News Article: Zack Kassian placed in stage 2 Part II - Mod Warning in Post#1

[Rapala]

The problem with this system and notion is that no one ever "overcomes" their addictions. It's always there. You constantly have to be aware. No one is ever cured of addiction. It's a disease that requires a life-time of treatment.

Who's to say that playing hockey with a team filled with close support while getting treatment wouldn't be a good option and source of stability for him?

Exactly right.
If Kass begins working on his baggage he will be as "cured" as it gets whether its 2 months, 3 months or even 10 years after the fact. I can't believe our team and doctors wouldn't be aware of how it works and give Zach every chance at salvaging what everyone thought would be a promising career. So there is no reason for him not to start training with his team once his fracture has healed.

 

[Rapala]

I don't agree. MB gave him an opportunity and he blew it. Addiction or not, Bergevin isn't responsible for salvaging this guy's career. He's got a hockey team to run.

MB had to be aware of his multiple stabs in the stage 1 program and that no amount of talking to would amount to a hill of beans in his case. Did he make sure Zach was in a program and following it? Did he provide a support group to facilitate his move to this city and help insulate him from its temptations?
Like you said MB has a hockey team to run and all this was the result of a very poor hockey decision by a GM who should know better. Bringing a known substance abuser into the fold has additional responsibilities attached to it. So if all the preventative measures were taken and this is the end result then I agree Zach has had his chance. If not we need to give him one more kick at the can.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

why the hell wouldn't we give him a chance to try and recover and prove his worth?

It would be dumb not to. Why give up on a kid with that much talent? Why not support the kid instead of just shaming him and giving up on him? If it really is a disease (which seems to be backed up by scientific fact) it would be reprehensible to not lend your support.

Who knows what's really going on behind the scenes but I'd rather management be a little more delicate than some tough love approach. Like I said if it's a disease then would you shame and turn your back on a guy with cancer? What's the difference?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

why the hell wouldn't we give him a chance to try and recover and prove his worth?

It would be dumb not to. Why give up on a kid with that much talent? Why not support the kid instead of just shaming him and giving up on him? If it really is a disease (which seems to be backed up by scientific fact) it would be reprehensible to not lend your support.

Who knows what's really going on behind the scenes but I'd rather management be a little more delicate than some tough love approach. Like I said if it's a disease then would you shame and turn your back on a guy with cancer? What's the difference?

The difference between substance abuse and cancer is fairly obvious. Not to mention that the idea of substance abuse being classified as a disease is controversial itself.

I wouldn't be against giving him another opportunity but I don't expect it to happen and I'm fine with it. He had his chance. The Montreal Canadiens are supporting him financially and the league is supporting him with programs. That is the extent of our obligation. Anything beyond that is subject to the grace of Montreal management and how much they think Kassian can help us. It's not our responsibility to find a roster spot for this guy.

MB had to be aware of his multiple stabs in the stage 1 program and that no amount of talking to would amount to a hill of beans in his case. Did he make sure Zach was in a program and following it? Did he provide a support group to facilitate his move to this city and help insulate him from its temptations?
Like you said MB has a hockey team to run and all this was the result of a very poor hockey decision by a GM who should know better. Bringing a known substance abuser into the fold has additional responsibilities attached to it. So if all the preventative measures were taken and this is the end result then I agree Zach has had his chance. If not we need to give him one more kick at the can.

I don't fault MB for taking a shot on Kassian. It was a low risk move that doesn't seem to have worked out.

I will fault him for not getting a legit scorer though. He's had a lot of time to do that and has instead gone into the bargain bin for reclamation projects. Those kinds of moves are fine but we need more than that.

 

[Stan]

The difference between substance abuse and cancer is fairly obvious. Not to mention that the idea of substance abuse being classified as a disease is controversial itself.

I disagree. It's not really controversial within the medical community. Would you call depression or schizophrenia "not a disease". I mean....this is part of the stigma and overall lack of understanding.

I don't think we owe Kassian a roster spot.....but I do think we owe him an opportunity to get better and a chance to earn a roster spot. I suspect what others do...no effort was made to support/insulate zach during his transition....which was a mistake. These points are high risk times for people with addictions as their environment is completely changed and destabilized. In other words....we didn't really give him a chance.

 

[Habsrule]

Even though Kassian may have screwed himself over I am still happy with the trade. I would rather have a GM who trades a declining player for a potential much better one. And I do like Prust.

What it boils down to is would Prust be an upgrade over the current Habs fourth line wingers? DSP, Flynn and Byron. Maybe yes, maybe no.

