and should be treated as such. There are doctors, judges, politicians who are functioning addicts. Are they all stupid? Did they choose to be addicts? Tobacco addiction will kill you, for sure. Everybody knows that. But when you start at 12 or 13, you'll most probably smoke your whole life. Same with alcohol or drugs.
 

IComeInPeace

Registered User
Jun 16, 2009
2,477
908
LA
I remember how much Benning was ripped by Canucks fans when the trade happened, I feel kinda bad for the guy now. It's not like you can come out and say "wait, we had to pay the Habs to take him because he's such a problem child". You just have to swallow it and take a beating in the media from people who don't know the whole story.
I'm not sure those Benning fans want/wanted the whole story anyways.

If you peer in over there, those same guys are still claiming they were right, and this stuff coming out about Kass changes nothing relating to the Prust for Kass and a 5th trade.

It's the Internet. Nothing has to make sense. Just type frantically and try and get the last word in, I guess.
 

Brainiac

Registered Offender
Feb 17, 2013
12,709
610
Montreal
I don't completely agree with your evaluation of Prust, but in generally in agreement with the rest. Kassian was a cheap experiment. Not looking great now, but he might recover and be valuable. Prayers and thoughts up.

Prust would have been a complete negative this year. You can't afford to carry 2.5M 4th liners anymore. Especially if the guy starts whining about the refs and does cheap trash talking.

At 2.5M, I want elite trash talking and nothing less. :laugh:
 

Nynja*

Guest
While in Stage 2 Rehab, perhaps he should read a few books on the history of The Montreal Canadiens, so he actually is aware of the honor involved in wearing the uniform, representing the team, fans and Quebec.:nod:

Yes, the "honor and pride" of wearing the uniform of a team that hasnt been to the cup finals in 21 seasons. Do you think Prust was worried about the "pride and honor" of the jersey when he was blasting Watson to the media? Do you think Kovalev cared about the jersey when he showed up 25% of the time? Don't you think players would jump at the opportunity to play for "the most storied franchise in the NHL" if offered a contract?

The only ones with "honor and pride" in the jersey is the fans.
 

Rapala

Registered User
Mar 29, 2013
39,568
35,221
Montreal
You're correct - you have loads of wind ;)

Incidentally, there was no dispute that "the success rate is even lower for court appointed cases". Me, I wouldn't know, but then that wasn't the point being challenged. Nor did I dispute that Kassian's odds of success may be slim, again I wouldn't know. Sheesh, I didn't even tender an opinion as to what his odds may in fact be. I'm not professing to be an expert in such matters or even to have any relevant experience of the same. That's your side of the equation, and I defer to your claim of experience as a matter of goodwill.

I simply challenged your claim that Kassian's odds will be slim "particularly" because, as you allege, he is "essentially" in the same boat as those who enter rehab to avoid jail. As the situations are in no way similar, the basic premise behind your assertion is simply and fundamentally faulty. Get it?

Look, obviously you don't have a counter point to raise to void my challenge (although if someone else does, I'd be keen to get the input) because otherwise you'd have actually said as much rather than plugging in your little inferred digs and trying to change the topic altogether. But, FYI - not every exchange has to be taken so personally that one either has to "win" the debate or default to salving the ego by inserting erroneous slights. Ppl can actually and simply engage in a discussion, give 'n take points made, etc. It could have just been a convo. Just sayin'


Look there is no counter point that ever needed to be raised.
I made a simple statement based on my experiences.
More than half won't make it first time around no matter what.
None made it first time around of the court appointed cases i got to know over a two year period.
Very rare is the youth 18 - 25 who is ready to admit they are not in control and that their lives have become unmanageable. Best to excuse me for not finding your replies even closely relevant to the truth of these basic facts.
Much of what you posted seemed to me to be very much off point.
 
Last edited:

phoque taupe

Registered User
May 15, 2010
2,167
0
Montréal
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/nhl-cocaine-use-on-the-rise

“The number of [cocaine] positives are more than they were in previous years and they’re going up,†NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told TSN in an interview. “I wouldn’t say it’s a crisis in any sense. What I’d say is drugs like cocaine are cyclical and you’ve hit a cycle where it’s an ‘in’ drug again.

