News Article: Zack Kassian placed in stage 2 Part II - Mod Warning in Post#1

[Team_Spirit]

LOL

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leroiducamion/

 

[Rapala]

Um, actually, you, the addict, are the only person who can beat addiction.

All the help in the world means nothing if the person who's suffering doesn't want to get better. And sure, a good support system helps a lot if you're really trying to make a go of it, and different people may need different amounts of support once they've decided to kick it, but the first and most important prerequisite for beating addiction is intrinsic motivation.

Unfortunately you are correct the success rates of these programs is very slim.
Particularly for those forced into rehabilitation by court appointment,
which is essentially where Zach is at.
He will certainly be able to get clean in the next thirty days or so but staying clean will be his lifelong struggle. I wish him the best and hope he finds his answers on the first take.

 

[Rapala]

LOL

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leroiducamion/

LOL for sure.
I refuse to comment any further for fear of repercussion.

 

[Runner77]

LOL

https://www.flickr.com/photos/leroiducamion/

Guaranteed that smashed up truck ends up here in a week or so: https://www.flickr.com/photos/leroiducamion/albums/72157626366556969

T'inquiètes! Yé flambant neuf!

 

[Alexdaman]

Addicted to what? Partying with young and hot girls until after dawn?

Where do I sign up?

 

[rockjngo]

Kassian is done as a Hab. So funny, it never lift off and he's done. This team is about class and he doesn't have class.

 

[mikemcburn]

Unfortunately you are correct the success rates of these programs is very slim.
Particularly for those forced into rehabilitation by court appointment,
which is essentially where Zach is at.
He will certainly be able to get clean in the next thirty days or so but staying clean will be his lifelong struggle. I wish him the best and hope he finds his answers on the first take.

Actually, I'm of the thought that the issue of being "forced" into rehab in fact works the opposite in this case - that is, being "forced" isn't a factor that could lead to rehab failure, but rather rehab success.

For starters, let's dismiss the idea that the NHL/NHLPA's substance abuse program requirement for any player is in any way analogous someone being under a court order to obtain rehab. People under a court order do not, presumably, have a choice. Players do have a choice - they are not going to be carried to the local hospital/rehab center under police escort.

Getting a court order to force someone to obtain help for substance abuse is an incredible challenge (just ask the slew of people who have unsuccessfully begged for this level of intervention for a family member!) - generally, it's impossible to get court ordered or police inspired intervention for someone with a substance abuse problem, even if triggered by an underlying mental disorder, unless it's successfully argued that the person is an immediate threat to self or others.

And therein is the rub - people simply have the right to destroy their lives... Kassian has the right to decline the NHL/NHLPA's offer of help/rehab. Of course, the NHL/NHLPA have the corresponding right not to reinstate the kid as an active - and paid - player. Meaning Kassian's choice is not to get help fixing himself or go to jail, but to get help fixing himself if he wants that paycheque for that job.

And therein is the upside, because often enough people who need help will actually choose to get that help precisely so that they don't lose their paycheque (or spouse, children, home, whatever/whoever it is that they choose as a priority over continuing to exercise their right to destroy their life). For so many average joes though,they have so many enablers (employers who don't see/care about the problem, family unwilling to do tough love, etc.) that they don't get help before rock bottom - before having already lost everything.

So really, Kassian is not in situation more likely to lead to failure because he's been "forced" into it, but rather he's simply in the same situation as so many others - get help or destroy your life. No different than the alcoholic who goes into rehab to keep his job, the druggie who goes into rehab to keep his family, etc.

Maybe the only difference is that unlike many average joes, Kassian has the benefit of an employer who isn't going to enable him - and bonus is going to cover all the costs for his special private health/medical care.

All in, when considering the likelihood of Kassian successfully rehabbing, I see the issue of him being "forced" to get help as being a favourable factor, or at worst entirely irrelevant.

 

[smcgreg]

The vehicle Zack Kassian was in when it crashed and injured the new member of the Montreal Canadiens appears to be tied to a company owned by the son of a man who had close ties to Vito Rizzuto, before the mob boss died.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...hip-owned-by-son-of-former-rizzutto-associate

The comments at the bottom of the article pretty much say it all. This is a story why?