 

[Wats]

Basically suspending him removes him from being a distraction from the team. He's injured anyways (foot/nose) so it wasn't like he was going to return any time soon. He could be a deadline deal type after trade deadline depending on how he takes this program.

 

[Native]

I feel for Kassian, and the countless others who suffer from dependence and addiction. I truly hope he can be one of those that not only overcomes it, but also finds success afterwards. His enormously big advantage vs us ordinary people is that he is a Montreal Canadien. I just hope our organization walks the walk and follows through to the end.

From what we hear, Montreal knew of his history of problems (which may explain the addition of the draft pick) and yet, we still made the trade.

As stated, MG was visibly upset, talked about character and judgement. When he took over, he hired numerous ex-players because of their personal knowledge and experience of living the life of an NHL player. The transition, temptations, professionalism, etc how to make it. We've invested millions in these guys to help guide our players towards the proper path. Where did we fail?

With all this renewed investment in development, the history of the Habs, the importance and honor of our organization, and how this all instills those intangible traits related to being a Canadien, IMHO, we need to follow through with Kassian.

Buffalo and Vancouver couldn't handle him. We took him in knowing full well of his issues. If we jettison him at years end, after our "legal contractual obligations" has expired, then to me, it's a black mark on us. All this talk about character, honor means absolutely nothing if we can't take care of our own.

NHL players are like Hollywood stars, especially here in Montreal. They have personal assistants, shadowing them, catering to their needs. Why can't we have one for Kassian? Someone to keep him in line making sure he sticks to his medical protocol, filter him from those moments that he may waiver from that fine line he desperately requires? We have rookies (eg Gally) that lived with a vet to help them, nurture them, keep them in line.

Pac's is the captain now (I love him, as i do Subby). Step up. Take him in. You talk and praise about Beliveau being such an inspiration etc. Then step up and be like him, go beyond and do what's best for your teammate. Being captain is not just a "C" on your jersey. Show people you know that it means so much more.

We've invested in Kassian, all this talk about "character", what it means to be a Hab, and yet, you know he has a big problem and don't take the necessary steps to provide additional protection for him against himself? Then, when he falters, you act all upset and then throw him under the bus when he messes up. To me, its hypocritical.

This isn't just about hockey or "business." MB, you took him in, he's your responsibility. Your turn to show this character you speak of.

 

[CoupeStanley]

It's always gonna be a problem for him but we might be able to get him focused for the best half season of his carreer.

Who knows, I would give him another shot...

 

[CaptainBenn]

We've invested in Kassian, all this talk about "character", what it means to be a Hab, and yet, you know he has a big problem and don't take the necessary steps to provide additional protection for him against himself? Then, when he falters, you act all upset and then throw him under the bus when he messes up. To me, its hypocritical.

You dont know if they took "necessary steps" or not
Blaming MB for Kassian's personal decisions (grown man) is very weird
Him being addicted doesnt make him non responsible, I cringed when I read a poster comparing it to schizophrenia....
Kassian knows 1) what he is doing is wrong 2) can judge the nature and quality of what he is doing
So stop defending him like its MB's fault

 

[Toro]

Kassian is suspended by the league not montreal....its part of the program he is on...
When the medical doctors caring for him deem him ready to resume playing, montreal will have a choice to make.
1. Keep him and give him another shot..
2. Trade or dump him...

I choose choice 1. Its that simple really..

 

[Rapala]

You dont know if they took "necessary steps" or not
Blaming MB for Kassian's personal decisions (grown man) is very weird
Him being addicted doesnt make him non responsible, I cringed when I read a poster comparing it to schizophrenia....
Kassian knows 1) what he is doing is wrong 2) can judge the nature and quality of what he is doing
So stop defending him like its MB's fault

You are absolutely correct we don't know what steps were taken and we probably never will.
The NHL and its members take out a big broom and find a nice big rug to sweep everything under.
They have long applauded themselves on their sqeaky clean image and this is how they intend to keep it. This is part of the problem.

As for the rest your post you couldn't be further from the truth if you tried. An habitual substance abuser is indeed a Jekyl and Hyde personality. There is no right or wrong and as for judging the nature and quality of an action pfui. Unless you are an addict or live with an addict or treat addiction, you might want to refrain from trying to understand how their minds work. They can be viable productive members of society one minute and even for days on end and then one thought or trigger can place them beyond help. As for blaming MB for Kassian's actions no one did that. They brought into question his judgement.
He just has to know better.

 

[Figaro95*]

The difference between substance abuse and cancer is fairly obvious. Not to mention that the idea of substance abuse being classified as a disease is controversial itself.