'And yesterday, the league announced that Canadiens forward Zack Kassian had been placed in Stage Two of the Substance Abuse and Behavioral Health Program of the NHL and NHLPA. That means this isn’t Kassian’s first positive drug test and he must be cleared by doctors before he is allowed back in the league.'

lets take those words out of context and link em together
:sarcasm:
 

Tuggy

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Nov 26, 2003
48,844
15,417
Saint John
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/10/nhl-cocaine-use-on-the-rise

“The number of [cocaine] positives are more than they were in previous years and they’re going up,†NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly told TSN in an interview. “I wouldn’t say it’s a crisis in any sense. What I’d say is drugs like cocaine are cyclical and you’ve hit a cycle where it’s an ‘in’ drug again.

'And yesterday, the league announced that Canadiens forward Zack Kassian had been placed in Stage Two of the Substance Abuse and Behavioral Health Program of the NHL and NHLPA. That means this isn’t Kassian’s first positive drug test and he must be cleared by doctors before he is allowed back in the league.'

lets take those words out of context and link em together
:sarcasm:

Meh, I'm already over Kassian. I'm not going to sit here and cry over a multi-million dollar athlete throwing away the amazing gift he was given. If he's more interested in getting high and partying then that's his choice. There is always someone more dedicated and disciplined waiting for their chance to take his place.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,418
13,199
Toronto, Ontario
OK, being in the states, I may be missing some of the circumstantial evidence you people are getting.

Court adjourned until tomorrow.

The only thing you are missing in the States is ignorant fan boys jumping to conclusions.

Zack Kassian has battled alcohol issues since his Junior hockey days. Several fans in this thread seem to not understand that for the NHL's program alcohol and drugs are both referred to as "substances."

The feeble attempt to make 1 and 1 equal two simply because the NHL released a statement about cocaine use the day Kassian entered the program is really quite shameful.

What we do know, and maybe you haven't got this news stateside, is that Kassian was not tested for any kind of intoxicants after the accident and therefore, even if he were using cocaine, nobody would know this at all, so all of this shameful speculation and dragging Kassian's name through the mud is purely fabricated and speculation with zero evidence and zero basis in fact.

Some of the "fans" in this thread are really embarrassing.
 

Davebo*

Guest
This is another example of Bergevin not doing enough as GM to make the team better. I haven't been that impressed with many of his moves. Too many lateral moves.

But why do YOU care? You, based on your post history, are not a Habs fan.

The fact you are not impressed - and you're a sens fan :laugh: - makes me feel infinitely better.
 

ColinO

Registered User
Jul 24, 2015
1,723
191
The only thing you are missing in the States is ignorant fan boys jumping to conclusions.

Zack Kassian has battled alcohol issues since his Junior hockey days. Several fans in this thread seem to not understand that for the NHL's program alcohol and drugs are both referred to as "substances."

The feeble attempt to make 1 and 1 equal two simply because the NHL released a statement about cocaine use the day Kassian entered the program is really quite shameful.

What we do know, and maybe you haven't got this news stateside, is that Kassian was not tested for any kind of intoxicants after the accident and therefore, even if he were using cocaine, nobody would know this at all, so all of this shameful speculation and dragging Kassian's name through the mud is purely fabricated and speculation with zero evidence and zero basis in fact.

Some of the "fans" in this thread are really embarrassing.

^^This.
 

Lshap

Hardline Moderate
Jun 6, 2011
27,554
25,676
Montreal
Stick to the facts and avoid personal speculation linking Kassian to other substances and organizations.
 

mitchmagic

Registered User
Apr 25, 2006
3,665
1,224
Montreal, Qc
www.typeonefilms.com
If you have a lot of money, travel a lot, and have specific times "off", cocaine will find many.

You see it in the military frequently. Nothing else to spend your money on other than drugs and alcohol. Obviously not everyone is using, but in those types of close-knit atmospheres with little time off, it tends to be rather frequent.
 

ColinO

Registered User
Jul 24, 2015
1,723
191
If you have a lot of money, travel a lot, and have specific times "off", cocaine will find many.