 

[Wats]

I don't think it's safe to assume that at all. It's way too early to assume anything, but I would be genuinely shocked if Kassian doesn't play for the Montreal Canadiens this season.

I think he's going to be used as an example to prevent anything 'non-character' in the future.

 

[teh doors]

People throwing Kassian under the bus suck

Lots of players in a Habs or any NHL sweater, or minor league, or other pro sport, etc make mistakes or been in the news for things (or avoid being reported)

I'm rooting for this player, hope he gets it going and the team gives him a second chance. I think he can be one helluva player, Montreal can really use him

From the news clips I saw, Therrien looked like a jerk talking about it, I liked seeing Price and Subban supporting their teammate on TSN

 

[Rapala]

Actually, I'm of the thought that the issue of being "forced" into rehab in fact works the opposite in this case - that is, being "forced" isn't a factor that could lead to rehab failure, but rather rehab success.

For starters, let's dismiss the idea that the NHL/NHLPA's substance abuse program requirement for any player is in any way analogous someone being under a court order to obtain rehab. People under a court order do not, presumably, have a choice. Players do have a choice - they are not going to be carried to the local hospital/rehab center under police escort.

Getting a court order to force someone to obtain help for substance abuse is an incredible challenge (just ask the slew of people who have unsuccessfully begged for this level of intervention for a family member!) - generally, it's impossible to get court ordered or police inspired intervention for someone with a substance abuse problem, even if triggered by an underlying mental disorder, unless it's successfully argued that the person is an immediate threat to self or others.

And therein is the rub - people simply have the right to destroy their lives... Kassian has the right to decline the NHL/NHLPA's offer of help/rehab. Of course, the NHL/NHLPA have the corresponding right not to reinstate the kid as an active - and paid - player. Meaning Kassian's choice is not to get help fixing himself or go to jail, but to get help fixing himself if he wants that paycheque for that job.

And therein is the upside, because often enough people who need help will actually choose to get that help precisely so that they don't lose their paycheque (or spouse, children, home, whatever/whoever it is that they choose as a priority over continuing to exercise their right to destroy their life). For so many average joes though,they have so many enablers (employers who don't see/care about the problem, family unwilling to do tough love, etc.) that they don't get help before rock bottom - before having already lost everything.

So really, Kassian is not in situation more likely to lead to failure because he's been "forced" into it, but rather he's simply in the same situation as so many others - get help or destroy your life. No different than the alcoholic who goes into rehab to keep his job, the druggie who goes into rehab to keep his family, etc.

Maybe the only difference is that unlike many average joes, Kassian has the benefit of an employer who isn't going to enable him - and bonus is going to cover all the costs for his special private health/medical care.

All in, when considering the likelihood of Kassian successfully rehabbing, I see the issue of him being "forced" to get help as being a favourable factor, or at worst entirely irrelevant.

Well speaking from experience as one who has helped run meetings in Jails and Institutions for cross addicted folks, I'll stick with what simple knowledge I do have. Court appointed rehabilitations are usually the result of a plea. I'm not 100% sure if that is what happened in Zach's case but it sure fits that model. It isn't hard to understand these folks are simply trying to avoid jail time. Most will scamper back to the people, places, and things that got them sent up in the first place at their earliest possible convenience.

 

[Runner77]

The vehicle Zack Kassian was in when it crashed and injured the new member of the Montreal Canadiens appears to be tied to a company owned by the son of a man who had close ties to Vito Rizzuto, before the mob boss died.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/loc...hip-owned-by-son-of-former-rizzutto-associate

Noticing how Kassian's agent is claiming he had no knowledge of the company's status. Really? Isn't that part of what an agent should be doing, making sure his client is not associating himself with individuals or corporations that haven't first been vetted?

 

[kassian]

Kassian should've known better not to let some drunk bimbo drive him around. Very irresponsible.

The thing that pisses me off the most about this situation, though, is that I get to hear French reporters pronounce Zack's name as ''Kayshun'' on the radio about 100 times a day.

 

[mikemcburn]

Well speaking from experience as one who has helped run meetings in Jails and Institutions for cross addicted folks, I'll stick with what simple knowledge I do have. Court appointed rehabilitations are usually the result of a plea. I'm not 100% sure if that is what happened in Zach's case but it sure fits that model. It isn't hard to understand these folks are simply trying to avoid jail time. Most will scamper back to the people, places, and things that got them sent up in the first place at their earliest possible convenience.

Precisely, meaning the subject has a choice. So does Kassian. So do most people who enter rehab. Obviously the choices are different (ie: serve jail time for x crime or enter rehab, versus lose job or enter rehab), but they still have a choice to make.

If I understand your inference correctly, another difference is the terms of the choice, so I should ask - do you mean that the court might order x type of program for y duration to avoid jail time? Or does the court, can the court, order the subject to successfully complete a rehab program of indefinite length?

I flag this because the terms of the first scenario (x program for y duration = automatically skip jail time) just don't apply to Kassian. He's not been given the choice to lose his job or show up for x program at the local non-profit for y duration = automatically get job back. His choice is actually to either outright lose his job, or to undertake a program/process that will be tailor made for his unique circumstances/needs, cover his living costs, etc. as/if needed, and only if he successfully completes the program might only might get his job back.

Kassian isn't being tossed over to some generic non-profit where he only has to put in face time to bypass jail. The kid will get all of the bells 'n whistles of tailor-made health and medical care, and he'll have to successfully complete the expectations made of him to get his job back. So, I kinda figure Kassian's motivation to do more than show up will be significantly higher than those who choose to serve rehab time over jail time.

But hey, who knows.

 

[Sterling Archer]

This is another example of Bergevin not doing enough as GM to make the team better. I haven't been that impressed with many of his moves. Too many lateral moves.

Yet when he took over as GM we finished last in the east. Now we're one of the best teams in the NHL.

I think you need to look up the word "lateral."

 

[Habnot]

Yet when he took over as GM we finished last in the east. Now we're one of the best teams in the NHL.

I think you need to look up the word "lateral."

You know that will bring the obligatory "Carey Price" trump card

 

[groovejuice]

Addicted to what? Partying with young and hot girls until after dawn?

Where do I sign up?

Either ignorant, or too soon. Not sure which.

 

[Rikiki Bousquet]

Kassian should've known better not to let some drunk bimbo drive him around. Very irresponsible.

The thing that pisses me off the most about this situation, though, is that I get to hear French reporters pronounce Zack's name as ''Kayshun'' on the radio about 100 times a day.

Man me too. But I thought the english reporters did it more.

Kashian. KaSSIan dammit.

 

[Rapala]

Precisely, meaning the subject has a choice. So does Kassian. So do most people who enter rehab. Obviously the choices are different (ie: serve jail time for x crime or enter rehab, versus lose job or enter rehab), but they still have a choice to make.

If I understand your inference correctly, another difference is the terms of the choice, so I should ask - do you mean that the court might order x type of program for y duration to avoid jail time? Or does the court, can the court, order the subject to successfully complete a rehab program of indefinite length?

I flag this because the terms of the first scenario (x program for y duration = automatically skip jail time) just don't apply to Kassian. He's not been given the choice to lose his job or show up for x program at the local non-profit for y duration = automatically get job back. His choice is actually to either outright lose his job, or to undertake a program/process that will be tailor made for his unique circumstances/needs, cover his living costs, etc. as/if needed, and only if he successfully completes the program might only might get his job back.

Kassian isn't being tossed over to some generic non-profit where he only has to put in face time to bypass jail. The kid will get all of the bells 'n whistles of tailor-made health and medical care, and he'll have to successfully complete the expectations made of him to get his job back. So, I kinda figure Kassian's motivation to do more than show up will be significantly higher than those who choose to serve rehab time over jail time.

But hey, who knows.

Please,
Why such fantastic speculation?
The recovery rate for an addict no matter how they arrive at a rehab or indeed which rehab they attend is low, relapse runs 50% to as high as 90%. It doesn't matter what you or I see is at stake for Zach it is ultimately up to him to decide if he's reached a bottom and is willing to tackle the reasons he found it. This disease cares nothing for an individual's position in life. So yes while we understand Zach will be provided with the very best treatment available today in no way does that guarantee an unhappy 24yr old can break that cycle.

Get well Kass.

 

[googlymoogly]

habs picked up Byron and they will have talent on the farm pushing for their chance at the big team, The longer he is out the harder he will have to try to steal a spot back from players on the team. This is a guy who the GM spoke to when the trade happened of what they expected him to act. He did not live up to expectations and could not even make it to opening night.

He injured himself from stupidity why should a Hab player give up his spot to him when he is healthy? He is done in Montreal unless we have catastrophic injuries.

 

[Whitesnake]

That's just speculation. But 'les apparences' sont dommageables.

Kassian just came in. Not right to assume any ties with anybody. If anything, the store learns he's a big truck fan...and do business in that sense. Now....it's probably should have been the agent or the Habs job to avoid such a partnership....Yet, I also remember 91,9 Radio station with Jean-Charles and whoever who did a show in their parking lot.

Seems to me that most of the time, people just don't want to know who is behind all this....But they probably should.

 

[S Bah]

While in Stage 2 Rehab, perhaps he should read a few books on the history of The Montreal Canadiens, so he actually is aware of the honor involved in wearing the uniform, representing the team, fans and Quebec.

 

[mikemcburn]

Please,
Why such fantastic speculation?
The recovery rate for an addict no matter how they arrive at a rehab or indeed which rehab they attend is low, relapse runs 50% to as high as 90%. It doesn't matter what you or I see is at stake for Zach it is ultimately up to him to decide if he's reached a bottom and is willing to tackle the reasons he found it. This disease cares nothing for an individual's position in life. So yes while we understand Zach will be provided with the very best treatment available today in no way does that guarantee an unhappy 24yr old can break that cycle.

Get well Kass.

Lol. So much for engaging in friendly discussion huh? Ignore the point(s) raised in favour of deflecting attention onto some inferred issue the other person has, and then add in some generic filler to shift the topic altogether.

Thing of it is, it was *you* who jumped in with the "fantastic speculation" that Kassian's odds to successfully rehab are slim "particularly" because you liken his circumstances to those who enter rehab under court order. All I did was question your basic premise, suggesting it's in fact entirely faulty (aka: Kassian's circumstances are not "essentially" the same as someone entering rehab under a plea agreement to escape jail time). Shrugging of the topic that *you* raised by questioning why *I* am engaging in "fantastic speculation" is kinda... well, backwards, lol.

Seriously, if you want to concede the point (that your speculation about Kassian's odds is based on a fundamentally faulty premise) and drop the topic, no worries, it was only a friendly exchange anon hockey board exchange, after all. But let's not pretend that it wasn't actually *you* engaging in the "fantastic speculation" in the first place

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I don't think it's really alcohol in Kassian's case. From what seems to be the 'underlying current' in the media, TSN and others. Beat reporters seem to know, and commentators seem to know as well, but are refraining from going further than 'substance abuse'.

Same day, TSN comes out with a story about Cocaine abuse.

Nothing else to add, your Honor.

That's pretty much what I thought. The NHL acknowledging a rise in Cocaine use comes out like an hour before the Kassian news? Then while addressing the news to the media Bergevin makes a point of criticizing Kassian's character. That doesn't seem like something Bergevin would do if it was just alcohol that Kassian was battling. This is all speculative of course, and regardless of what the problem is, Kassian needs help.

 

[Rapala]

Lol. So much for engaging in friendly discussion huh? Ignore the point(s) raised in favour of deflecting attention onto some inferred issue the other person has, and then add in some generic filler to shift the topic altogether.

Thing of it is, it was *you* who jumped in with the "fantastic speculation" that Kassian's odds to successfully rehab are slim "particularly" because you liken his circumstances to those who enter rehab under court order. All I did was question your basic premise, suggesting it's in fact entirely faulty (aka: Kassian's circumstances are not "essentially" the same as someone entering rehab under a plea agreement to escape jail time). Shrugging of the topic that *you* raised by questioning why *I* am engaging in "fantastic speculation" is kinda... well, backwards, lol.

Seriously, if you want to concede the point (that your speculation about Kassian's odds is based on a fundamentally faulty premise) and drop the topic, no worries, it was only a friendly exchange anon hockey board exchange, after all. But let's not pretend that it wasn't actually *you* engaging in the "fantastic speculation" in the first place

LOL.
What a load of wind.
The recovery and relapse rates for addicts are easily verifiable. Nobody is speculating on odds.
They are what they are. I'm telling you from experience the success rate is even lower for court appointed cases. I've given you one of a number of different reasons why. Young addicts and offenders just aren't usually ready to admit defeat.