I wouldn't be against giving him another opportunity but I don't expect it to happen and I'm fine with it. He had his chance. The Montreal Canadiens are supporting him financially and the league is supporting him with programs. That is the extent of our obligation. Anything beyond that is subject to the grace of Montreal management and how much they think Kassian can help us. It's not our responsibility to find a roster spot for this guy.

I don't fault MB for taking a shot on Kassian. It was a low risk move that doesn't seem to have worked out.

I will fault him for not getting a legit scorer though. He's had a lot of time to do that and has instead gone into the bargain bin for reclamation projects. Those kinds of moves are fine but we need more than that.

I don't think the habs will give up on him. We've all heard the Montreal Canadiens are family, one of the reasons that make this organization great. You don't give up on family, if he's willing to put the work and energy in to bettering himself, I believe he will become a member of the Canadiens.

 

[mustardnight*]

To be honest, this may have been a blessing in disguise for him and the habs.

If it's truly a problem, and he can overcome it, his life and career can get back on track. It's now obvious why he was traded and that if this event didn't happen he would probably not be effective for Montreal.

 

[mitchmagic]

The difference between substance abuse and cancer is fairly obvious. Not to mention that the idea of substance abuse being classified as a disease is controversial itself.

I wouldn't be against giving him another opportunity but I don't expect it to happen and I'm fine with it. He had his chance. The Montreal Canadiens are supporting him financially and the league is supporting him with programs. That is the extent of our obligation. Anything beyond that is subject to the grace of Montreal management and how much they think Kassian can help us. It's not our responsibility to find a roster spot for this guy.

I don't fault MB for taking a shot on Kassian. It was a low risk move that doesn't seem to have worked out.

I will fault him for not getting a legit scorer though. He's had a lot of time to do that and has instead gone into the bargain bin for reclamation projects. Those kinds of moves are fine but we need more than that.

Addiction is classified as a disease and mental health issue though.

The difference between substance abuse and cancer isn't entirely obvious or vast. The major difference is that the symptoms of one of the diseases causes so much more harm to the people surrounding you.

Give the guy a chance to play hockey. We know he can do it.

 

[studDUGY]

I'm kind of out of the loop concerning Kassian. Is there a possibility for him to come back in, say, December? Or even in this season at all?

I really like how Flynn is playing but I firmly believe Kassian would make an even better 4th line.

 

[NobleSix]

I'm kind of out of the loop concerning Kassian. Is there a possibility for him to come back in, say, December? Or even in this season at all?

I'm really like how Flynn is playing but I firmly believe Kassian would make an even better 4th line.

Yes, that is very possible. It all depends on how he progresses through the program, and whether the doctors clear him.

Bergevin has the final say of course. So even if he passes through the program with flying colours, if MB doesn't want him around the team then he wont be.

 

[LePoche69]

MB had to be aware of his multiple stabs in the stage 1 program and that no amount of talking to would amount to a hill of beans in his case. Did he make sure Zach was in a program and following it? Did he provide a support group to facilitate his move to this city and help insulate him from its temptations?
Like you said MB has a hockey team to run and all this was the result of a very poor hockey decision by a GM who should know better. Bringing a known substance abuser into the fold has additional responsibilities attached to it. So if all the preventative measures were taken and this is the end result then I agree Zach has had his chance. If not we need to give him one more kick at the can.

No. It has been said that a player doesn't even have to warn his own team that he's entering Stage 1. It is part of the collective agreement. It has to become a known fact only in Stage 2. It is possible that even Vancouver didn't know about Kassian being in Stage 1.

And by the way, Montreal Expos took a similar gamble when they sign Dennis Martinez after he had many problems with alcohol. They sign him on the basis that he followed a program and respected it. They never regret it as he was their best pitcher for many years, and a leader and role model for many young players the team promoted after that.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

why the hell wouldn't we give him a chance to try and recover and prove his worth?

It would be dumb not to. Why give up on a kid with that much talent? Why not support the kid instead of just shaming him and giving up on him? If it really is a disease (which seems to be backed up by scientific fact) it would be reprehensible to not lend your support.

Who knows what's really going on behind the scenes but I'd rather management be a little more delicate than some tough love approach. Like I said if it's a disease then would you shame and turn your back on a guy with cancer? What's the difference?

If Kassian recovers and stays clean long enough for the Habs to win the Cup in 2016, it's worth it even if he relapses after that. What did he cost the Habs (besides angst)? Brandon Prust, by now now is shop-worn.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I feel for Kassian, and the countless others who suffer from dependence and addiction. I truly hope he can be one of those that not only overcomes it, but also finds success afterwards. His enormously big advantage vs us ordinary people is that he is a Montreal Canadien. I just hope our organization walks the walk and follows through to the end.

From what we hear, Montreal knew of his history of problems (which may explain the addition of the draft pick) and yet, we still made the trade.

As stated, MG was visibly upset, talked about character and judgement. When he took over, he hired numerous ex-players because of their personal knowledge and experience of living the life of an NHL player. The transition, temptations, professionalism, etc how to make it. We've invested millions in these guys to help guide our players towards the proper path. Where did we fail?

With all this renewed investment in development, the history of the Habs, the importance and honor of our organization, and how this all instills those intangible traits related to being a Canadien, IMHO, we need to follow through with Kassian.

Buffalo and Vancouver couldn't handle him. We took him in knowing full well of his issues. If we jettison him at years end, after our "legal contractual obligations" has expired, then to me, it's a black mark on us. All this talk about character, honor means absolutely nothing if we can't take care of our own.

NHL players are like Hollywood stars, especially here in Montreal. They have personal assistants, shadowing them, catering to their needs. Why can't we have one for Kassian? Someone to keep him in line making sure he sticks to his medical protocol, filter him from those moments that he may waiver from that fine line he desperately requires? We have rookies (eg Gally) that lived with a vet to help them, nurture them, keep them in line.

Pac's is the captain now (I love him, as i do Subby). Step up. Take him in. You talk and praise about Beliveau being such an inspiration etc. Then step up and be like him, go beyond and do what's best for your teammate. Being captain is not just a "C" on your jersey. Show people you know that it means so much more.

We've invested in Kassian, all this talk about "character", what it means to be a Hab, and yet, you know he has a big problem and don't take the necessary steps to provide additional protection for him against himself? Then, when he falters, you act all upset and then throw him under the bus when he messes up. To me, its hypocritical.

This isn't just about hockey or "business." MB, you took him in, he's your responsibility. Your turn to show this character you speak of.

great post. I'd really like to see us take the more sensitive approach and really give this guy the support he needs. For him firstly and for us as well.

Kassian is suspended by the league not montreal....its part of the program he is on...
When the medical doctors caring for him deem him ready to resume playing, montreal will have a choice to make.
1. Keep him and give him another shot..
2. Trade or dump him...

I choose choice 1. Its that simple really..

It's that simple for me. It would be dumb not to. What's the worst that can happen? I really don't think he'd single-handedly ruin our locker room chemistry. Him replacing Weise on the 3rd would just be insane.

 

[Ezpz]

No. It has been said that a player doesn't even have to warn his own team that he's entering Stage 1. It is part of the collective agreement. It has to become a known fact only in Stage 2. It is possible that even Vancouver didn't know about Kassian being in Stage 1.

And by the way, Montreal Expos took a similar gamble when they sign Dennis Martinez after he had many problems with alcohol. They sign him on the basis that he followed a program and respected it. They never regret it as he was their best pitcher for many years, and a leader and role model for many young players the team promoted after that.

Vancouver went to the media and said he was stage 1 multiple times. Bergevin also said he was aware before making the trade.

 

[OnTheRun]

The Habs don't owe anything to Kassian.

It's really up to the team to decide if they have a use for him or not. Its that simple.

If they decide to suspend him for the rest of the year, that's fine. If they decide to take him back, that's fine too.

 

[Runner77]

The deal was space under the cap plus a 5th and letting go a player who no longer fit the Habs plans.

Kassian, he was the "conditional" side of the deal. The odds were stacked against him succeeding given what was known about him at the time the deal was made, so Bergevin had to have envisaged that even with Kassian not playing one game for the Habs, the salary relief and pick were more than fair compensation.

Without Kassian being a factor for the Habs (assuming he isn't back), Bergevin didn't make out as a bandit, but neither did he get fleeced.

 

[BLONG7]

Hopefully he gets the help needed...he is also lucky to this point, that the Habs are playing well, and the press are not looking for any negatives.

 

[Stjonnypopo]

The Habs don't owe anything to Kassian.

It's really up to the team to decide if they have a use for him or not. Its that simple.

If they decide to suspend him for the rest of the year, that's fine. If they decide to take him back, that's fine too.

They obviously don't owe him anything but it would be stupid to not give him a chance. If he comes through this better and stronger than when he got here and proves to be an effective player than it was a good gamble. If he continues to struggle at least we gave him a chance, and shedded some salary at the same time.

Bergevin did one of his patented low-risk high-reward moves and we're still waiting to see if it pans out.