You see it in the military frequently. Nothing else to spend your money on other than drugs and alcohol. Obviously not everyone is using, but in those types of close-knit atmospheres with little time off, it tends to be rather frequent.

Do tell. And where do you come by this inside information? I know lots of guys in the military and a few athletes and none of them use cocaine. And I freely admit that my anecdote is meaningless. Do you have an actually source for your assertion?
 

mitchmagic

Registered User
Apr 25, 2006
3,665
1,224
Montreal, Qc
www.typeonefilms.com
Do tell. And where do you come by this inside information? I know lots of guys in the military and a few athletes and none of them use cocaine. And I freely admit that my anecdote is meaningless. Do you have an actually source for your assertion?

Many many people close to me are in the military.

Just directed a documentary largely about the military and spent a lot of time in that world.

It's obviously just anecdotal but it's what I witnessed and experienced.
 

ColinO

Registered User
Jul 24, 2015
1,723
191
Many many people close to me are in the military.

Just directed a documentary largely about the military and spent a lot of time in that world.

It's obviously just anecdotal but it's what I witnessed and experienced.

Don't you think it's irresponsible and unfair to cite your own personal experiences with the military to make sweeping generalizations about cocaine use in the NHL on a thread dealing with a car accident involving one individual NHL player in which there is not one speck of evidence that cocaine was involved?
I do.
 

Ohashi_Jouzu*

Registered User
Apr 2, 2007
30,332
11
Halifax
Don't you think it's irresponsible and unfair to cite your own personal experiences with the military to make sweeping generalizations about cocaine use in the NHL on a thread dealing with a car accident involving one individual NHL player in which there is not one speck of evidence that cocaine was involved?
I do.

Uh, I think Bill Daly made the "sweeping generalizations" about cocaine use in the NHL (“The number of [cocaine] positives are more than they were in previous years and they’re going up,â€), and mitch just brought up his recent experience seeing drugs/alcohol creep into "close-knit (military) atmospheres".
 

ColinO

Registered User
Jul 24, 2015
1,723
191
Uh, I think Bill Daly made the "sweeping generalizations" about cocaine use in the NHL (“The number of [cocaine] positives are more than they were in previous years and they’re going up,â€), and mitch just brought up his recent experience seeing drugs/alcohol creep into "close-knit (military) atmospheres".

So what does that have to do with Zach Kassian?
 

hototogisu

Poked the bear!!!!!
Jun 30, 2006
41,189
79
Montreal, QC
The vehicle Zack Kassian was in when it crashed and injured the new member of the Montreal Canadiens appears to be tied to a company owned by the son of a man who had close ties to Vito Rizzuto, before the mob boss died.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...hip-owned-by-son-of-former-rizzutto-associate

About the only worthwhile thing in that article is this:

A spokesperson for the Montreal police said on Tuesday that the investigation into the crash is ongoing and that a blood sample was taken from the 20-year-old driver of the vehicle and that investigators have asked for it to be analyzed by a laboratory. He also said it could take “weeks or even months†to get results from the analysis and that until then no charges are likely to be filed.
 

Bryson

#EugeneMolson
Jun 25, 2008
7,113
4,321
Meh, I'm already over Kassian. I'm not going to sit here and cry over a multi-million dollar athlete throwing away the amazing gift he was given. If he's more interested in getting high and partying then that's his choice. There is always someone more dedicated and disciplined waiting for their chance to take his place.

Except that nobody chooses to be addicted. It's not like deciding to go out drinking on a saturday night with your buddies. If it's gotten to the point where addiction has taken over his life and preventing him from functioning properly then it's a whole other animal.

As somebody who suffers from addiction himself, sometimes the brain and the body act in disaccord and differing interests. I truly hope Kassian finds the help that he needs. It gonna be an uphill battle and many addicts don't recover until they've hit rock bottom. As I said before, MB made a mistake in bringing him here. MTL is not a good place for a guy like him.

Mike Ribeiro's life was out of control before he was traded. He managed to have a family and make a very good career for himself. Given his current allegations as proof that people never truly change, best we can hope for is to wrestle our demons to a stalemate.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad